Complete Mac Mayania

[frunobulax]

Turn 0 - 570BC

Unit roster:
1 settler
10 workers
10 warriors
1 spearman
16 javelin throwers
2 curraghs

After reading all the tactical suggestions I decide it's time to make a move on the Iroqs - trade Republic to Iroq now (turn 0), move in forces (turn 1), war in turn 2. The Aztecs are cautious towards us and I'd rather trade techs, keep 'em relatively sweet, and maybe go on to forge an alliance of convenience, rather than have them make any unexpected demands and possibly declare war before we are where we want to be with the Iroq.

So, offer Iroquois Republic. They respond offering Lit. and 20 gold, we ask for Lit. and 25 gold, they agree.

Contact Aztecs and trade CoL + Math + 1 gold for Poly (they originally asked for CoL + Math + 70 gold for Poly, which was outrageous, and was glad I bargained hard to get down to 1 gold). They remain cautious towards us however, despite graciously accepting Mayaniac's hard bargaining.

Iroquois go into Anarchy. We switch research to Currency (in 10).
245 gold + 0 gpt, research @50%


Turn 1 - 550BC

Piedra Negras completes W., switch to barracks in 8.

Currency now in 8 @ -1 gp, research @50%

Elite JT in DGIron moved out to eastern border of Allegheny + joined by 2 JTs (from N of DGIron)
3 JTs N of DGIron to S outskirts of Oil Springs on road
Spearman sent from Bonampak to garrison DGIron (arrive in 2)
4 JTs from Yax move N to mountain S of Grand River, with 2 JTs (incl. 1 reg JT) following behind on gem/mountain tile
2 more JTs en route N/NE currently between Ci and Palenque
Settler moved into Quirigan
2 curraghs continue exploring out west, as does W
2 workers E of Tikal moved to mine BG E of Palenque

Iroq. W sighted NW of Catter. (in forest)

CI grows to size 6 (settler in 1)
CI - now has 3 unhap vs 2 hap citizens, so one becomes a tax collector & balance restored (2 hap/2 unhap/1 cont/1 tax)
Now breaking even
Palenque entertainer -> tax collector
Quirigan entertainer -> tax collector
Copan entertainer no change otherwise revolt next turn
Now + 4 gpt, Currency in 8, research @50%

Palenque's JT in 1 switched to Horsemen in 1 as decide we need fast unit to pillage Iroq. horses


Turn 2 - 530BC

CI makes settler, another due in 4
Palenque makes Horseman, JT due in 5
Lagartero makes worker, another due in 4
Quirigua makes JT, another due in 5

Annoyed Iroq demand we withdraw our forces from Grand River - we refuse - it's war!
249 gpt, so research lowered to 40%, now +5 gpt, Currency in 10

The Iroquian War 530bc -

Oil Springs:
1 JT fortified on road just S, 2 other JTs move NW + NE onto mountains, ready to strike

Allegheny:
3 JTs (inc Elite JT) cross border due E of Allegheny behind river, aim to move NW next turn and attack from N avoiding an attack across a river

Grand River offensive:
2 JTs attack and are defeated, but reduce Iroq Spear to 1 red bar, third JT is victorious and captures Grand River (we decide not to raze city).
WE ENTER GOLDEN AGE. Capture 1 worker from GRiver, moved due S to assist mining by Yax. Fourth JT passes through GRiver and takes up
defensive position on road/mine tile due S of Salamanca.

2 JT reinf. move up to position S of GRiver.
Palenque's new Horseman moves N towards Yax tasked to pillage Iroq. horse resource
Quirigua's new JT moves 1 SE into forest/road across water - settler in Qui. moves to join him, rather than risk moving alone near Iroq W

2 JTs (en route between CI and Pal) - one moves to mined road due W of hill with Iroq W on, other JT crosses river on towards Palenque and is joined by new CI settler

2 workers start mining BG east of Palenque - Irog W has moved onto empty hill betwixt Palenque and Quirigua
2 workers complete mine N of Calak and start road - which is completed immediately
Spearman arrives and is garrisoned in DGIron.
2 curraghs exploring - one spots village on island off coast out west.
New Lagartero worker moved E to assist mining worker
2 workers sent to irrig plains SW of DGIron

+42 gpt due to GA therefore research up to 60%, now 249 gold +7gpt, Currency in 5


Turn 3 - 510BC

People request Forbidden Palace!
It is reported that the English have completed a GW - The Colossus!

