cMM2 - STRANDED (easy level, tough map)

[sabo]

You know I've never added workers much in the beginning of a game, probably becauase I usually don't have that many. I never used it much when I was a new civ player and playing on Regent and Monarchy, but now that I play mostly emporer and sometimes deity or Sid on rare occasions I should revisit that strategy.

 

[danz]

You know I've never added workers much in the beginning of a game, probably becauase I usually don't have that many. I never used it much when I was a new civ player and playing on Regent and Monarchy, but now that I play mostly emporer and sometimes deity or Sid on rare occasions I should revisit that strategy.

Sorry if that was confusing, I meant to say "add 2 workers" in the sense that I had them as an asset to develop the land and build roads so that settlers can do more settling and less hiking. I think that getting every city connected to the capital and making settlers walk faster is much more important than an extra population point... unless you have a few cities that have an obscene food surplus and others that stalled. We're not in this situation at all. Maybe when the wheats come online... we'll need to grow our wonder-produceing city fast. Now there's a thought...

 

[sabo]

Yeah I do that too Danz, have you noticed though that it seems strange. Sometimes you'll have two cities and the non-capitol city will have more disruption until you road it too the capitol, even though you have no luxuries yet. It could be my imagination though.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The reason is: Not connected to the capital means higher corruption (please don't ask for %). Higher corruption means less Luxury tax; if there is less than 1gpt put into entertainment, lux doesn't do anything.

Here, it simply means for later: Any city must make 10 uncorrupted net commerce, then 10% Lux will result in one happy face everywhere.
That's why I put my capital with access to the gold hill; that way, the capital and the 'double-fish' city N could grow to size 7 with Temple, 2 MP and 20% Luxury Tax.

 

[sabo]

ah-ha... makes sense to me, thanks Doc!

 

[sabo]

Look at my post count, which one of you guys are going to cause me to hit 3K?

 

[jkp1187]

I was struggling with this, since I so like to take advantage of Philosophy, but I thought that the odds of us getting it first very low. We have no idea what shape the rest of the world is in. I'm not even sure we can build the GL before a wonder cascade takes it away.

You know, I've found that I've almost always been able to get to Philosophy first on Regent/Monarch as long as I gun for that and keep science at 90%-100%, regardless of contact with other civs (as long as that civ's starting techs were appropriate). What's our tech situation like right now?


I agree, though, not sure if we're going to be able to get the Great Lib first without an SGL. Any opinions on whether or not we should try for the Lighthouse? I think it might be a good idea....

That city placement map looks good to me.

 

[carlosMM]

You know, I've found that I've almost always been able to get to Philosophy first on Regent/Monarch as long as I gun for that and keep science at 90%-100%, regardless of contact with other civs (as long as that civ's starting techs were appropriate). What's our tech situation like right now?

I lost out as Sapin twice in refcent weeks, despite on case of settling both the capital and the second city on gold hills. AIs must have popped techs up to writing from huts. The replay showed 2 of them popping cities quite far from their homelands, too, so their scouts gave them more than their moneys worth.

Both cases, I was about 3 turnss from Philo when Mausoleum construction was started.

sabo, what do you think about this? (come on, get the 3k!)

 

[steviejay]

hey, sorry for having to take pretty much all my 24hours, I was at college 9 till 4 then working 5 till 10.

So consider this my got it

So what is the plan of advancement? Build the rest of our cities, cultivate the land and try to get......... what wonders we trying for? We're on MM so I'm assuming we're going to try for The Great Lighthouse?

 

[carlosMM]

We can still change research, too, as we have IIRC 1 turn only invested.

I think MMing and a shot at Great Lighthouse, preferably NOT in our capital (must check on production of other cities though), then a switch to Great Lib if Lighthouse fails? Otherwise, Great Lib right after Great Lighthouse I'd say.

 

[sabo]

I like Carlos's idea, I too have never had much problem getting BOTH wonders using the philosphy sling shot, I've never been able to get all the big THREE wonders though on any level (GLighthouse, Glib, and Pyramids) I supposed it's possible with a SGL though. We need that lighthouse first of all, and the Glib if possible, if it was a higher Diff. level game I would probably switch those two around, but since the AI doesn't seem to like to research Literacy I don't think we'll have any problems with a little pre-building.

