Come again?

[Aphex_Twin]

Interesting site. How did Theodosian issue decrees before he was born in 346 CE, much less before he became emperor in 379?

Christianity existed outside these events. Christianity was dominating by 391 when intolerance towards other religions was tacitly approved by Theodosian. I fail to see how the Inquisition helped it, and the Conquistadors were accompanied by missionaries. I don't think Christianity would look much different today.

My mistake, I apologize about the dates, but the facts stay. You converted or you died.

 

[Smidlee]

What chance would Christianity have had if:

The Roman Empire would have not outlawed all the other religions.
The Inquisition would not have existed.
The Spanish conquistadors would not have tried to spread it.

But you have failed to realize christianity wasn't the Roman religion in the beginning. Having you ever heard the saying " If you can beat them then join them." and this is exactly what the Romans did. Roman empire outlawed all other religions including christianity before the 4th century so this empire didn't change it's practices. This showed the impact that Jesus Christ and his followers had on the Roman Empire in their day.
Some of the traditions in RCC isn't found in the scriptures since the Romans combine their Roman religion in with christianity. (Mass for an example) the Roman high priest became the Pope. the christians believe that they could win the Romans ( those in power) to become true christians but it was a bad mistake since the exact opposide happen which finally produces the ugly Inquisition and Crusades given christianity a bad name.

 

[King Alexander]

My mistake, I apologize about the dates, but the facts stay. You converted or you died.

I can't agree more with you

I don't know if you've noticed it, by I come from a country that suffered the most after the split of the Roman Empire into Western and Eastern. Why?

Here is why:

1) 1/3 of the Greek population were slaughtered by the so-called "Saints" Emperors of that kingdom, so they'd be forced to ACCEPT and ADOPT christianity: now, what was the name of that empire?

2) All the priest did, was to close all the philosophical schools in Athens and destroy as many statues/ancient documents they could and in general destroy all the ancient culture- it was trully the real beginning of the dark ages.

3) The word "Helenes" that means Greeks, was a forbidden word and anyone who dared and said it were executed. Worms had more value for the new empire than Helenes and they showed it with every opportunity.

 

[King Alexander]

Based on the criteria you've set, I would not accept this individual as JC2. Plus, based on this criteria, extremely few people would have accepted him as JC1 back in the day. It took followers, zealots, believers, and his acolytes to constantly profess this individual, eventually building a religion and following about the man. It is easier for people to be converted once the religion exists.

Very well said. Even at that time, his followers had a hard time to believe him: he was forced to make miracles so his own students would believe in his words.

Can anyone decline this? You know it's true.

 

[cgannon64]

If Jesus returned I don't think it would be the same way. Meaning, he would come and it will be the end, not the same mostly quiet sacrifice.

Of course, if you rephrase the question to ask: If you knew the original Jesus was fake but someone came who claimed to be the Messiah and he had the same credibility Jesus had, would you follow him? then its harder to answer.

 

[Manverulin]

For these type of situations, you have to think, "What would Jesus do?"

I wonder how the Pope would respond to this...

 

[Aphex_Twin]

@Smidlee
What denomination of Christianity are you?

 

[Smidlee]

Discipline is another human concept that people project onto god. We humans resort to pain as a means of behavior modification. If god was inexplicably inclined to modify someones behavior, he has much subtler and more effective methods at his disposal.

Yet who to say some of our human concept didn't come from God himself. pain isn't necessary evil or bad as you think . This is where you and I have different view points about smoking pot. Pot and alcohol numbs you and lesses life pains yet we grow more though pain and sorrow than when everything going our way. This is one reason I disagree with your idea that pot is harmless. ( Pain killers do have their place and uses )

Of course I hate pain and suffering as much as anyone. Still I look back a time in my life that though the trials I learn the tough lessons in life. We prune trees and vines which at first look as only damaging the tree/vine then later reveals that this cause the tree/vine to produce much fruit. So at first taking my belt off and inflicting pain on my child behind (for the right reasons)may at first seem damaging but later in the child's life will produce more fruit.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Smidlee, I agree, that through suffering we achieve clarity. Happiness and pleasure are fleeting illusions. However I disagree that god increases our suffering in order to educate us. He has no need to do this, we're obviously quite capable of inflicting suffering on ourselves.

 

[Iggy]

Of course, if you rephrase the question to ask: If you knew the original Jesus was fake but someone came who claimed to be the Messiah and he had the same credibility Jesus had, would you follow him? then its harder to answer.

As a Christian what would your approach to this question be? I gather it is one which the Jewish faith must have considered as well.

 

[cgannon64]

As a Christian what would your approach to this question be? I gather it is one which the Jewish faith must have considered as well.

Well, if Jesus convinced me to worship him and I lived 2000 years after, I think he would do it again if I had the chance to meet him.

I hope I would have the ability to tell an imposter from a true Messiah, but then again I can't know...

 

[Iggy]

I hope I would have the ability to tell an imposter from a true Messiah, but then again I can't know...

The thing I struggle to get my head around is that if you are not sure that you would recognise the imposter, why are you sure that Jesus of Naz was the true Messiah and the Jews (or atheists) have got it right?

 

[cgannon64]

The thing I struggle to get my head around is that if you are not sure that you would recognise the imposter, why are you sure that Jesus of Naz was the true Messiah and the Jews (or atheists) have got it right?

That's why I'm not sure I would be able to recognize an imposter.

I admit he could be. But in the evidence given, I think he isn't. Of course, if I could go back then and meet him, I would probably be able to tell whether he was or not.

 

[Iggy]

I may be misunderstanding you and we may be at cross purposes. I will rephrase my question. Are you convinced that Jesus of Naz (ie the original) was genuine, or do you question his claims bearing in mind what we have been discussing?

 

[cgannon64]

Naturally I do question his claims a little. And I do not deny that he could be an imposter.

But I've come to the conclusion that he is real.

 

[Iggy]

Naturally I do question his claims a little. And I do not deny that he could be an imposter.

But I've come to the conclusion that he is real.

Thanks for that honest answer. Would you say you are religious because of your conclution or faith? I find it easier to understand someone who is religious because they have reached a conclution than (usually blind) faith.

 

[cgannon64]

Well I was raised Catholic, but I've gone over it and its mostly a conclusion, I think.

EDIT: My conclusion has moved away from Catholicism but still stuck with Jesus.

 

[Iggy]

Thanks for that cgannon.

I am surprised that some of the usual suspects have not come forward and posted. The answer to the topic requires some thought for Christians; but perhaps the Jews here are best placed to answer the question. Any more takers?

 

[Aphex_Twin]

@Smidlee
What denomination of Christianity are you?

If it's not too much of a hassle...

 

[Margim]

If you are fishing for the really obvious stock-standard Christian response, I could point out that according to the Bible, where our sole point of knowledge of Jesus comes from, the end of the world as we know it accompanies his return. Thus, with earthquakes, plagues, giant locusts with stings of scorpians and the coming of the four horsemen of the apoclypse, I'm pretty sure we'd have some rough idea that something unsual was happening