Coming Info before release?

D712

D712

Queen
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
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528
Location
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Hey everyone,

I can see what they have told us about Civ 5. And I can see a possibly great game. But Im worried that this is gona be like Civ Rev, with how much they simplified things. The air units have been simplified and so have alot of things. Although the AI sounds like it is going to be the best they ever had and that I really like how they got rid of transport ships, I still think they might leave things out. But I still have high hopes for what they could tell us. Are they going to keep quiet till the release? Or are we gona know alot more as we get closer to the release?

Please let me know what you think and your predicitons :)
 
theres not that much simplification, streamline, or maybe even hide and seek is a better word. They've made it look simler, but they have really taken that ,much out, and added a lot more in instead.
 
It just seems to me that they took alot of the stuff that made Civ IV the way it is too me.
 
I too am slightly worried about the simplification, but so far I'm justifying it thusly :

1) The combat AI should be WAY better judging from what we've heard
2) As long as #1 is true, new units can and will be modded in by the community pretty quickly.

I'm looking at it and saying, make the mechanics great, the missing stuff can be modded in afterwards. It's really the mods in the end that make a good game really great. No different for Civ 5 than Civ 4. Expansion packs and modding made it great instead of just good.

Edit: Wow. 5 years in Civfanatics and only 34 posts.... I'm such a sleazy lurker.....
 
D712 said:
Hey everyone,

I can see what they have told us about Civ 5. And I can see a possibly great game. But Im worried that this is gona be like Civ Rev, with how much they simplified things. The air units have been simplified and so have alot of things. Although the AI sounds like it is going to be the best they ever had and that I really like how they got rid of transport ships, I still think they might leave things out. But I still have high hopes for what they could tell us. Are they going to keep quiet till the release? Or are we gona know alot more as we get closer to the release?

Please let me know what you think and your predicitons :)
Click to expand...
It is perfectly possible to provide a simple interface to a complex system.
I hate making predictions but I am hopeful based on what I have seen that the game will have the same depth available as Civ4, but based on Firaxis' stated design goals it appears the user interface will reveal that depth in layers.

From my perspective it is also important to remember that depth and breadth are not the same thing. I am expecting less breadth, in that there will be fewer systems modeled (e.g. No corporations or espionage) than Civ4BTS, but I fully expect those that are there will have the same depth as before.

One question back at you...where did you hear this?
The air units have been simplified
Click to expand...
I try to stay up with all the latest info and I don't recall hearing anything official about air units.
 
I would think streamlining would be a better word, if there are less unit types (or less variety in specialty units), and I think it would be a good thing.

Why?

Because I want really good AI that can kick players butts and that isn't highly susceptable to exploits.

IMO, one of the longtime problems with Civ and war is player exploitation of AI flaws. Players learn the game rules inside and out, particularly AI tendencies and flaws, and exploiting that becomes a "tactic," which to me is no tactic at all.

So, I would prefer to see fewer units and less gimmick units and an AI that knows how to use what it DOES have well.

*if* there are fewer (specialty) units the AI can be focused more on getting the job done, instead of the multitude of ways to get the job done. Players want the game to be smooth and turns to be short, so the AI can only be thinking for so long per turn. Keeping the units streamlined means the AI is thinking more about strategy and kicking butt than it is thinking about, hmm, should I use paratroopers here, or germ warfare, or space-based giant lasers, or subterrenean gnome powerrangers, or...
 
mjs0 said:
It is perfectly possible to provide a simple interface to a complex system.
I hate making predictions but I am hopeful based on what I have seen that the game will have the same depth available as Civ4, but based on Firaxis' stated design goals it appears the user interface will reveal that depth in layers.

From my perspective it is also important to remember that depth and breadth are not the same thing. I am expecting less breadth, in that there will be fewer systems modeled (e.g. No corporations or espionage) than Civ4BTS, but I fully expect those that are there will have the same depth as before.

One question back at you...where did you hear this?

I try to stay up with all the latest info and I don't recall hearing anything official about air units.
Click to expand...

I read on another thread that they would only have fighter, bobers, and helicopters. I dont know anything for sure.

And I would like to reind everyone, this threa is more about if anyone thiks they will give us alot more game info before release. Ive never anticipated a game so much so Ive never payed attention to pre-game info. I just want to know if most of the info about civ 4 was given out before the release, and if the same will happen before civ 5. Because based on what they have told us so far, this isnt enough info to ensure im going to buy this.
 
D712 said:
I read on another thread that they would only have fighter, bobers, and helicopters. I dont know anything for sure.

