Computer Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread II

CPU Because I want to future-proof this baby. Will be expensive for a long time, but I'm not looking at another computer purchase for a long time.

edit: the apparently better (and cheaper) one cardgame suggested.

Motherboard


Graphics Card

Ram

Storage

blu-ray/dvd drive

case. (I know pricewise I shouldn't spend this much for a case. But because it's gotta be pimped.)

power supply

I already have a standard keyboard and mouse but I'll eventually get pimped ones. But I'll buy all these parts first.

edit: 1270, not including tax. But this is gonna be PIMPED.
 
Ah yes, I forgot the power supply. You should take a look at /r/buildapc, they can help you get the best build for your needs. pcpartpicker.com looks at all the parts and showcases the cheapest, makes sure the parts are compatible.

For example, something /r/buildapc could help you with is your CPU and motherboard. Both are outdated and overpriced. An i5-4460 is newer, superior, and cheaper, and it fits an H87/97 mobo. Z-class mobos are not any better than others (but more expensive) if you don't have an unlocked (K-series) CPU for overclocking (OC is totally unnecessary btw). You'll also want to make sure your motherboard can support 2400mhz RAM; many cannot, and that would be a waste of cash to pay extra for 2400 if you can only make use of 1600.
 
@caketasty

You don't need a lot of the stuff you're linking. If I understand it correctly you want to play current gen console type games (i.e., AAA titles like Assassin's Creed, Metal Gear Solid, GTA V, etc. etc.) at 1080p yes? Doing this for $1000 is very doable. You can do it for less.

PC Hound Part List - Hound-O-Matic (Alpha) Results

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M Pro4 ($74.5 @ Amazon)
Memory: PANRAM 16GB (2 x 8GB) Ninja Series ($38.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 970 GV-N970WF3OC-4GD ($303.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 520W S12II 520 Bronze ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial 1TB BX100 CT1000BX100SSD1 ($309.99 @ TigerDirect)
Case: Fractal Design FD-CA-DEF-S-BK ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1,037.44
Price may include shipping, rebates, promotions, and tax
Generated by PC Hound

You mentioned wanting good sound... what's your setup? If you want high quality surround 7.1 for example for movies, then get a sound card and don't bother paying through the nose for a more expensive motherboard touting high performance audio. But for gaming you're wasting your money as most games, as far as I know, don't use high quality source audio anyway.

CPU Because I want to future-proof this baby. Will be expensive for a long time, but I'm not looking at another computer purchase for a long time.

edit: the apparently better (and cheaper) one cardgame suggested.

Motherboard


Graphics Card

Ram

Storage

blu-ray/dvd drive

case. (I know pricewise I shouldn't spend this much for a case. But because it's gotta be pimped.)

power supply

I already have a standard keyboard and mouse but I'll eventually get pimped ones. But I'll buy all these parts first.

edit: 1270, not including tax. But this is gonna be PIMPED.
Some notes on your choices:

Both of the motherboards you linked, i.e. the one in the quoted post above and that MSI motherboard in your most recent post, are incompatible with your CPU. Tye MSI one is actually for AMD chips. Don't bother with a Z model, as this is unnecessary since you selected a non "K" CPU. Non K Intel CPU's cannot be overclocked. Get a H model instead if you are not going to overclock.

Your RAM is overpriced. 2400 MHz does little to nothing in gaming on Intel CPU's. Also big heatspreaders are mostly useless marketing gimmicks. As a general rule of thumb in buying PC hardware, anything with overly "gamer" marketing pizzaz ("Vengeance," "Republic of Gamers," blah blah blah) is probably overpriced and to be avoided. Just buy cheap DDR3 1600 RAM.

970 is the most you will ever need for 1080p gaming for years to come. Great card. Very power efficient. You will max out everything (or almost max it out) for the next few years at 1080p.

Blu-ray... people still use these things?

PSU... if you're going to blow a bunch of money on a build, buy a good PSU. This no name PSU is not a good idea. Get something from a quality manufacturer like Seasonic or FSP. 550w is more than enough.

Case...to each their own. I prefer the more minimalist look.
 
