Condensed tips for beginners?

What's wrong with settling? Best GP as settled, and since you're doing it early you get the max benefit out from that. If you don't want to rush TGL, settling is pretty much a no-brainer. Unless you want to sit on the guy for millenia to ensure you have a GE to found Mining Inc, that can be a viable choice in some circumstances.

well 2hammers, 3beakers (if I remember correctly) and no rep for a long time didnt saw as that attractive to me. Maybe you're right that I could get back a lot with settling.
Would you propose settle in prod city or cap or commerce city which probably will struggle with prod.?

The thing with GL is that I have no marble, am no ind and didnt beeline Lit. kind of, but maybe tech situation will be in my favor and I could built it on my own, GL is one of those early techs that I usually try to get, ignoring all others.
 
well 2hammers, 3beakers (if I remember correctly) and no rep for a long time didnt saw as that attractive to me. Maybe you're right that I could get back a lot with settling.
Would you propose settle in prod city or cap or commerce city which probably will struggle with prod.?

The thing with GL is that I have no marble, am no ind and didnt beeline Lit. kind of, but maybe tech situation will be in my favor and I could built it on my own, GL is one of those early techs that I usually try to get, ignoring all others.
it's 3 hammers, 3 beakers
probably enough to get the great library in time, with marble. Not quite enough without. I wouldn't bother for the thing without the mids.
Just go capturing the pyramids and make it all more useful :)
 
Settle in best prod/science city that will get modifiers quickly.

If you don't have Marble, it's even BETTER to use a GE to rush TGL, since you'd otherwise be hard-pressed to be able to build it and Marble/no Marble has no effect on the GE rush hammers. Of course, overall the Lit path is much less lucrative without IND/Marble.
 
Yesterday I started a game with Mansa Musa and came to interresting situation that I would love some feedback.

Generally I tried Oracle -> MC slingshot and managed to get Oracle, started immediately Forge (it's UB of MM) and after it completed I started Great Engineer gpp. The chance wasnt spectacular, because the forge came a bit too late (had already too much chopped around so the forge was late), but afterall I got him.
Too bad the mids went few turns sooner.

How you would use GE in my situation? (it's around 300 BC)
Settling is not that attractive. He can partially bulb Machinery. Or hurry something. But I dont have open many wonders and even if I did I can't find (except for GL,that i would have first research lit for) good one except mids that are gone.

You didn't mention whether Golden Age is an option so I'll assume it's not. GL is one of the best wonders in the game but like everything, you have to know how to use it. I used to play an Oracle slingshot strategy, but recently switched to a strategy of early Aesthetics to trade to AI, researching Lit and building GL early, then using GS economy in the capital to bulb Lib first. (Once you get Phil, go Pac. for a while to get the GPs. Caste also an option for this, but I prefer sticking with Slavery.) The thing is, you have the opportunity to try a game where you've done BOTH the Slingshot and the GL strategy, assuming the Lit research doesn't take you too long. Just be sure you DON'T pick up Machinery because that messes up the bulbing for Lib. If possible, put GL and NE in your capital. (Out of this early GL for Lib strategy, you try to pick up Nat as your free tech, get the TM and a Golden Age early, and then beeline for Riflery. Use Golden Ages to switch Civics to Nationhood and use draft to rush a neighbor before they even get gunpowder.)
 
You didn't mention whether Golden Age is an option so I'll assume it's not. GL is one of the best wonders in the game but like everything, you have to know how to use it. I used to play an Oracle slingshot strategy, but recently switched to a strategy of early Aesthetics to trade to AI, researching Lit and building GL early, then using GS economy in the capital to bulb Lib first. (Once you get Phil, go Pac. for a while to get the GPs. Caste also an option for this, but I prefer sticking with Slavery.) The thing is, you have the opportunity to try a game where you've done BOTH the Slingshot and the GL strategy, assuming the Lit research doesn't take you too long. Just be sure you DON'T pick up Machinery because that messes up the bulbing for Lib. If possible, put GL and NE in your capital. (Out of this early GL for Lib strategy, you try to pick up Nat as your free tech, get the TM and a Golden Age early, and then beeline for Riflery. Use Golden Ages to switch Civics to Nationhood and use draft to rush a neighbor before they even get gunpowder.)

GA is of course possibility, but one I would never consider at this stage of game. Empire is small, low pop, not developed with enough cottages to count etc.
I probably will try the TGL afterall, since I teched Aest as usual trade bait, but will delay trading a bit (I have to check if i really have it, since my techs went a bit other way then usually, but I think i teched it after writing and then went for Oracle).