OUUUUU, wow, LOOK, one more post count and I'll reach 3k... hehehehe

 

[steviejay]

so change science to Philo right away and try to get that. If we'resuccessful with that get MM as our free tech and start on literature. Begin building The Great Lighthouse in a city not our capital and try to get that at best possible speed. If we can't get it because another civ got it then switch to TGL? That what I'm understanding from this yeah? 20 turns?

I'll play in a few hours, just one more class to go. Try to get it done by early evening (my time, GMT)

 

[carlosMM]

I'd say we can even go for great Lighthosue in the capital IF the philo gamble succeeds. Watch out for who completes what wonder when!

 

[jkp1187]

Can we start a pre-build in a non-capital city first?

 

[carlosMM]

Can we start a pre-build in a non-capital city first?

that, anyways! We are going for two wonders, and so a palace prebuild is a must, even if it 'only' gets turned into a FP. Maybe we can also cash Mausoleum?

 

[danz]

that, anyways! We are going for two wonders, and so a palace prebuild is a must, even if it 'only' gets turned into a FP. Maybe we can also cash Mausoleum?

I strongly urge against going for Philosophy. We have no way of knowing what the AI's are trading and popping. All we know is that we're not trading or popping any techs ourselves. It would really suck if we learned Philosophy and got absolutely nothing out of it. Map Making gets us harbors, which our 100% coastal cities will desperately need to continue growing while still generating income and science for us. The possibility of getting the Great Lighthouse is a possible bonus (not even probable, only possible), it's not even the main reason. The only other viable alternative is to go for Literature right away and pray like hell that we can build the Great Library first. If we fail, at least we'll be able to build libraries, which will get us faster science and more culture. If we research Philosophy there is a very high probability that we'll get absolutely nothing out of it. This is a big risk that we really don't need to take.

 

[Keiji]

I would agree with Danz. Despite the fact that I love to take the philosophy slingshot his arguments make enough sense to convince me. Getting mapmaking would both enhance the productiveness of our island through harbors and increase our chances to get a ship to other civs. Getting contacts is our top priority in my opinion.

 

[sabo]

Sorry Danz and Keiji but I have to disagree, I mean what good does the Glib do for you if you don't know anyone anyway? We need to meet these civs first. Remember Doc said he had sent out about 30 galleys and got no contact from anyone until a caravel sailed by. Sure Doc said he was insanely behind in Techs by the time he met other civs but remember, he was playing on Emporer level. Of course you will be backwards with no contacts on that level. This is a monarch game, the AI does not like to research Literacy because it's a dead end tech to them. I've seen the AI's already in the middle ages when I was the only one with Literacy still in the ancient age. Then you sell it to them one turn b4 the Glib anyway, even if we don't get the Glib it's a level that with a little tech brokering we could catch up anyway, but at the end of the day the Glighthouse is something our civ desperately needs the most, we'd hate to go for the GLib and not able to contact anyone anyway so we have to research ourselves anyway. I'd hate to see some landlocked civ on the other continent with only one seaport city get the Glighthouse. That would probably hurt us the most by waiting 300 years to contact anyone. I'm sure Carlos agrees with me, anyone else see my point?????

Oh BTW Danz and Keiji, you get the prize for causing me to post my 3000th post

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Minneapolis, City of Lakes
Posts: 3,000

 

[danz]

Sabo, I don't think that getting the Great Library and not having contact with anyone is such a bad thing. Once we do establish contact, we'll IMMEDIATELY catch up to every known technology! This only INCREASES the value of the Great Library. The Great Lighthouse is not a bad wonder at all, but it doesn't guarantee anything. We have so much ocean between us and other continent that most of our galleys will sink, anyway.

We could build the Great Library, build temples and libraries in every town, and concentrating on building up culture and money while other civs are researching everything for us and warring with each other. When we do meet them, we'll have nice culture and a spotless reputation. We could go for a cultural win, diplomacy, or even use our island fortress as a staging point for a massive invasion.

I don't see any problems with the Great Library at all. The only issue I have is with Philosophy. It's a required tech, and someone WILL get it before we do, netting us a big bagel, zilch, nada...

 

[sabo]

I agree with you on the philosphy idea, it's a gamble. And I also see your point on the Glib, but I would hate to see anyone steal the Glighthouse from us. I think that since it's only a monarch level game, even if we don't get the Glib if we have the Glighthouse we can meet other civs sooner and be able to catch up anyway