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Condoleezza Rice Testimony

How am I being partisan? To my knowledge FDR did not know about a planed air attack. That is not partisan. I have already said that I would like both Administrations to apologize for there mistakes. That is not partisan. rmsharp brought up an incorrect statement from over 60 years ago and I refuted it HOW IS THAT PARTISAN?
 
Originally posted by rmsharpe


Actually, there was information indicating that there was an unspecified impending attack from Japan, much like the very foggy reports on Al-Qaeda pre-September 11th.

The level of foggyness is up to debate. To my knowledge we knew back in 98 of a plan to use planes as missles. The Bush Administration claims that they did not know of that. We will never know the truth but either way they made mistakes and an apology is usually issued when something like that happens.
 
Suspect credentials? What are you smoking, Sharpo, and where can I get it cheap? The guy was in the top tier of civil service for thirty years and counterterrorism for twelve. Condi, by contrast, is an old shill from the last Shrubministration. Clarke worked with Reagan. Did Reagan complain about him? Did he complain about Reagan? Clarke worked with Bush I. Was either of them ever heard to complain about each other? Clarke worked with Clinton. Again, no problem. Clarke voted for Bush in 2000. Clarke resigned in frustration because BUSH IS AN INCOMPETENT LOON. But of course, the moment he publically complains, he is "disgruntled", has "a bias", and has "a political motive". :rolleyes:

Condi's testimony was unsatisfying. She spent three hours licking Bush's boots and reminding America that everything was really Clinton's fault for not acting. Notice that rmsharpe doesn't accuse HER of having "a bias" or "a political motive"? Condi spent a lot of time touting that wonderful "pre-911 plan" that Bush had to combat Al Qaeda. As yet, there is not the slightest proof that the plan even EXISTED aside from the testimony of her and other current/former Bush figures, since the doc itself is not eligible for declassification due to "security reasons". Yeah, job security - Bush's.

Yes or no, did the Clinton administration drop the ball on al-Qaeda?

Of course!

Here's the question for YOU: what the hell is a "reform" administration doing justifying itself with the constant refrain "Clinton did it too!"...

Clinton aides WARNED their counterparts at the turnover about AQ. They were ignored. The White House and the CIA had multiple clues and leads, all of which were ignored. Before 9-11, the Bush administration was a greater failure in counterterrorism than even Clinton was. Condi's disingenuous claim that 9-11 could not have been stopped is a falsehood, plain and simple. Unlike the previous administration, which has readily admitted its share of the guilt [Bill Clinton and other former BCA figures VOLUNTEERED to testify instead of having to be pressured by the entire media of the Western world], the GBA has frankly been playing the usual Republican game of whitewash, coverup, and fallback lies.

IMHO neither Dems nor Republicans asked Condi any hard questions. The testimony was a waste, a wild goose chase, and now the 9-11 commission has signed a gentleman's agreement to leave the rest of the administration alone. As usual, Dems prove they have zero backbone.
 
Besides, my dislike of Bush is not a result of Partisanship, it is a result of common sense;).
 
Originally posted by GrandMasta Nick
He never had intelligence saying that a Japanese air attack was on the way.

He sure did. Originally they thought Japan would attack somewhere in the Pacific in November.
 
Did he know of it YEARS in advance?

That you PP, you are much more eloquent than me.
 
Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
Suspect credentials?

Yes! Let's go back before the comission started and see what he has to say about Bush and Al-Qaeda. Let's examine Clark's statement.

2002: Bush changed Clinton-era policy of rollback of Al-Qaeda to elimination.

2004: Bush did nothing about elimination Al-Qaeda.

It looks like someone has two stories that contradict each other. Hmm.
 
Originally posted by rmsharpe


Yes! Let's go back before the comission started and see what he has to say about Bush and Al-Qaeda. Let's examine Clark's statement.

2002: Bush changed Clinton-era policy of rollback of Al-Qaeda to elimination.

2004: Bush did nothing about elimination Al-Qaeda.

It looks like someone has two stories that contradict each other. Hmm.

I believe that he was told by the Admistration to highlight, not lie completely, the good aspects of the Adminstration. That is what he said, and given modern politics I believe him.
 
You believe and you suspect, but you don't have any actual evidence to back any of these claims up with.
 
I am just relaying what the Clarke said. Whay I meant by "I believe" is "IIRC".
 
The records of the commission can be found here.
 
(on edit, it seems I took too long and Pontiuth beat me to most of it. oh well :) )

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Yes or no, did the Clinton administration drop the ball on al-Qaeda?