I have no good gp farm yet.mostly will be everything production except for 2 good production sites.
After TGL I think will be time for some tech backfill. But with MM it seems that the science could skyrocket on itself, will see and I managed to steal 2xgold site french under the nose as last turn yesterday I think I should prepare for war (I hope his WHEOORN is for greek and not me).
The game is on Monarch btw.
 
Ok, I'm pretty new to Civ (still at Chieftain diffuculty, but I'm planning to try moving up to warlord soon), but thanks to lurking around here for a while, I already have a vague impression of what's right and what's wrong, and also already read about economies. So I tried the scientist economy in my last game as Gandhi, and it worked pretty well for me, I was teching faster than ever (of course that doesn't mean much....)
Therefore, I of course decided to use it again, this time as Cyrus.
I think I got pretty lucky with my starting position, Persepolis has some pretty nice food production. I got the Pyramids by founding Pasargadae near Stone. Because I didn't want to wait for a culture building and a border pop, it probably isn't ideally placed, but at least settling it there got me the Pyramids and Representation.
Then, I built some more cities and an army consisting of mainly Catapults and Elephants. I declared on my neighboar Sitting Bull (probably not very clever, but Wang Kon is protective as well and somewhat farther away from Persepolis and Mansa Musa has to build 2 shrines for me before I attack him, he seemed like the best target). I took Cahokia and Chaco Canyon and razed Poverty Point (it overlapped too much with Cahokia, I'm planning to resettle it 1N) and Mound City (on the border of the Tundra). I would have let him capitulate when he only had Mound City left, but he didn't want to. I also got a Great General in the war which I'm going to use for my Medic Scout. I also had a Woodsman 3 Warrior, but he got killed by a Barb Axeman on the way home.

So, long story short: I did stuff, and now want some criticism on my city placement and some tips for where to settle my next cities and how to specialize my cities.
(In my Gandhi game I had like 4 scientist cities, a production city and 2 cottaged cities (not on rivers, but because I couldn't build any farms there and they had ressources like Dye, I just focussed them on money. All other cities were just there and I didn#t really know what to do with them.)
Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


The only cities I already know what to do with are Persepolis (Science, I'll probably build Oxford university and National Epic here. Also, I'm trying to get the University of Sankore (as seen above) and the Great Library (which I should probably be building first instead) here) and Ecbatana (Production because of all the hills and a river for Watermills (which wonders here?)). And about the other cities, I don't know yet what to do with in the long run.
Pasargadae is there for its Stone which I needed for the Pyramids and the Elephants.
Susa is for the Copper and the Gold.
Tarsus is for the Horses. Could become a decent production site once the Moai are finished and with some Workshops or Lumbermills.
Gordium was going to prevent Bull from getting these strategic ressources.
Cahokia and Chaco Canyon seemed both pretty good to me, so I kept them.

So, I have all these cities, but to be honest no idea what to do with them any advice?

Also, there are my planned locations for my next few cities on the map.
The one in the west is going to isolate Mansa Musa (not visible on this map, but Timbuktu is only a few tiles away from the western end of it) on his peninsula if I also settle another city farther north. It also has these two food ressources.
So, would blocking Mansa be a good idea? And if so, where should I place the other blocking city?

The city north of Cahokia is where Poverty Point was, just one tile north of it. Looks like a good spot I think, with 2 food ressources and that river.

The tundra city would get me Silver, Deer and Whale, but would that be worth it since apart from that it would be junk (Expecially since it's not going to get Moai). Would that be worth it?

I also think I should place some more filler cities around Pasargadae. Particularly the Cow+Floodplains location looks good. But where exactly?
 
one thing stands out (otherwise its to hard with that far zoom to come with comments) ... you're far to scared for overlap ... and whip you're capital down so you don't have unhappiness ... oh ... and you completely ignored the proberly best place around you ... the FP north of your capital ... can easily make 2 maybe even 3, spendid cottage cities
 
Aljar, I'm wondering if you suicided a lot of catapults in your fight with Sitting Bull instead of using them to bombard his defenses? The AI's calculation of whether to talk to you and whether to capitulate will be affected by how many troops you've lost vs. how many he's lost and they don't take a catapult suicide strategy into account. (Late game, the same strategy with aircraft is fine because they don't count in this calculation.) Also questioning the composition of your army. Elephants usually are slower to build than a lot of other good troops from the same general era and only use them if they make sense in the mix, but not as the bulk of my army. Map shows you've got copper and iron, so why not a Sword stack with a few Axes, Spears and Bows thrown in. Unlike elephants, these guys make decent defenders when you take and keep a city. Also, when you get the techs, and you are almost there, you can start upgrading these units to Maces, Pikes, Longbows and Crossbows and they keep all the promotions you got from earlier conquests. Later on, ALL of them will promote to Rifles and will keep bonuses that a Rifle will not be able to get easily on its own -- such as City Raider. I have a Prince game going right now where my newly built Rifle troops can't do much against the Grenadiers most of my opponents are using, but my old promoted meelee and bow units that got upgraded to Rifles are my elite shock troops and get 96% odds against some opponents where my rookies get only 26% in the same fight. Same type unit, but those promotions make all the difference. One of the main reason for early fights is to build up your elite units like this.

