Common Errors and/or Crashes Section

[Koshling]

Well. It "fixed" the problem in that my city now requires an extra 500 food to grow, so it'd take another 100 turns to find out! Maybe that food required bug was coming in right at the beginning of games?

Off to start a new game and see if I really do need 800 surplus food to reach size 2.

This is the calculation for the base (unmodified) growth threshold:

	iThreshold = (GC.getDefineINT("BASE_CITY_GROWTH_THRESHOLD") + (iPopulation * GC.getDefineINT("CITY_GROWTH_MULTIPLIER")));

	iThreshold *= GC.getGameSpeedInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getGameSpeedType()).getGrowthPercent();

The assets currently define BASE_CITY_GROWTH_THRESHOLD as 25, CITY_GROWTH_MULTIPLIER as 3. Gamespeed SNAIL (which I am on) has 'iGrowthPercent' as 600%.

So the net is 6*(25 + pop*3)

For a city of size 1 that's 168 food. For a city of size 50 it's 1050 food.

The modifiers then change that according to civics etc.

 

[Grunthex]

Are civics that cause more food required to grow (like most of the starting civics) added or multiplied to that snail speed? And/or to each other?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Are civics that cause more food required to grow (like most of the starting civics) added or multiplied to that snail speed? And/or to each other?

Add to that the question of buildings that increase/decrease the food required to grow. I don't know and I am using it as a basis of my disease - malaria mod.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am still having the grain storage problem only one city larger this time. The Storage Pit is giving no saving and even though I have just grown to size 4 and have +24 food per turn my city shrinks to size 3 on the next turn.

 

[Hydromancerx]

This is more an annoyance but I will post it anyways.

When returning to a game all my BUG setting get set to default. And I have to reset them all every time I load a game no matter if its new or an existing game. Is there a way for the BUG settings to be remembered for saved games?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

This is more an annoyance but I will post it anyways.

When returning to a game all my BUG setting get set to default. And I have to reset them all every time I load a game no matter if its new or an existing game. Is there a way for the BUG settings to be remembered for saved games?

Yes, save twice in a row.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yes, save twice in a row.

Do the setting twice in a row or save the game twice in a row? If the latter then do you overwrite the same file or call it a new name?

 

[Desolator]

@Hydromancerx

A lot of the early buildings are not available in advanced start. (Like native culture, music hut, dance hut, etc.)
I think the problem is the iAdvancedStartCost value, it is set to -1 instead of 100
For ex. basketweaver's hut is available, (value=100), Root tubers is not (value=-1).

@Koshling

I noticed that in advanced start mode, the AI builds more than three cities if it can. It does not calculate the +3 anger value in all cities.
IMO revolution is a must have feature, so in that mode many early revolutions appear, crippling the AI.
Attached 7z includes:
Early save - anger everywhere
Later save - it's only turn 15 on eternity speed, anger everywhere and India already lost 2 cities due to revolution.
(Use WorldBuilder to look arond)

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydromancerx

A lot of the early buildings are not available in advanced start. (Like native culture, music hut, dance hut, etc.)
I think the problem is the iAdvancedStartCost value, it is set to -1 instead of 100
For ex. basketweaver's hut is available, (value=100), Root tubers is not (value=-1).

I have never used advanced start so I don't know. Not sure why you would need to since the beginning is as basic as you can get.

 

[Desolator]

I have never used advanced start so I don't know. Not sure why you would need to since the beginning is as basic as you can get.

Well, even snail is 'too fast' for this mod (at least in/after claccical era), and after a few start over, the very beginning gets a little boring (click, click, click, click, click for the first unit, building, tech, etc.).
With advanced start you can counter the slowness of the beginning. Setting up 2-3 cities with few buildings, units helps a little.

I don't know what you mean by "the beginning is as basic as you can get". Did you know that you can adjust the "advanced start base points" so you can buy/add techs, units, improvements, culture, population, etc.? (You can start the prehistoric era with slingers, if you buy the required techs.)
You can start with eg. the first 5-10 techs, 1-2-3 cities, few units, like scouts, and buildings like basketweaver, hunting instructon, etc. Also the AI has the same advanced start base points too, or more (actually you get less than the given value) if you play on harder levels.

 

[Koshling]

Are civics that cause more food required to grow (like most of the starting civics) added or multiplied to that snail speed? And/or to each other?

Everything is multiplicative now (as of yesterday's SVN). So two +50%'s will give you 1.5 * 1.5 * <original base> = 225% of original rather than the 200% you would have gotten under the addative method. Basically the effect of going to multiplicative is that +N% is 'more than' -N%, so we may need to adjust the values on some civics.

Note - don't get ADDING +50% confused with TAKING OUT -50% - they are no longer the same thing - adding and taking out a quantity (still) always leaves you where you started, so changing civic and changing back will leave you where you began as it should. However running two civic choices that give +50% and -50% won't balance as that will be 0.5 * 1.5 * <original> = 0.75 * <original>

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Do the setting twice in a row or save the game twice in a row? If the latter then do you overwrite the same file or call it a new name?