Bonam makes JT (moves S towards Cattar), JT due again in 4
Uax makes W, Harbour in 12 (only 1 food extra currently - slow growth)

2 JTs near Quirigua attack Iroq W - one JT defeated, other victorious - we gain worker, moved NE to irrig plains S of Quirigua

Settler by Quirigua moves W towards Yax

JTs by Allegheny spot Iroq Spear+Settler but continue to move NW - so now in position N of Allegheny ready to attack

JT fortified on road/mine S of Salam, JT in GRiver moved NE to join him
2 JTs (1 reg) now fortified in GRiver

Mine NE Yax completed, 2 workers start road
JT+Settler move on N of Palenque
Mine completed E of Copan - workers start road (in 2)
Mine completed E of Lag - workers start road (in 2)
Road on mine completed N of Calak - 2 workers SW to mine BG
Spearman fortified now in DGIron
2 workers start irrig. plains SW of DGIron (in 2)
Barb Worker starts irrig. Horse tile W of Uax (in 8)
'Spirit of 1550' Curragh fortified as Lupaca Conscript Galley spotted off coast 1 tile away

Oil Springs offensive:
1 JT attacks from SE mtn position and defeats lone Iroq Spearman (but down to 1 red). Oil Springs is now ours!
No worker enslaved, but city not in resistance, so set to W in 5
Other 2 JTs move on past Oil Springs towards Niagara

256 gold +9gpt, Curr in 4


Turn 4 - 490BC

'1550' Curragh defeats conscript galley - continues explorations, as does other Curr and W

Iroq Spear+Sett flee off N towards Salam

Copan = JT, switch to Horse (in 3)
Tikal = JT, JT in 3
Yax = JT, JT in 5
Calak = JT, switch to Horse in 3
Lag = worker, next in 2

Unit roster:
19 JT / 1 Horse / 1 Spear / 12 War / 12 Wkr / 2 Sett / 2 Curr

Allegheny offensive:
2 vet JTs attack Allegheny from N of city and each defeat an Iroq Spear - Allegheny is captured!
We gain 4 Iroq workers - all sent SE to build road ASAP, as city has 2 resistors and food shortage (city=size4)
Elite JT moves away N of Alleg in pursuit of fleeing Iroq Spear+Settler
2 JTs + Horse now in position SW of Salamanca
3 JTs/2 Sett currently en route N to Yax

New Yax JT N to GRiver
New Calak JT E towards Piedras Neg
JT moves into position N of Catter
2 JTs N towards Niagara

Palenque mine completed - 2 workers build road in 1 turn
Copan new JT N towards CI/Pal
Lag mine completed - 2 workers build road in 1 turn
New Lag worker N towards CI
2 Calak workers start mining BG (in 2)

265 gold +1gpt, Currency in 3


Turn 5 - 470BC

CI = Sett, Sett in 4
Pal = JT, JT in 2
Quir = JT, Horse in 3

Only 1 resistor (of 2) quelled in Allegheny!

Quir = size 7, so 1 entertainer created to maintain order
Research down to 40%; 266 gold + 35 gpt Curr in 2 (as opposed to -53 gpt Curr in 1)

Tikal = size 6, so 1 entertainer created to maintain order
however now has 1 food shortage per turn
Tikal has JT due in 2, so I've queued up worker in 1 - I know we said no Governor orders - should food shortage be an exception?

Horse now W of Salamanca heading for Iroq Horse resource (to pillage - but this may not be necesary??)
2 JTs in forest SS of Salamanca
Elite JT heading N (on oasis) SE of Salamanca
JT moved NE onto mine/road tile S of Salamanca

2 JT now in position S of Niagara

4 Iroq workers building road SE of Allegheny (in 2)

There are 2 JT/2 Sett moved to/just N of Yax - no destination set
There are JT moved to/S of Palenque - no destination set
2 JT E of Tikal moving N to Yax

JT S of Qui -> Catteragus
JT N of Catteragus fortified (at least 3 units in Catteragus - poss incl 1 archer - saw some AI movement earlier)

New CI Settler en route to Yax (destination Yax)
3 workers sent to build roads in forest area N of Piedras Negras
4 SW moved vicinity of CI - suggest move N in order to build roads for new settlements

Built embassy with Aztecs (65 gold) - they're now cautious towards us, not annoyed!

201 gold + 35gpt, Currency in 2

The Big Picture - 470BC

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Handover Notes:
Since it's getting late here, and I have taken an age to play just five turns and write this report (and edit and upload all the screenshots!) have decided to hand over early - at 5 turns - and let someone else have fun finishing off the Iroquois! Hope this is okay!
Perhaps in war time we might consider adopting a five turn succession?