On you questions about Wonders, the Great Library should be an earlier priority, preferably in your capital and with your National Epic.

It's good to hone strategies at low levels that you'll keep using when you start playing more difficult games, but I think the Specialist Economy is overkill before you get to at least Prince level. Even on those higher games, you will need to understand the Cottage Economy and know when and how to use it in some cities. I recommend doing more with Cottages. I can't zoom in very well on your image from my present location, but it looks like you might be neglecting your terrain. The rule of at least 1.5 workers per city to improve terrain, build roads and chop is really important.

One more thing, you didn't say what kind of victory you are pursuing. By this time of the game, it's probably a good idea to have an idea where you are going, with a possible backup plan in case it doesn't work out. Honestly, it looks like Persia could easily win this game in short order if you stay focused. You are probably ready for Warlord and if you're reading this board, you won't stay there long either.
 
Concerning colonies:

1. Do the borders of the cities in the colony need to be contiguous for the AI to spawn a colony?

2. Under what conditions will an AI spawn a colony vs. sitting on overseas territories?

I'm hoping to prey on more weak colonies for my amusement.
 
Not 100 % sure on your two questions, Ergo Sum, but there's a big problem with your plans. The "weak colonies" will be vassals of the strong parent, who will go to war with you if you attack the colonies.
 
Concerning colonies:

1. Do the borders of the cities in the colony need to be contiguous for the AI to spawn a colony?

2. Under what conditions will an AI spawn a colony vs. sitting on overseas territories?

I'm hoping to prey on more weak colonies for my amusement.

Not sure about 1, but I don't think so.

2. I'm also not sure what you mean, but the AI often spawns colonies.

Watch out if you want to prey on colonies, they're usually vassals of their creator and then you'll be at war with both. The creator is often one of the more powerful AI's, so you might not want to mess with him. Also, watch out for diplo penalties from his friends and MPPs.

I don't set up colonies myself. State Property or Forbidden Palace can usually control the costs if you keep the cities.
 
Thanks for the concern. I realize that they will be under the control of more powerful AIs, but I'm doing a sort of RPC, controlling the New World. I feel that taking down colonies is more interesting/satisfying/easier considering the parent civ would be the one with the military might.

To clarify, I was wondering if an AI can/will spawn a colony out of 3 or more cities even if their borders don't touch. Secondly, I was asking for general knowledge regarding the conditions under which an AI will spawn a colony. Thanks!
 
Situation: I'm on my own landmass and my neighbor is Sury (on another landmass but connected by coast). He's pleased with me when suddenly he goes into WHEOORN mode. I check the diplo screen and confirm that I'm the only other civ that he knows about, so I assume he's going to declare war on me. This is in the classical era. I'm scared so I pump out units at a steady pace but he never declares. A few hundred turns later and I'm about to enter the industrial era and he NEVER went out of WHEOORN mode. I even had a defensive pact with him at one point. He's still in WHEOORN mode as I'm teching assembly line.

Question: So was Sury plotting war against me for 3 eras and never declared or is there an alternate explanation to this? Thanks.
 
Two things: First off, how can you be so sure he's the only civ with whom he has contact? He might have had contact with a civ you haven't contacted yet. Second, the AI may go into war prep mode but may not declare war.
 
Two things: First off, how can you be so sure he's the only civ with whom he has contact? He might have had contact with a civ you haven't contacted yet. Second, the AI may go into war prep mode but may not declare war.

Once I reached paper I traded maps with him and saw that indeed I must be the only other civ that he knew about at the time he started preparing for war. And yeah, I'm aware that the AI can call off a war but damn, Sury is really indecisive about this one.
 