Do the settings. Save the game. Then save the game. Same name is fine. I usually ten do a load game to make sure it has.

 

[Koshling]

Brand new game, fresh install of rev529 from this afternoon. (Installed clean, not over an old directory).

In the attached save, end one turn, and Rome should grow to size 2. The food required goes to like -361 or something, causing to immediately shrink back to size 1 on next turn.

As far as I can tell the latest DLL resolves this (it's hard to be certain because loading that game in the latest DLL forces a recalculation of the growth thresholds and it's no longer anywhere near about to grow). I believe the bug you had was due to the growth threshold going negative due to > 100% modifiers. It still remains a mysetery how those modifiers accrued however :-(

 

[Koshling]

Just pushed to SVN a fix for the negative displayed city maintence for number of cities. There were actually two bugs:

1) The displayed values were just wrong, and most of the time you did not have negative maintenance due to number of cities, it just claimed you did due to the way it computed the values to display (actually the other values were artifically low but the total was correct, and since it displays the number of cities cost as just the difference between the two it was highly distorted)

2) When cities change hands/get destroyed the maintenance costs were not entirely removed from the previous owner (and never would be). MOST of the costs were removed, but a small rump remained and acted as a progressive history-tax in effect !

Both aspects are fixed.

 

[strategyonly]

I have never used advanced start so I don't know. Not sure why you would need to since the beginning is as basic as you can get.

Well, even snail is 'too fast' for this mod (at least in/after claccical era), and after a few start over, the very beginning gets a little boring (click, click, click, click, click for the first unit, building, tech, etc.).
With advanced start you can counter the slowness of the beginning. Setting up 2-3 cities with few buildings, units helps a little.

I don't know what you mean by "the beginning is as basic as you can get". Did you know that you can adjust the "advanced start base points" so you can buy/add techs, units, improvements, culture, population, etc.? (You can start the prehistoric era with slingers, if you buy the required techs.)
You can start with eg. the first 5-10 techs, 1-2-3 cities, few units, like scouts, and buildings like basketweaver, hunting instruction, etc. Also the AI has the same advanced start base points too, or more (actually you get less than the given value) if you play on harder levels.

See this is why i am really starting to like this MOD more and more each day, different people for different strokes, cant please everyone, but can come close.

 

[ls612]

Koshling: I have here 3 saves for your perusal for the food issues. the first is from the old DLL as of SVN r525. the second is a resave, only change being the new DLL. The third is one turn later, during which food processes were performed. I hope this will help isolate whatever is causing gradual food skewing.

View attachment 301262

 

[Koshling]

Koshling: I have here 3 saves for your perusal for the food issues. the first is from the old DLL as of SVN r525. the second is a resave, only change being the new DLL. The third is one turn later, during which food processes were performed. I hope this will help isolate whatever is causing gradual food skewing.

View attachment 301262

I'll take a look tomorrow. Any particular cities that show problems or things you noticed that I should be checking for in this game? I presume this was (apart from the first save) with the DLL from today (i.e. - when you say 'the new DLL' do you know what rev that was)?

 

[ls612]

I'll take a look tomorrow. Any particular cities that show problems or things you noticed that I should be checking for in this game? I presume this was (apart from the first save) with the DLL from today (i.e. - when you say 'the new DLL' do you know what rev that was)?

I'm using your DLL as of yesterday (r539) for the 'new' DLL, and the DLL from r525 for the 'old' DLL. No cities specifically, I just thought that a Preh. Save with a clear readout on the exact food calculations for one turn could help find exactly where the underlying food bug is.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well, even snail is 'too fast' for this mod (at least in/after claccical era), and after a few start over, the very beginning gets a little boring (click, click, click, click, click for the first unit, building, tech, etc.).
With advanced start you can counter the slowness of the beginning. Setting up 2-3 cities with few buildings, units helps a little.

I don't know what you mean by "the beginning is as basic as you can get". Did you know that you can adjust the "advanced start base points" so you can buy/add techs, units, improvements, culture, population, etc.? (You can start the prehistoric era with slingers, if you buy the required techs.)
You can start with eg. the first 5-10 techs, 1-2-3 cities, few units, like scouts, and buildings like basketweaver, hunting instructon, etc. Also the AI has the same advanced start base points too, or more (actually you get less than the given value) if you play on harder levels.

I mean some people would use advanced start to simulate the prehistoric era before there was one in RoM/AND since you were basically plopped witha bunch of advanced techs.

Now with C2C you have next to nothing to start with. Thus you don't really have to simulate a fake prehistoric era since there is now a real one you can play.

 

[EldrinFal]

FYI Here is Afforess' description of the tag for affecting Food Required to Grow in Civics:

iPopulationgrowthratepercentage

This allows modders to have civics change the base food threshold cities need to grow. It works in a slightly unusual way. A cities normal food, if this is set to 0, is considered to be 100% of it's base food. If this is set to 100% as well, it double the food that is needed for all cities to grow under this civic. However, setting the value to -50% is the same as cutting it in half. Make sure that these values can never add up to a -100%, or cities will only require 1 food to grow.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344522