Coats cause inequality...

[Valka D'Ur]

It's not about making kids unhappy, it's about people being forced to change how they live their lives for no other reason than to spare the feelings of others. If a kid is seriously feeling anxiety over what clothes their peers have (as the article in the OP claims), then that kid's parents have failed him/her. They failed their kid by not teaching them to be happy with what they have and not to worry about having all the fancy things in life.

What people here seem to be missing is that it isn't only that "have-not" kids envy the "have" kids. It's also that there are "have" kids who take great pleasure in rubbing the other kids' noses in the fact that they can't have nice things (or at least not as nice as the Rich Kids).

I wasn't one of those kids who coveted my classmates' fancy things. I actually was mostly fine with what I had*, and if my classmates sneered at some of the second-hand clothes or home-made clothes I wore to school, that said much more about them than about me. It's what was affordable back then.

*After enduring three years of hell in junior high over clothes, I asked my grandmother for some blue jeans to wear when I started high school. I was not prepared to put up with three more years of bullying and ostracism for such a stupid reason.

My first year of college was the last year that I ever wore jeans. I noticed that the unwritten dress code seemed to be more relaxed, as students and instructors wore whatever they wanted. So I went back to my previous style of dress and have been comfortable ever since. And if anyone objects, they have my permission not to look.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, -25 (let alone -40c) are not identified as real temperatures for me, cause i freeze at -10.
Though -20 happens, from time to time, a little to the north of Thessalonike.

 

[Silurian]

Though -20 happens, from time to time, a little to the north of Thessalonike.

That s true but the snow is nice if you don't have to work in it.

 

[warpus]

You are arguing that because you can not solve all problems you should not solve some.

I've said right away, if you check my first post about this, that I don't think this is a good solution to the problem at all. If it's not the first post, it will be the second.

My position is that there are far better things you can do to try to fix this problem. This is like being hungry so you get an enema. You're sort of on the right track but not really.

If this were simply a part of a uniform code that wasn't an attempt to "stop bullying" then I would just say "okay, school uniform code, whatever"

 

[Silurian]

I've said right away, if you check my first post about this, that I don't think this is a good solution to the problem at all. If it's not the first post, it will be the second.

My position is that there are far better things you can do to try to fix this problem. This is like being hungry so you get an enema. You're sort of on the right track but not really.

If this were simply a part of a uniform code that wasn't an attempt to "stop bullying" then I would just say "okay, school uniform code, whatever"

Well it is part of a uniform code.
I think it is good that they give reasons for the change.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Well, -25 (let alone -40c) are not identified as real temperatures for me, cause i freeze at -10.
Though -20 happens, from time to time, a little to the north of Thessalonike.

-10 is still fall jacket weather for me (though I wear warmer shirts and maybe a sweater underneath; by that point I also wear shoes and socks outside). I keep a toque, and two different types of gloves in my coat pockets, so am prepared if they should be needed.

So many people who complain about being cold aren't properly dressed. I saw a teenage girl shivering at the bus stop one night and she was complaining about being cold. I was very tempted to tell her that if she would wear pants instead of a miniskirt, boots instead of flimsy shoes, do up her coat (it was unzipped), put on a sweater, and wear a toque and gloves or mittens, she wouldn't be cold.

That said, if the wind chill is really bad, I'll upgrade to a winter coat. Wind chill can be brutal.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Commodore, you fail to appreciate how accute the barb's can be, when it's about your (percieved) lack of wealth at school, this isn't minor stuff man, if you're the "poor kid" then no one treats you like a normal person, speaking from personal experience.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Manfred, you don't think I was a student as well, living through bullying, and seeing it firsthand? Your experience is not unique here.

[in reply to you personally]Presumably you went to school at some point... I thought this was kind of a general experience?

?

That's the point! You ban expensive jackets, kids will bully others over shoes.

Shoes are probably already covered by the uniform policy

You ban pricy shoes, kids will bully others over what gaming system they each own. You ban the discussion of gaming systems, kids will bully based on each other's haircuts. You ban some haircuts, they will bully others over what sort of bike they have... You ban that, kids will bully each other over.. almost anything you can think of.