And I would like to reind everyone, this threa is more about if anyone thiks they will give us alot more game info before release. Ive never anticipated a game so much so Ive never payed attention to pre-game info. I just want to know if most of the info about civ 4 was given out before the release, and if the same will happen before civ 5. Because based on what they have told us so far, this isnt enough info to ensure im going to buy this.
Click to expand...
My simple answer: Then wait and see. There are still two months left of information (and I wouldn't be surprised if PAX brings more info, and I plan to be there). Also, the "3 types of planes" was an assumption by a poster because that's all that we've been shown. Judging by the tech tree bar length and the mech unit, I'm sure we'll see more advanced air units.
 
bjbrains said:
My simple answer: Then wait and see. There are still two months left of information (and I wouldn't be surprised if PAX brings more info, and I plan to be there). Also, the "3 types of planes" was an assumption by a poster because that's all that we've been shown. Judging by the tech tree bar length and the mech unit, I'm sure we'll see more advanced air units.
Click to expand...

Yeah your answer to me not knowing about the planes was the answer I was looking for in the thread.
 
well greg has made a good start on giving us info, thanks greg!.

We should see some more soon no doubt.
 
AriochIV said:
Oh, I guess that explains why they won't release more information -- got an exclusive thing with PCGamer. Guess I should have seen that coming.
Click to expand...

"Exclusive" has become a buzzword.
The first german article in the "ComputerBild Spiele" has said, that it's an for europe exclusive preview! Got the magazine after we've read here about the first articles from denmark, sweden and france.
Don't give anything on "exclusive".
 
Schuesseled said:
well greg has made a good start on giving us info, thanks greg!.

We should see some more soon no doubt.
Click to expand...

You will! And very very soon. I had meant to get out at least one feature this week but sadly it didn't make it. But that just means there will be even more updates next week, and I think you'll like them :)
 
2K Greg said:
You will! And very very soon. I had meant to get out at least one feature this week but sadly it didn't make it. But that just means there will be even more updates next week, and I think you'll like them :)
Click to expand...

yes please some hints!
 
Some people appear to be under the impression that the AI in civ5 will be miles ahead of civ4's. I say don't get your hopes up. Depending on your perspective, you could say that even the unpatched AI in vanilla civ4 was a big achievement in game AI. Of course, it's much better in BtS but that was thanks to years of gameplay with high level players exposing each and every flaw, as well as code divers identifying issues at the lowest level - the code and its logic itself.

Even the fact that the game mechanics are not necessarily nailed down yet means it's impossible to claim how good the AI is. You need to finalise the rules before you can truly test how competent the AI is.

To sum up: Yes, I too am fairly sure the AI will be decent but just remember good AI takes time and that if you really want a strong challenge from your opponents you will still need to do what others have to do in other video games - find human opponents. :)
 
The thing is, some people are claiming "the AI cant be any good" or that it will be bad. Like they know more than the rest of us.
I have made no claims on the AI, I will wait and see how "clever" they are, in my experience all AI's seem to lack the intelligence of a Human, they just have scripts to follow, and if you work them out you can make them very "predictable", where as with a human you can never predict to 100% accuracy, i.e in a game of chess you can set up a queen sacrafice to get you a win a few moves down the line, a great way to win, but this isn't any good when the player your playing aginst has an intelligence, because not neccesarily are we worried that the good intellect of the other player will spot the trap, we can also be worried that the bad intellect of the player will fail to notice they can even kill the queen. A computer is not capable of intellect and making choices all be it bad ones, they follow a strick line of commands. Sure you can throw in a 5% chance of doing something stupid to make it seem like a dumb ape, but if you work out that you can predict that too.

Anyway, so, yes, we will need to wait and see as to exactly how "smart" or "stupid" the AI is. I suspect till we actually invent proper AI, it will just continue to niether be smart or stupid, and to make a harder game we will just have to do what we always do and have the AI cheat.

I wait for the day when choosing the difficulty setting from settler to diety, doesn't mean the AI has more cheats, i.e starts with more resources, has less maintanence costs, e.t.c,
I want AI actually invented, then at settler you can play an AI with the IQ of a 5 year old, and on diety you have to beat the fierce intellect of AI Steven Hawking.
The AI actually being invented, can have a personality, if you are winning to much or do something to annoy him like take a particular city maybe it will have a hissy fit moan at you through your headphones and completely destroy his game just to build an empire capable of crippling you or destroying you, and then proceed to laugh manically at you as he destroys both your games like some suicidal nutjob. Ah, to play against a human, or artifical counterpart.
 
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