Cities captured: Allegheny, Oil Springs and Grand River
Units lost: 3 Javelin Throwers

Unit roster:
3 Sett / 12 Worker / 12 Warrior / 1 Spear / 1 Horse / 21 JT / 2 Curragh
2 Barb Workers / 6 Iroq Workers

In production:
4 JT / 3 Horse

Suggest new Horses off W towards unknown Iroq city?
Think we have PLENTY of units to finish this - so after 4 JT / 3 Horse produced consider starting Temples, Markets (once Currency is discovered in 2 turns).
Keep a good eye on citizen happiness - a few cities on fine balance!
Alliance with Aztecs redundant - Iroq can be defeated easily enough alone
As stated above - pretty sure there are at least 3 units in Catteragus - incl an archer!

Over and out for tonight - I must go eat!
Fruno

> Saved game attached below [Mac Mayaniac of the Maya, 470 BC.SAV]

Roster:
Beamup (on deck)
dojoboy
Serkhon
Blue Monkey (missed turn)
frunobulax (just played)
Aoxomoxoa (up!)

 

[dojoboy]

Annoyed Iroq demand we withdraw our forces from Grand River - we refuse - it's war!

You realize, you have now sealed the fate of the Aztecs. We must destory them before the rest of the world learns of our treachery.

Great turns, sounds like fun. I've no problem w/ you ending in 5 turns - gracious. But, feel free to continue for the rest.

 

[Beamup]

Cities captured: Allegheny, Oil Springs and Grand River
Units lost: 3 Javelin Throwers

Unit roster:
3 Sett / 12 Worker / 12 Warrior / 1 Spear / 1 Horse / 21 JT / 2 Curragh
2 Barb Workers / 6 Iroq Workers

In production:
4 JT / 3 Horse

Well played! You've damaged the Iro badly already, for minimal cost.

Think we have PLENTY of units to finish this - so after 4 JT / 3 Horse produced consider starting Temples, Markets (once Currency is discovered in 2 turns).

Maybe swap the JTs to Horse, for a total of 7? JTs may have difficulty reaching the front in time to be useful, if we carry on so sucessfully!

 

[Blue Monkey]

Maybe swap the JTs to Horse, for a total of 7? JTs may have difficulty reaching the front in time to be useful, if we carry on so sucessfully!

I agree. Adding to our flexibility (speed of response) helps in the long run, as well as our immediate campaign.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Your faithful Aoxo reports the last two century as follows:

Turn 1 - 450 BC - Shifted all JT's to Horsemen where possible. Lots of settlers waiting. Directed troops to Cattaragus, Niagara Falls and Salamanca. Trying to pick off a settler heading to the NNE.

Turn 2 - 430 BC - Killed an archer near Cattarugus. Continued moving troops into place. Discovered Currency, moved to construction.

Turn 3 - 410 BC - Attacked Cattagus, and placed our own govt. there. Did not lose a troop. Sent settler south of Lagotero. Horseman attacks spear/settler, retreats : (.

Turn 4 - 390 BC - Attacked Salamanca, won some lost many, he had 1 hp left in city. AARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! Got the settler and spearman. Didn't get Iron is unhappy. Iro galley moving south along our coast. Garrisoned workers in Didn;t get Iron.

Turn 5 - 370 BC - Captured Salamanca and installed our own govt. Massing on Niagara Falls and Tonawanda. Started Granary in Allegheny. This can be another settler producer.

Turn 6 - 350 BC - More troop movements. Citizens getting a little war weary already. Founded Cuello.

Turn 7 - 330 BC - Same as above.

Turn 8 - 310 BC - Conquered Niagara Falls. Installed our governor. Troops moving to Tonawanda. Began shifting production off of military to Libraries.

Turn 9 - 290 BC - Conquered Tonawanda and raised it. Settler heading toward spot 1 square NE to get next to river and get access to wheat right away. Will be there in two turns. Tulum founded. Traded currency to Aztecs for his 75g treasury.

Turn 10 - 270 BC - More movement toward Mauch Chunk. Stupid barbs made all their spearman elites there.. Sigh. Founded Coba. Settler heading to gems north of Salamanca, settler heading to south of Cuello. Sent science to feudalism. If this is the bad choice, change before Saving turn.

Notes:
Iro's gone in 2-3 turns, massive expansion move. Also, lets start risking galleys across the seas. Need to make contact. We grew by 6 cities, with 3 more close to building.

View attachment Mac Mayaniac of the Maya, 270 BC.SAV.zip

 

[frunobulax]

Good work, but we should keep Chichen Itza pumping out settlers and not waste time building a temple at this stage - we need settlers by the barrel load! Same with Salamanca, surely?

 

[Beamup]

Looks great! I'll finish off Mauch Chunk, do a bunch of expansion and infrastructure, and try to get overseas to make contact.