I agree yours is better. The price of those specs + the optical drive (yes I want that, lol), the pimped out case and Windows 10 OS should bring the total to 1267. edit: which is actually a much cheaper build, because the previous price I listed of 1270 didn't include the monitor price ($100) or the windows 10 price ($110). So it's a $210 cheaper build, and it would actually work. :)

Yeah that would save me money and as you say, a build that would actually work. God I am such a noob at this.

edit: deciding between these two monitors, can't really tell the difference

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S220HQL-Abd-21-5-Inch-Widescreen/dp/B005LJWJSG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442988988&sr=8-1&keywords=1920+1080+monitor

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-G226HQL-Bbd-21-5-inch-Widescreen/dp/B009POS0GS/ref=pd_sim_147_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=17K2R6JMDSYS9Q5QTWF6&dpID=41vQQo6HpgL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_
 
A 1 TB SSD is a lot. I have a 480 GB one and I haven't even bothered to move anything to a hard disk yet. And I still have 150 GB left with lots of games and other apps. So you could save a few pennies here if money is tight.

I would also recommend getting a hard disk for backups and archiving large files you don't access much. I have mine set to spin down after 10 min so they are rarely even on.

I completely agree about the PSU. Get a good one that is bigger than what you currently need. For this system I'd look for a 650W one. This is well worth spending some extra bucks here. Cheaper PSUs are prone to fail and are a real PITA when they do.

Fractal Design cases are works of art. They are so good I don't see how anybody else even stays in business anymore. But I don't like front doors like the one Illram suggested has. My previous system has a front door and it was a PITA that was always threatening to break off. Maybe Fractal has done a better job of it though.

This is the one I have:

Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 FD-CA-ARC-R2-BL-W Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

It is simply fantastic.

An added benefit is that the PSU is at the bottom where it is cooler. It is so cool down there the fan on my PSU doesn't even come on all that often.

I would also highly recommend liquid cooling. The intel I5s run extremely hot while gaming. I see 80 degree C all the time even with liquid cooling. I got the older version of this, and I am extremely happy with it:

Corsair Hydro Series™ H80i GT High Performance Water/Liquid CPU Cooler. 120mm
 
Lian-Li and Silverstone both have excellent cases too. My HTPC micro-ATX case with with eight drives: Lian-Li PC-V354.

Spoiler :
Image_03.jpg


The i5 (and any of Intel's range, for that matter) run cooler than anything in the past, or any AMD chips for equivalent gaming performance, so dunno what you're comparing to. Liquid cooling is kind of a waste of money for anything sensibly priced - any closed loop CPU cooler can be beat by air cooling, and introduces additional complexity and noise.
 
My i5 (Haswell) is running on stock heatsink/fan and doing just fine, hasn't been above 75C.
 
Lian Li cases are made of aluminum so they are a lot noisier than those made of steel. I think they all still use 80 mm fans instead of 120 mm, so they generate a lot more noise because they run faster and are less efficient at cooling the system.

75 C is still really high for CPU temperatures. Some graphics-intensive games like WoT really give it a workout, at least if you run it at maximum graphics settings which is where I see 80 C if I play for a while. Anything that gets all 8 hardware threads cooking away at near 100% load is going to generate a lot of heat. Even some video processing apps use all the threads at max cycles and do the same thing.

I am extremely glad that I got a liquid cooling system. It is really no fuss, extra robust with no real chance of springing a leak, and it takes a lot of the heat away from the motherboard area to the top of the case where the radiator and fans are mounted, so the interior around the electronics stays a lot cooler than normal. All the reviewers give it high marks for working far better than a fan and heatsink. It was also quite simple to install. The area around the CPU is also a lot less cluttered.

EDIT: I was going to post a review showing how well it worked compared to other fan/heatsink combinations. But it turns out the new H80I GT sucks.

This is a real disappointment. The much bigger H110I is still the top performer in this particular test, even in the new "GT" form. The old H80I used to be right below it in the tests. But now it is way down the list. It only works moderately well at the high setting, which is incredibly noisy. You definitely don't want to run it at the high setting. It will drive you nuts.

So I still recommend some sort of liquid cooling system. But the new H80I GT is definitely not it.

Based on these test results, I'd probably even look at a different vendor altogether, like the Fractal Designs Kelvin S36.

This is an even far better arrangement in the Fractal Design cases because it uses the very top fans instead of the back fan. I may very well get one of these for my own system. Things have progressed a lot in a bit over a year when I built my system. But it does seem the Fractal Designs cooler is a lot noisier than others, so something else entirely may very well be the optimal one.
 
Lian Li cases are made of aluminum so they are a lot noisier than those made of steel.

Mostly a matter of specific construction characteristics rather than simply panel material. SilverStone cases are best in class for acoustic properties, and are unibody aluminum with steel frames.

I think they all still use 80 mm fans instead of 120 mm, so they generate a lot more noise because they run faster and are less efficient at cooling the system.

120 and 140.