In the words of Richard Clarke himself:

'The Clinton administration stopped Iraqi terrorism against the United States, through military intervention. It stopped Iranian terrorism against the United States, through covert action. It stopped the al-Qaida attempt to have a dominant influence in Bosnia. It stopped the terrorist attacks at the millennium. It stopped many other terrorist attacks, including on the U.S. embassy in Albania. And it began a lethal covert action program against al-Qaida; it also launched military strikes against al-Qaida''

source (requires clicking through an ad)

Anyhow, though the Clinton Administration didn't manage to stop Al-Qaeda, this compares rather favourably with the next administration who didn't drop the ball there, but only because they had no idea where the ball was.

Originally posted by rmsharpe
As well, I'd also like to know where this Mr. Clarke agained all of his credibility from.

'Well, he was counterterrorism czar under two presidents, appointed crisis manager on 9/11 by Rice and served under four presidents in all, spending nearly 30 years in public office, so I imagine people could benefit from listening to someone as experienced as him.

Originally posted by rmsharpe

I'd say the testimony of Dr. Rice is far more credible than the suspect credentials of Mr. Clarke.

You would :p. But it seems to me that Rice and the others were quite prepared to fight the last (cold) war when the new one had already started. I remember an International Relations class I took in college in 1997 (or 98, not sure), taught by an American, which already stressed the importance of non-state actors and the way the end of the Cold War had changed international relations. The signs that it wasn't all about missile defense anymore were all there; moreover, we know that Rice and Bush were explicitly warned about Al-Qaeda by Clinton and others.
Yet as late as 9/11 Rice was preparing a policy (and would have outlined it in a speech that day according to the WP to promote missile defense as the cornerstone of US national security.

Apparently though, you're guilty of partisanship by definition if you make the White House look bad, but given how badly they got it wrong, making it look bad seems rather inevitable to me if you want to get to the bottom of things.
 
Too bad Rice didn't have a well-timed book to promote! She'd be raking it in with all this free press!
 
Originally posted by rmsharpe


Actually, there was information indicating that there was an unspecified impending attack from Japan, much like the very foggy reports on Al-Qaeda pre-September 11th.

These "attack plans" you speak of were of possible invasions of the Phillipeans or British Malaya. On the other hand, there was strong evidence to believe that airliners would be used as missiles.

Clarke said himself in the testinomy that 9/11 could have been prevented.
 
BBC has a clip of Rice's testimony on their pages, which I watched. (If the original testimony was 3 hours, I don't know which parts I missed). Anyway, what a blatant piece of propaganda it was. :rolleyes:

Some quotes:

"The terrorist threat to our nation did not emerge on September 11, 2001. Long before that day, radical, freedom-hating terrorists declared war on America and on the civilised world..."

"And as an officer of government on duty that day, I will never forget the sorrow and the anger that I felt, nor will I forget the courage and resilience of the American people, nor the leadership of the president that day."

"Because we acted in Iraq, Saddam Hussein will never again use weapons of mass destruction against his people or his neighbours, and we have convinced Libya to give up all its weapons of mass destruction-related programs and materials..."

"Was no misuse of information - "I'm quite certain the president never pushed anybody to twist the facts" on Iraq"

Well, I'm quite certain this testimony doesn't prove anything. I got the impression that her speech was purposely overly long and obscure to confuse any opponents. She also tried to appeal to people's emotions with propaganga-like phrases and used questionable generalisations, for which was provided only little evidence.
 
And this was different from what Clarke did?

Personally, I feel the partisan grandstanding throughout these hearings has been shamefull. The Democrats kept making speeches about Iraq, and the Republicans kept throwing soft-ball questions. People on both sides spouted their party's line with very little apparent interest in finding out what was happening in the decade leading up to 9-11. When you saw someone's face appear on the screen, you already knew EXACTLY what kind of bs was going to come out of their mouth.

This has been an utter farce from beginning to end. Reminds me of the Warren Commission.
 
Well this thread seems to be a liberal circle jerk, I guess when schools out all the kiddies come to play.
 
Hindsight is 20-20 and as humans we all make mistakes.

Demanding an apology from anyone other than those who worked to carry out 9/11 is inane.

Clarke is a weasel and Rice isn't about to say one word with any substance.
 
Originally posted by jb1964
Hindsight is 20-20 and as humans we all make mistakes.

Demanding an apology from anyone other than those who worked to carry out 9/11 is inane.

Clarke is a weasel and Rice isn't about to say one word with any substance.

About the smartest thing said in this thread up to now. :)
 
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