One of my priorities is to get cities up to size 7. Due to Republic support parameters, each size 7 city is worth 4 gpt over size 6.

Got it. I don't intend to start play immediately, though, so comments are welcome. Especially with regard to our research path.

 

[dojoboy]

Looks great! I'll finish off Mauch Chunk, do a bunch of expansion and infrastructure, and try to get overseas to make contact.

One of my priorities is to get cities up to size 7. Due to Republic support parameters, each size 7 city is worth 4 gpt over size 6.

Got it. I don't intend to start play immediately, though, so comments are welcome. Especially with regard to our research path.

Sounds good Beamup. Since we're not aiming as yet, if ever, to move on the Aztecs, perhaps we should research through the Education branch - picking off the economic and culture techs.

 

[Beamup]

Looking at the save, I note that Iroquois territory is very badly corrupt. Indeed, almost completely corrupt. Therefore, the question of FP placement and timing has become acute - and should be discussed before I play.

I propose that Salamanca build the FP immediately. Well, almost immediately - looking at the current waste figures, I think it'll actually be faster to build a Courthouse first. Yes, we'd like to build Settlers there - but it's so corrupt that would be difficult to do in a timely fashion.

 

[dojoboy]

I propose that Salamanca build the FP immediately. Well, almost immediately - looking at the current waste figures, I think it'll actually be faster to build a Courthouse first. Yes, we'd like to build Settlers there - but it's so corrupt that would be difficult to do in a timely fashion.

I think that is a safe choice. The FP is not as effective as it is in Civ3/PTW, and building it too far from the capital can be ineffectual. There was a discussion on this back when Conquests came up, but... .

 

[Blue Monkey]

The FP is not as effective as it is in Civ3/PTW, and building it too far from the capital can be ineffectual. There was a discussion on this back when Conquests came up, but... .

If you remember where it is, a link would be appreciated. Having absorbed so many cities quickly, it's important to regain all that production/gp bound up in corruption. Is there anyway to know how much is really distance/corruption, and what's resistance or WW since the war goes on?

 

[AlanH]

Try this thread for an overview of the main differences between the Classic and C3C games. Also check the Civ3 Strategy Articles for threads by Alexman on Corruption.

 

[Beamup]

Is there anyway to know how much is really distance/corruption, and what's resistance or WW since the war goes on?

Yes - since resistance and WW don't directly produce corruption or waste. If they send the city into disorder, that's one thing - but they don't do anything themselves. All of the corruption and waste are due to distance and number of cities.

 

[Beamup]

I've been doing preflight checkups here. Still haven't hit End Turn, and I've got enough written I'll go ahead and report in multiple posts.

Preflight check:
It appears from prior comments and my shadowing that The Great Barbarian Uprising occured during Aoxomoxoa's turn. This would indicate that at least two of the other civs have entered the Middle Ages before us, but only slightly. Hence, it appears we have approximate tech parity with the other civs.

We are #1 in most demographics, including all of the important ones, and have 34% of the world's population!

Our RoP reputation is definitely hosed. That may hurt us in the long run unless we wipe out Azteca before they can contact the other civs (i.e. Navigation/Magnetism).

Current units:
3 Settlers, 17 Workers
14 Warriors, 2 Spearmen, 17 Horsemen, 15 JTs
2 Curraghs
13 Iroquois workers, 2 Barbarian workers

For an effective total of 22 of our Workers for 22 cities. We just need to keep our Worker production up with our Settler production. Our military is currently costing us a mind-boggling 84 GPT. We must not build any more units, as that's almost a third of our Golden Age income. In fact, we may need to start disbanding Warriors.

People aren't too happy, but that should let up once the Iroquois are eliminated once and for all.

We have 5 Horsemen in position to strike Mauch Chunk next turn. That should be adequate for a city that can't possibly have more than 1 or 2 Spearmen in it.

I also observe a large number of units on Go To orders. We should avoid this at handoff so people don't get confused about what's where and why!

There are Anasazi near Coba. Will deploy JTs to deal with it.

In terms of management, we have lots of completely pointless entertainers, and too much extra military being built. Given the soon-to-be-very-precarious state of our finances (and the extra happy face), I emphasize Marketplaces over Libraries unless we need culture in the city.