Ok, so after playing a few more games on Chieftain and soon Warlord (I haven't finished that Cyrus (I did both reduce Bull's defenses and suicide Catapults by the way, because I was still getting bad odds) one until now though) I've now finally decided to play on Noble. Map is Fractal, Standard, Marathon. So I happen to be Hatshepsut and decide to try a somewhat religious path, and in retrospective I think that was already a mistake. While I did manage to found Buddhism, I have Saladin as a very close neighbor on the somewhat small Island we're on. So, instead of building an early Obelisk and running priests, I was busy building Settlers instead, to get the land between me and Saladin. I probably should just have upon meeting him that early (turn...3? 4? 5?) switched reseach to Animal Husbandry and built some War Chariots...
At least I managed to relegate Saladin to an Island Hopper because Mecca happens to be on the northern end of our Islands.
So the years passed by and besides me planting 2 more cities in the south and having trouble with a very annoying barb Spearman (he killed 3 units and pillaged my only metal, Iron.... Yeah, I'm not very good at fogbusting yet.), not much happened.
Now, the situation is the following: It's 1 AD and Me, Saladin and Gilgamesh form the Buddist Block, while Pacal (who I suppose to have founded Judaism and Christianity as well, because Judaism has been around in the area and he is in Theocracy) and Napoleon are Hindus. That all wouldn't be a problem if my situation would be a bit more favorable, because:
- My land is pretty crappy. I only could fit 5 cities on it before running out of land that isn't Tundra or Mecca.
- Napoleon and Pacal both have enough on their hands. Napoleon hates Saladin more than me, but that doesn't necessarily say anything.
- I don't have much military. I've been busy getting infrastructure. Too busy.

Here are some screenshots of the situation:
Spoiler :

a1-118.jpg

The north. Lots of Calendar ressources, but lacking rivers.
a2-103.jpg

The south. While Elephantine is a decent city (at least I think so), Alexandria does already have Tundra tiles. And, it looks like I forgot to get a garrison there.
a4-85.jpg

The capital. Looks like my best candidate for a great person farm to me, but because I read somewhere that you shouldn't make the capital the Great Person farm, I cottaged those floodplains instead.
a3-95.jpg

And a picture of the entire empire at this point.
a5-81.jpg

Diplomacy. I think it's pretty clear who my friends are and who aren't. Saladin is more hated than me because there are plenty of Hereditary Rule lovers around, and he lacks Monarchy.
a6-75.jpg

The tech situation. Looking good, probably because of the Gold in Thebes and Memphis and the small size of my empire.

So, how should I continue this first Noble game I'm playing? Build a military and hit Napoleon? (with Galleys or wait for Astronomy?)
Get Optics soon, met the civs I haven't met yet and spread Buddhism to them?
Backstab Saladin, take Mecca, take peace and accept the Diplo hit with Gilgamesh?
Turtle and tech?

What about the Tundra, should I get that 2 Deer+Silver location? Or maybe a National Park city south of Alexandria?

Also, there's again the question of city specialization, because at this point I have none. And no idea as well. If I would go for Mecca, I think it would make an ok GP Farm, but apart from that...
 

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@ Aljar,
You are seriously underestimating the value of the land you have available, there are at least 3 sites on your landmass worth settling and the island to the east. All a city really needs to be productive is some food, poor tiles can be compensated for by using specialists.

On GP farming the capital, its usually avoided as Bureacracy is so powerful. If you only have the capital as a viable GP farm then often you are best off moving the Palace. For some reason your capital is using specialists while not woring a goldmine, this is something that shouldn't ever happen, ever.
In this situation I would opt to use a couple of smaller GP farms using the food in the tundra region.

Exploration has been weak, with so little of the map uncovered you lack vital information on your neighbours, you don't know if AIs are on small continents or islands, exactly where AI borders lie, how big they are, et etc. Without that info you can't make an accurate judgment on how they will act, or whether its a good idea to attack.

Lack of Workers is your biggest problem, you have less than half the number you need! Without them your cities are either working weak coast tiles or unimproved tiles and you can't even connect up all those nice calender resources.

City management is another big problem,
  • The capital is running 3 priests while not working a goldmine, this should never happen, ever. For some reason the capital has a courthouse too, when it pretty much never should outsdie of very lategame and corporations.
  • Memphis is also ignoring a goldmine.... and a banana plantation... and a dye plantation in order to work... coast :cry:. Also it does not need a market when your running 100% :science: and can sustain 80%, its not even a holy city. This is easily the worst managed city in your empire
  • Heliopolis doesnt have any improved tiles to work so is using coast, this city would be best off whipping out a worker or two as its pretty worthless without improved tiles.
Learning to use specialists, GP farms and specializing cities is all well and good but all you need to work on to dominate noble is the basics. For now you can largely ignore specialists and great people, and focus on getting enough workers and working the best tiles!
 
Tips for beginners?

1 Have Fun.
2 Restart the game when #2 is nolonger applying.
3 In MP games, find someone else who follows these rules, and you will continue to goto 1.

For variety, select unresrticted leaders in the game setup, and pick the right leader and empire for the job you want to do.
I created a Chart (in my signature) to help with that.

goto 1
 
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