80mm fans are awful. Only things I still owned with 80mm fans were some 4-bay drive enclosures, and I got tired enough of them that I ripped them apart so I could slap some 120mm fans on top:

Spoiler :

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The much bigger HI110 is still the top performer in this particular test, even in the new "GT" form.

The H100i still often loses in terms of cooling efficiency for the amount of noise it puts out.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h100i-elc240-seidon-240m-lq320,3380-13.html

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it takes a lot of the heat away from the motherboard area to the top of the case where the radiator and fans are mounted, so the interior around the electronics stays a lot cooler than normal.

That really depends - if you're replacing exhaust fans with a radiator, you're just losing fans that were formerly blowing on mobo components. One of the foremost downsides to closed loop coolers is that they only cool the cpu.

Extensive reddit thread on why people pick CLCs.

This is an even far better arrangement in the Fractal Design cases because it uses the very top fans instead of the back fan.

Probably relatively small impact, but the best-performing cases tend to have a similar configuration.

Silverstone FT05, intake in the bottom, exhaust (including PSU/GPU) out the top:

FT05-Full-Build.jpg
 
75C was a conservative guess based on memory. Just checked the actual temps and Empire: Total War with everything to Ultra won't push it above 60.

It will only hit 75-ish if I'm cranking all the cores converting video files with Handbrake or something. Or maybe going absolutely crazy in KSP, haven't checked. Point is, it's fine :p
 
The H100i still often loses in terms of cooling efficiency for the amount of noise it puts out.
Again, nobody in their right mind runs those coolers on maximum. It would literally drive you nuts. But based on the data from that last review I posted, you can likely now do better as far as noise vs cooling is concerned.

But the bottom line is still the same. A liquid cooled system will do a lot to reduce the CPU temperatures compared to an air-cooled design.

That really depends - if you're replacing exhaust fans with a radiator, you're just losing fans that were formerly blowing on mobo components. One of the foremost downsides to closed loop coolers is that they only cool the cpu.
Having an internal radiator without fans would be ridiculous.

The Noctua fans are also monstrosities. One of the things the reviews usually don't mention is that the assembly instructions for these huge heat pipe affairs state that they should be removed before the system is ever transported anyplace:

65abf57e_vbattach173038.jpeg


Probably relatively small impact, but the best-performing cases tend to have a similar configuration.

Silverstone FT05, intake in the bottom, exhaust (including PSU/GPU) out the top:
This costs twice as much as a Fractal Design Arc does. With conventional case design it makes a lot of sense to have the PSU at the bottom where the air is much cooler.
 
Again, nobody in their right mind runs those coolers on maximum.

The chart and review include both auto and max.

A liquid cooled system will do a lot to reduce the CPU temperatures compared to an air-cooled design.

No, that's really not the case with modern air cooling. You lose efficiency moving heat to the radiator versus an on-chip heatsink, so you need a bigger rad for equivalent cooling.

Having an internal radiator without fans would be ridiculous.

Which is why I never suggested that. If you're replacing a CPU blower with a case-edge rad+fans, you're losing fans that were formerly blowing on the mobo.

Right. as though this exotic, highly unusual, and quite pricey configuration is what is being discussed here.

Yes, we're discussing it now. Are you okay?

With conventional case design it makes a lot of sense to have the PSU at the bottom where the air is much cooler.

Why would air be cooler at the bottom in conventional case design?
 
The coolest options in this particular benchmark are all water:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPUCooling/772

If you install the radiator at the top of the case, you don't lose any fans "blowing on the CPU" because they are all directed outward.

Hot air rises, which is why having the PSU at the bottom of traditional architecture cases is superior. All the better cases have this arrangement.
 
Duplicate post. Plz delete.
 
The coolest options in this particular benchmark are all water:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPUCooling/772

For the most part, they're also loud. Not to mention expensive, and prone to mechanical failure.

If you install the radiator at the top of the case, you don't lose any fans "blowing on the CPU" because they are all directed outward.

Who are you quoting with "blowing on the CPU"? Certainly not me. You no longer have the fan from the CPU cooler which would blow on the mobo if you didn't have a rad. That's entire point of having the rad.

Hot air rises, which is why having the PSU at the bottom of traditional architecture cases is superior.

How does that follow?

All the better cases have this arrangement.

Well no, see see this case, in case you've forgotten:

FT05-Full-Build.jpg
 
I bought a new video card. A Saphire Radeon HD 6970. When installed into my PC, there's no output from it. Any ideas why?
 
Have you connected the DVI/HDMI to it, or to the mobo? Has to be on the card.

Is it seated firmly in the PCI-E slot? Do its fan spin, etc.?
 
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