Yes but the vasy majority of that bullying would still have happened in addition to the coat-based bullying. It's not like children will just bully over one exclusive issue and only pick the one that's on the top of the stack. Hence limit the opportunities.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I'm surprised that you managed to go through all of secondary school with no uniform whatsoever, Manfred.

A friend of mine apparently managed to go to a school with no uniform requirements, but even then he said that they mandated no designer clothing and no logos on their clothes.

Well I wouldn't say that a few clothing rules constitutes a uniform policy. Having said that I don't recall any specific clothing rules either, but there might have been some.

No, it's not. Telling someone they can't wear they clothes they want to wear simply because it might make some poor kids feel bad about themselves is simply outrageous. It's just as ridiculous as telling girls they can't wear certain clothing items at school because those items might be a "distraction" for the boys.

I mean... are people just deliberately ignoring the bit about it being the children with the expensive gear being the ones doing the bullying? This isn't about the poor kids just feeling envious.

 

[Arakhor]

I was at secondary school in the first half of the Nineties, when it was more fashionable to have less formal uniforms, but even then we had a set jumper, polo shirt and the ubiquitous charcoal trousers.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I was at secondary school in the first half of the Nineties, when it was more fashionable to have less formal uniforms, but even then we had a set jumper, polo shirt and the ubiquitous charcoal trousers.

Well, sucks to be you I guess

 

[rah]

Back in the stone ages when I was in High School, based on experience, all you had to be was a geek and you got bullied. Or just bad at sports and you got bullied. Whatever you try to do in terms of restrictions, they'll find a reason. With zero tolerance regulations you can probably reduce it some but I doubt you can eliminate it. Teenagers will be cruel.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Schools here do provide shoes, food, and underwear to students who need them. Also shirts, pants, coats, hats, and gloves; feminine hygiene products; pencils; paper; books; and many other things that some students' families cannot provide, whether due to poverty or addiction.

Schools are not parents. If the child lacks an adult functioning as a parent, we're veering outside the realm of this thread's topic and into discussion about at what point loss of custody makes sense.

Kindly do not put words on my keyboard. I never said schools should provide shoes, food, or underwear.

I did not claim "Valka D'Ur said that schools should provide shoes, food, and underwear". I do claim that the same reasoning you presented would argue for these similarly, and by extension that your argument should include these (and many more things) in order to be self-consistent/rational.

I do see your point about food vs pads though. The problem is that these things and many more have a direct impact on how effectively students learn, and it's not clear where you're drawing the line.

Note that this is all tangential to the complete nonsense in the OP article, which has nothing to do with providing something children otherwise can't get. Rather it's about banning something over hurt feelings w/o coherent basis, an action I do not respect.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I do see your point about food vs pads though. The problem is that these things and many more have a direct impact on how effectively students learn, and it's not clear where you're drawing the line.

Of course it isn't, since you've never had the experience of having to worry about such things.

 

[Arakhor]

Note that this is all tangential to the complete nonsense in the OP article, which has nothing to do with providing something children otherwise can't get. Rather it's about banning something over hurt feelings w/o coherent basis, an action I do not respect.

I'm sure the school in question will be more than happy to reverse their decision now that they've lost your respect.

 

[rah]

Of course it isn't, since you've never had the experience of having to worry about such things.

Because of course, nothing can possibly be known without personally experienced it. I'd expect better from a science fiction fan.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm sure the school in question will be more than happy to reverse their decision now that they've lost your respect.

I don't see how quoted is relevant to the thread. Nothing anybody says here is likely to have a significant impact on the school's choices.

Of course it isn't, since you've never had the experience of having to worry about such things.

Apparently it isn't clear for you either, since you're still not drawing said line.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Because of course, nothing can possibly be known without personally experienced it. I'd expect better from a science fiction fan.

So because I'm a science fiction fan, that should automatically make me know what it's like to be male, particularly with regard to male reproductive health problems as though I'd experienced them myself?

That's not a claim I would ever make, and it would be nice if the male forum members here would stop claiming that they know what it's like for women to experience particular female reproductive health problems.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So because I'm a science fiction fan, that should automatically make me know what it's like to be male, particularly with regard to male reproductive health problems as though I'd experienced them myself?

That's not a claim I would ever make, and it would be nice if the male forum members here would stop claiming that they know what it's like for women to experience particular female reproductive health problems.

Who's making such a claim?

 

[Silurian]

No one!