CI: Temple->Settler. There is zero point to a Temple here until it grows a LOT.
Salamanca: Temple->Courthouse, FP should be next.
Niagara Falls: Spearman->Galley (to try and make contact).
Copan: Only one entertainer is needed. MM for shields, as it's going to be quite hard to keep happy any bigger. Library->Marketplace.
Palenque: Taxman can go back to work. MM for growth. Library->Marketplace.
Tikal: No need for entertainer. Library->Marketplace.
Grand River: MM for growth.
Allegheny: Entertainer->Scientist. Barracks->Marketplace.
Bonampak: Horseman->Marketplace. Use the Furs! Why work a regular forest when there's one with a resource available? Needs Worker help badly.
Cattaraugus: Barracks->Galley. MM for growth.
Quirigua: Entertainers are superfluous. One put back to work, one becomes Scientist. Library->Marketplace.
Oil Springs: Temple->Library. MM for growth.
Calakmul: Entertainer is completely pointless. Put him back to work. Library->Marketplace.
Didn't Get Iron: Library->Marketplace.
Kaminaljuyu: Library->Marketplace.
Piedras Negras: MM for growth. Library->Marketplace.
Tulum: Not a good worker production site, but more are needed, I suppose. No change.
Uaxactun: Harbor left to complete so city can be a fishing village.
Cuello: Warrior->Library.
Coba: See Tulum.

Now that we have the Pyramids, I also sell the old Granaries in CI and Tikal, for a free 30 gold.

Research changed to Monotheism. Surplus garrisons in some cities redeployed.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

The reason I put CI on a temple was precisely to build the pop back up. We had slipped so that the last settler created took us down to 2 population.

I figured we could roll a few extra settlers out of some of our near 30 cities while CI got it's pop up to that 6-8 area.

Allegheny should also be developed into a settler factory. Salamanca too, once corruption gets under control.

Sorry about the go-to's, and obviously the entertainer extravagance.

Aoxo

 

[Beamup]

The reason I put CI on a temple was precisely to build the pop back up. We had slipped so that the last settler created took us down to 2 population.

And I'll keep an eye on that (it's OK right now, but will require monitoring), but a Library or Marketplace would've been a better pick.

 

[dojoboy]

14 Warriors, 17 Horsemen, 15 JTs

That would eliminate the Aztecs. However, can we get to them soon enough?

In terms of management, we have lots of completely pointless entertainers, and too much extra military being built. Given the soon-to-be-very-precarious state of our finances (and the extra happy face), I emphasize Marketplaces over Libraries unless we need culture in the city.

Go for M/Ps. We're really in no danger of losing towns to culture-flips and there are not any key resources needed to necessitate border-pushes. Plus, we could always build a colony if that was the case. I love gpt.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Try this thread for an overview of the main differences between the Classic and C3C games.

Sorry Alan, I don't have the patience to search through eight pages of random comments for the relevent data.


After completing conquest of the Iro, should we use Horsemen to quickly reexplore the northern frontier?

 

[AlanH]

SirPleb's article is a good summary.

 

[Beamup]

Having played 1 turn (and with a fire alarm in the building), I return to update the crew on happenings with major implications, and present what I propose to do.

250 BC (1): Uaxactun Harbor->Marketplace. Starts working the coast to grow faster.

One of our Curraghs sinks a barb Galley, losing 1 bar.

The attack on Mauch Chunk commences!!!
The first Horseman knocks 1 bar off their Elite spear, and retreats.
The second Horseman retreats after dealing NO damage.
Yet I perservere, and the third knocks off 2 more bars before dying. A Regular is revealed.
Our fourth Horseman charges into the breach! He redlines the spear for no damage! But then he loses 3 rounds in a row and is redlined himself! But he carries through and destroys the Spear - and promotes to Elite!
Our final Horseman knocks off one bar in the first round, is redlined by losing three in a row, then finishes the final Spearman in Mauch Chunk! It's a decent spot, so I keep it (along with a Worker). Set to Library.

But what's that? The Iroquois survive! Must have had a Settler on that galley near Didn't Get Iron. *scroll over* No... that Galley's gone... AARGH! As soon as Mauch Chunk was destroyed, they got a new city up by Aztec territory - St. Regis. I know for a fact that they didn't have it at the beginning of the turn, as it didn't show up in peace negotiations.

OK, where do we go from here? We can get 100 gold and a Worker for peace (which they also didn't have at the beginning of the turn). It will take 12 turns for any of our Horsemen to reach St. Regis. WW is becoming significant. Accordingly, I propose to sign peace, send our troops off to St. Regis, and when they get there, crush the enemy (the penalties for breaking a peace treaty are minor). Or we could wait a few extra turns before the attack, to let 20 expire and reduce the penalties further. I don't think staying at war that long is such a good option due to WW.

I do NOT believe we have the troops to take out Azteca at this point. They have 18 cities right now, and will have more by the time our army reaches them. OTOH, if we build up for a Knight assault, the other civs will never know of our perfidious dealings with our fellow Americans...