Commerce on River-Ice Tiles

[citizenalex]

I've also noticed that the Illians have it rather tricky to beef up production and the building of improvements. Typically, there's really two ways to beef up flatlands; either go for lumber mills and get a health bonus or spam workshops...

Now intuition says that because they're evil, you want to go the workshop way and avoid toiling about at turn 300 when the AC finally hits 50 and blights up all the trees. But because that darn temple of the hand is the earliest producing building and it's arguably more convenient to get mysticism before smelting, you're either stuck over-prolonging its construction to finish building workshops...You can't build them on ice, for some reason.

 

[Mailbox]

The Illians synergize well with agrarianism farms and slavery instead of raw production. (And aristocracy also works well, despite running against the thematic God King).

workshops...You can't build them on ice, for some reason.

This should probably be reported as a bug.

 

[Emptiness]

Incidentally, workshops can be built in riverside ice tiles...

 

[citizenalex]

Incidentally, workshops can be built in riverside ice tiles...

I'd understand if it were watermills, but it's a rather loopy rule. Maybe the rigors of the cold icelands are too much of an engineering feat for normal civs, but Illians should know better...

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Now intuition says that because they're evil, you want to go the workshop way and avoid toiling about at turn 300 when the AC finally hits 50 and blights up all the trees.

snow terrain doesn't turn to hell. do forests disappear on it when the plot counter gets high ( "would be hell if snow had an hell terrain equivalent" ) ?

 

[Emptiness]

Forests on ice tundra are not removed, but Ancient Forests are removed (which makes no sense to me, but that's another topic).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

From what I've heard, Forests do not but Ancient Forests do. (Now that I think of it, Forests might just stay on Tundra, not Snow. I believe that the features that don't have the terrain a as a <TerrainBoolean> disappear. Forests Whave only Plains, Tundra, and Grasslands as <TerrainBoolean> while Ancient Forests have no <TerrainBoolean> at all.)

 

[Emptiness]

I just checked, and I'm wrong. Forests are removed from ice, but remain on tundra.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

that's weird, possibly a bug. I'll post it over in the bug thread, so that Kael can hopefully get a look at it for patch E. this thread seems pretty useful anyway.

 

[Sephi]

I wouldn't imagine it benefiting other players at all. It'd be like a non-riverside desert tile for the Malakim. One commerce isn't as good as a specialist (even a citizen).

yeah, but usually ice tiles also have an improvement. But well, changing the Yield from nothing to 1 commerce for non-illians probably isn't gamebreaking .

 

[Worm4life]

Eh. It's a strategic trade off. Your lands become slightly less useful to you, but absolutely worthless to your enemies.

 

[Rystic]

Eh. It's a strategic trade off. Your lands become slightly less useful to you, but absolutely worthless to your enemies.

I don't think Temples of the Hand came from the 'hurt the enemy' angle as much as they came from the 'help the Illians' one. Some buildings are strictly there to harm your enemies, like Citadels of Light. But a Temple of the Hand produces Ice, and Ice produces food. It's meant for growth, and hurting the enemy is a fringe-benefit. No river-side commerce is one hell of a trade off to build a Temple. It discourages players from using the Illians' unique mechanics altogether.

 

[Seventh Child]

I usually run Agrarianism/Slavery as Illian. But I usually leave the capital un-iced with God King instead of Aristocracy...the troops have to come from somewhere and often the Temple can cripple production.

+1 Added back would be nice, but I think +1 Production like the Levee might be more fitting for the Illians. You lose the commerce bonus but compensate with added production. It seems to fit better, sets them apart from the other civilizations and may entice you to build the temple when you otherwise wouldn't to keep a high production city un-iced.

 

[Valkrionn]

This is a change I made a while back... The commerce on river is supposed to represent trade... The river may be frozen, but it's still easier to pull a sled on ice than snow.

 

[UNIT 666]

In that case, shouldn't roads increase commerce on a tile?

 

[Lone Wolf]

In that case, shouldn't roads increase commerce on a tile?

That it's how it is in previous version of Civ. It was done with in Civ4 to avoid every tile being a commerce tile.

 

[Emptiness]

Roads do make transporting goods easier, but they also must be maintained. The benefit of rivers is free, so the net benefit to commerce is greater.

 

[Rystic]

In that case, shouldn't roads increase commerce on a tile?

This is an argument against commerce on any river tile.