napoleon526
Emperor
But this is another problem. People perform better when they think they have a chance to advance themselves. Under communism they will work just hard enough to keep from getting shot.
'commies'
- Thread starter Cecasander
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Greadius
:yeah:
Ahh, the wonderful expanded use of strategic countries... essentially making every country in the world strategic as a result!
But I went "Really? Nepal?" because I was wandering what type of outside influence was repressing Maoist tendancies. Certain China, who would never want to see anything resembling Maoism again
Who is losing?Who is arguing?
Maybe that is because the denizans of that country aren't as web-accessible as we are, perhaps its because they don't think anyone interested in the party has access to the web (in most of the countries mentioned, the internet is a luxury good, unlikely to find users amongst the working class), or maybe its because your search was limited to a certain language not popular in those parts.
But, really, you're the one that said they can't vote for communist parties. Fine in Nepal, but then, they can't vote for much of anything in Nepal so its a redundant point.
newfangle
hates you.
Kind of a side note, but people often argue that no true communist state has ever been witnessed. Well, the most devout communist in all existence was Jesus. No other person represented the exact same views as Marx and actually carried through with them. Kinda makes you wonder why the communists hated Dorothy Day.
Furry Spatula
...
yes newfangle that is right, Jesus expressed the same views as Marx did. Including that whole idea that relgion is the opiate of the people. Before you try to make silly connections think them through.
Edit: I almost forgot that Jesus also called for violent Bloody uprisings aswell. What Bible verse was that again?
Edit: I almost forgot that Jesus also called for violent Bloody uprisings aswell. What Bible verse was that again?
Furry Spatula
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4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And preach as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay
lol thats gotta be it Metal, We proved that Jesus did indeed call for brutal violent uprisings.
Edit: Newfangle keep in mind In addition to Jesus helping the poor and prostitutes, he also preached to and helped Tax collectors, he didn't take the Marxist solution and Kill them.
lol thats gotta be it Metal, We proved that Jesus did indeed call for brutal violent uprisings.
Edit: Newfangle keep in mind In addition to Jesus helping the poor and prostitutes, he also preached to and helped Tax collectors, he didn't take the Marxist solution and Kill them.
metalhead
Angry Bartender
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See? Jesus beseaches his followers to cast out demons! And what demons do you think he meant? Why, greedy capitalist pigs, that's who! And, by cast out, I believe he was talking about violently overthrowing them! The true nature of Jesus has been revealed 
Just the fact that I pulled those numbers out of thin air and they contained any usable material is remarkable!
Just the fact that I pulled those numbers out of thin air and they contained any usable material is remarkable!
Furry Spatula
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well thats an interpretation of the Bible I've never seen before
The ones in Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.Originally posted by Greadius
Which communist party has been banned?
The one in Malaysia because in 1948, they took up arms against the then British colonial administration. A peace treaty was only signed in 1989 or 1990 IIRC. Still remained banned, with party members (now all very old) who chose to repatriate to M'sia under the peace treaty under close govt observation.
There wasn't one in Singapore, but there's a Socialist Front (I think) or something, which was repressed.
The one in Indonesia - was banned since the 60s, after a bloodbath of PKI members and Indonesia Chinese, in the hundreds of thousands. Sukarno had grown close to Beijing during his tenure, and Suharto, who'd just come to power after a coup, accused the PKI of trying to grab power, and cracked down on them.
I think earlier on, some generals of the army had been assassinated, and Suharto was one of few who managed to escape. The PKI was suspected.
A crude analysis, there is a wide ranging debate in Communist Parties about the different socialist countries, we would certainly not describe them as "cruel dictatorship".
The Communist Party has NEVER called for "murdering people". A peaceful revolution is what we want, unfortunately those with power, wealth and control often want to hang on to it violently.
What utter garbage. Where was the present Pope born?? Are you really are this ignorant?
Have a look at Communist Party websites (the British or US ones would be good for English speakers) and do a search on "religion". This will give you the facts of what Communists are ACTUALLY saying, rather than the prejudiced nonsense above.
Hate is a big emotion, for myself I hate, poverty, war, exploitation and oppression, how about you?
And for peoples information, Communist Parties have been banned at different times in vitually every country in the world.
A short list of European countries where Communist Parties have been banned at different times (i know that I have left some off this list as it is from memory);
Ireland
Finland
Denmark
Portugal
Spain
France
Germany
Austria
Italy
Romania
Hungary
Albania
Russia
Bulgaria
Czehoslovakia
Poland
Norway
Communists have been murdered, put on show trials, had their political rights oppressed and been hounded and repressed in all european countries - to this day.
Furry Spatula
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have you read marx's communist manifesto? It sounds like you have not. If you have you wouldn't have made those stupid statements. For instance read the part about Violent Uprising. Now, i don't know why kind of violence is peaceful.
Edit: Also that isn't Utter Garbage. Communists need to have no religion, if people are willing to be conted with pain on earth with the promise of bliss in the afterlife Marx argued that that people wouldn't rise up. He argued that religion needed to be banned.
Edit: Also that isn't Utter Garbage. Communists need to have no religion, if people are willing to be conted with pain on earth with the promise of bliss in the afterlife Marx argued that that people wouldn't rise up. He argued that religion needed to be banned.
Over a million Communists were murdered in Indonesia, with information and means supplied by the CIA.
This is not just propaganda, the CIA agents of the time are quite proud of this mass murder (try the New York Times or Washington Post). If your ruling elite are having problems, just close down your sham democracy and kill enough Communists to frighten the polulation back into line.
