Comparison between Empires in Early Middle Ages

Which empire will you support the most?

  • Frankish Empire

    Votes: 10 14.9%
  • Byzantine Empire

    Votes: 26 38.8%
  • Abbasid Caliphate

    Votes: 12 17.9%
  • Tang Empire

    Votes: 11 16.4%
  • Neither one of them. I have my own one.

    Votes: 6 9.0%
  • Middle Ages? I haven't heard it before!

    Votes: 2 3.0%

  • Total voters
    67
Munster was the name of the Kingdom I was Referencing.
Well how the hell should I have known that since you gave no indication, and if it's the Kingdom of Munster, why did you say the Kingdom of Ireland?

That's not even touching the issue of how much a "Kingdom of Munster" existed, beyond the title.
 
No, Bulgaria's more or less right for the year 1000. Samuil Kometopoulos had quite the empire for a few years. I made a map of the Byzantine area for Kraznaya when he was thinking about modding a Year 1000 NES (still bitter that he decided not to), and here it is - remarkably similar to the depicted Bulgaria in that map.

krazmap3byzantium.png


Of course, in 1001 Basileios II launched a campaign that divested Samuil of a third of his territory (the Paristrion part). And over the next 17 years - mostly because Byzantine operations were deliberately limited by the Emperor (there are several theories about this; it used to be popular to claim that Basileios had a cease-fire with Samuil, but that's been basically disproven, and now it seems like the Emperor was limiting offensive operations to cut down on troop costs and to reduce the scope for political opponents to win military glory) - the Byzantines slowly ground down Samuil's state until it ceased to exist.

And it should be mentioned that the empire of the Kometopouloi had very little to do with the Bulgarian state that was destroyed by Ioannes Tzimiskes - Samuil briefly controlled a member of the old Bulgarian imperial family, but everything rested on his own power, and he soon seized the title for himself. It might be best not to call it Bulgaria at all.

So it's misleading in the same sense that a map of the Roman Empire in 117 is misleading - that is to say, it isn't, and it's certainly not factually wrong, but it doesn't give you a very good idea of what the borders of the Bulgarian Empire looked like in general.
Dude, that map of yours has Bulgaria extending nowhere near as far into Dalmatia and Illyria as the above monstrosity.

@LS: What about the islands Venice possessed, which are given to Croatia and Bulgaria above?
 
@LS: What about the islands Venice possessed, which are given to Croatia and Bulgaria above?

The map isn't big enough for me to tell who those are given to.
 
Dude, that map of yours has Bulgaria extending nowhere near as far into Dalmatia and Illyria as the above monstrosity.
Yeah, but that's because of an unwillingness to ascribe "control" to the Kometopoulan empire on the basis of a few armies marching around for a few campaigning seasons. It's a legitimate point of disagreement.
 
Tang Dynasty :love:

Tang Taizong was a pretty cool guy.

Anybody who gets proclaimed "Tengrikhan" by the steppe peoples has to be a pretty cool guy- especially if he's a settled person.
 
Offa's Mercia was much more of an empire than Wessex was
 
The Mayan.


Why? Because they did it in the JUNGLE!
 
Offa's Mercia was much more of an empire than Wessex was
Is there any particular reason, do you know, that they chose to translate "Bretwalda" as "Rex Britanniae" rather than "Imperator Britanniae"- like the Gaels sometimes translated "Ard Rí na hÉireann" into "Imperator Scottorum"- or did that just happen to be the convention at the time?
 
Not a clue! I suppose somebody's made an argument about the convention arising in recently sub-Roman (potentially Late Roman) Britain as part of the Empire-wide "we suddenly like being called reges now" phase and then being carried through the historiography as, well, a convention, but I think that argument's crap. :D

If you're asking why I consider Offa's Mercia to be more of an 'empire' than Wessex, it was a joke (note the lack of punctuation), but I suppose you could say that its vassal/expansion system exposed through chartulary reconstructions is more 'imperialistic', plus the kings of Wessex had to deal with Danes and never achieved the kind of supremacy that Offa did, but that's not a serious argument.
 
If you're asking why I consider Offa's Mercia to be more of an 'empire' than Wessex, it was a joke (note the lack of punctuation), but I suppose you could say that its vassal/expansion system exposed through chartulary reconstructions is more 'imperialistic', plus the kings of Wessex had to deal with Danes and never achieved the kind of supremacy that Offa did, but that's not a serious argument.
Oh, certainly, yeah, the Bretwalda achieved hegemony, but never "imperium", I guess you would call it. (Not that the Ard Rí ever did, either; I guess they were just a bit more self-congratulating.) I was just going off on a "there's a thought" tangent.
 
the abassid caliphate
i <3 baghdad
 
Is there any particular reason, do you know, that they chose to translate "Bretwalda" as "Rex Britanniae" rather than "Imperator Britanniae"- like the Gaels sometimes translated "Ard Rí na hÉireann" into "Imperator Scottorum"- or did that just happen to be the convention at the time?
I'm going to take a guess and say that has to do with specific power disputes in Ireland.
 
This is a Civilization gaming forum, which means it has an absurdly high proportion of Byzies.
Hey, if it was multiple choice I would have voted for the Caliphate second, but I can't let my dear Byzies have only a moderate victory over the others.;)
 
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