Furry Spatula
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do we need to mention how many people Stalin Murdered? Do we need to mention those Castro Murdered? Do we need to mention the ammount of Christians Murdered in China for believing in God? Do we need to mention those others killed in CHina being killed because of their bleiefs? What about the Tibetans?
Furry Spatula
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I hate those aswell and look they can be found in the Soviet Unions history
Poverty, rampant throughout Russia and Behind the Iron Curtain
War, Afghan Soviet war quickly comes to mind
Exploitation, the 7 year plan of Stalin's
and oppression, hmmm the entire history, the fact that everyone who rose up against communism was killed.
metalhead
Angry Bartender
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ecadre - if you had any grounding in reality, you'd realize how ridiculous Communism really is. Answer some of my and others concerns about it if you really want a good discussion - cherry-picking specific comments and quoting out of context won't do. Not that I support the treatment many Communists have faced - I firmly believe that the treatment of Communists in the US during the Red Scare and McCarthyism was maybe the most unconstitutional action ever taken by the US government, and I will wholeheartedly agree with any condemnation of those actions. However, the fact remains that the Communist ideal is unnatainable given human nature, and Communism has been nothing but deplorable and repressive in its practice, and will continue to be so ad infinitum.
[sarcasm]Bah, nothing new about that. We Chinese have been killing those pesky Christian missionaries (and occasionally their converts) fr long before Communism.
Fancy those strange-dressing bearded weirdos coming into your cities telling you you're 'heathens' and need to convert to the worship of the 'true and only one God'.
And mostimes, under the protection of European powers interested in spreading 'civilisation', in the homeland of the oldest living civilisation on Earth. Bah. [/sarcasm]
Thing is - Christianity has a less-than-favourable history (and especially association with the European imperial powers preying on the nation) in China, and is still viewed somewhat suspiciously.
CruddyLeper
Unworshipped Deity
It is not a redundant point to consider that any country that forbids free and fair elections is a potential candidate for a Communist revolution attempt.
It is a grave mistake to think that any country that wants a Communism government can simply vote for one. Try to look at it from a perspective outside of the "rich North" experience, eh?
As for writing any country off as redudant or worthless, anybody saying this leaves themselves open for somebody saying the same of their own. Ignorance and contempt breed the same qualities.
I'd like to give a bit of historical background. (Note: The following is very simplified. However, I don't feel like writing a book.)
In the 1800s, the industrialized world was divided into three economic groups. There were the tiny minority of the rich (either capitalists or large landowners). There was the somewhat larger middle class (aka bourgeoisie) of managers, professional people and merchants. Finally there was the huge group of workers (aka lumpen proliteriat, downtrodden masses, etc.). The rich were quite well off, the middle class lived comfortably, and the workers lived a hand to mouth existence where life was "squalid, brutish and short."
Laissez faire capitalism was the economic system of the day. One of the tenets of this system was that everyone was responsible only for himself. John Stuart Mill's concept of the Social Contract was considered meaningless because, theoretically, anyone could achieve any position they wanted and were willing to work for. In real life, while there was a very limited upward mobility, the vast majority of people stayed in the social/economic class they were born into.
The Scotsman Keir Hardie, a founder of the British Labour Party and one of the few workers to become politically active, was a 15 year old factory worker who was fired because he was 10 minutes late for his job. He also forfeited his week's pay "to teach him a lesson." This was not only legal, it wasn't uncommon. Because of abuses like this, movements like socialism, anarchy and socialism's off-shoot, Marxism, had a great deal of appeal to many workers and to bourgeois supporters. Prince Peter Kropotkin, a major anarchist philosopher, worked to bring about economic and social change.
The changes that socialism, etc. were trying to achieve can be summed up in the phrases "social justice" and Marx's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." By WWI many of these changes did happen in Western countries but through political means, not by revolution. Laissez faire capitalism was replaced by various forms of governmental intervention, including minimum wage, child labor laws, work safety laws, and the like. However, for some, this intervention did not go far enough, and The Revolution was still sought.
In the 1800s, the industrialized world was divided into three economic groups. There were the tiny minority of the rich (either capitalists or large landowners). There was the somewhat larger middle class (aka bourgeoisie) of managers, professional people and merchants. Finally there was the huge group of workers (aka lumpen proliteriat, downtrodden masses, etc.). The rich were quite well off, the middle class lived comfortably, and the workers lived a hand to mouth existence where life was "squalid, brutish and short."
Laissez faire capitalism was the economic system of the day. One of the tenets of this system was that everyone was responsible only for himself. John Stuart Mill's concept of the Social Contract was considered meaningless because, theoretically, anyone could achieve any position they wanted and were willing to work for. In real life, while there was a very limited upward mobility, the vast majority of people stayed in the social/economic class they were born into.
The Scotsman Keir Hardie, a founder of the British Labour Party and one of the few workers to become politically active, was a 15 year old factory worker who was fired because he was 10 minutes late for his job. He also forfeited his week's pay "to teach him a lesson." This was not only legal, it wasn't uncommon. Because of abuses like this, movements like socialism, anarchy and socialism's off-shoot, Marxism, had a great deal of appeal to many workers and to bourgeois supporters. Prince Peter Kropotkin, a major anarchist philosopher, worked to bring about economic and social change.
The changes that socialism, etc. were trying to achieve can be summed up in the phrases "social justice" and Marx's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." By WWI many of these changes did happen in Western countries but through political means, not by revolution. Laissez faire capitalism was replaced by various forms of governmental intervention, including minimum wage, child labor laws, work safety laws, and the like. However, for some, this intervention did not go far enough, and The Revolution was still sought.
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