cool3a2s optimized hungarian leaderheads
- Thread starter cool3a2
- Start date
AbsintheRed
Deity
I think he is implying that since these appear to be the leaders of his Magyar mod that his LH was made in vain (i.e. without concrete purpose).
EDIT: Don't worry, he's in my module.
Hehe. Just one thing
This is cool3a2's optimizied leaderhead thread. Even the previous Kossuth did not need optimization, it's a compliment he is not here
The hungarian mod is right here, and Kossuth v2 is in there at least since I'm here, probably much earlier.
Furthermore cool3a2 already said at least 3-4 times (in your thread too), that he likes the new Kossuth (v3) very much and he will definitely go in in the next update of the mod.
So I really don't see what's your problem here...
The Capo
godless Heathen
I got no problem. I think Ekmek may have misunderstood the point of the thread though.
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
I think so, too. Just to make things clear: Absinthe is right, it is actually a compliment that none of Ekmeks Kossuth is here, because I had nothing to optimize. In contrast, it would be quite barefaced if I would have put his Kossuth amongst these leaders as this would look like I would have done that LH or at least like I would have worked on it and try to get the honour for it. That's why I didn't do that. Hope this clears every misunderstandings.
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
So this is the updated version of Széchenyi. Although he doesn't look as depressive as I wanted him to, he at least lost aggressiveness and arrogance compared to Zervers original version.
Note: This is just a beta - that means, that there are still problems:
- the eyes don't work 100% correctly
- one finger is distorted
- the arms collide with the torso and the fur (which is why I left the camera untouched)
- the background isn't set up perfectly
- the shader maps could need some improvement (if the spec maps of the furs and the torso would be brighter, the body would look less dark, I think)
There might be even more problems that I am not aware of as I checked most of the animations in nifskope only and didn't take much time for that so far. So feel free to report problems with this LH. But take in consideration that I am somewhat frustrated with this, so please be friendly, okay?
At the moment, I think I could fix the shader maps myself so that the body would be brighter. Also, I could correct the background, but at the moment, I don't want to, because I found a camera adjustment that I would prefer and that the background would fit to. Unfortunately, if the other camera adjustment is applied, it will get obvious that the arms collide with the body here and here. This would need to edit the animations, I think, but this is beyond my skills. Also, I am unable to fix the finger. Technically, I know how to rig and I roughly understand how this bone animation thing works, but in practice, I just don't know how to start with that. I am even unable to find out the right vertices (they are just a few, an experienced LH modder would need only a few minutes, I believe...), not to mention that I don't know what could be the correct values for their weights. At least, it seems to me that the finger in question is lined up with the bone correctly...
The eyes only cause a little trobule when the head rotates a lot. And even then, they seemed to be strange, but not necessarily distorted. So if nothing helps, they might be kept as they are.
And this is why I posted this beta here: to find out more glitches and to get some help from experienced modders.
Note: This is just a beta - that means, that there are still problems:
- the eyes don't work 100% correctly
- one finger is distorted
- the arms collide with the torso and the fur (which is why I left the camera untouched)
- the background isn't set up perfectly
- the shader maps could need some improvement (if the spec maps of the furs and the torso would be brighter, the body would look less dark, I think)
There might be even more problems that I am not aware of as I checked most of the animations in nifskope only and didn't take much time for that so far. So feel free to report problems with this LH. But take in consideration that I am somewhat frustrated with this, so please be friendly, okay?
At the moment, I think I could fix the shader maps myself so that the body would be brighter. Also, I could correct the background, but at the moment, I don't want to, because I found a camera adjustment that I would prefer and that the background would fit to. Unfortunately, if the other camera adjustment is applied, it will get obvious that the arms collide with the body here and here. This would need to edit the animations, I think, but this is beyond my skills. Also, I am unable to fix the finger. Technically, I know how to rig and I roughly understand how this bone animation thing works, but in practice, I just don't know how to start with that. I am even unable to find out the right vertices (they are just a few, an experienced LH modder would need only a few minutes, I believe...), not to mention that I don't know what could be the correct values for their weights. At least, it seems to me that the finger in question is lined up with the bone correctly...
The eyes only cause a little trobule when the head rotates a lot. And even then, they seemed to be strange, but not necessarily distorted. So if nothing helps, they might be kept as they are.
And this is why I posted this beta here: to find out more glitches and to get some help from experienced modders.
avain
(key)
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
Well, I'll see if someone answers to my post here first. Don't want to annoy anyone at this point, so I hope for volunteers. At least nitram is informed and may be able to help me. If he can't nevertheless and nobody else replies to this (I suppose that at least Ekmek and The Capo will answer giving me some hints though as they always do, although I would appriciate more practical help this time 
), I'll contact him. Good to know a name of an expert though, so thanks.
), I'll contact him. Good to know a name of an expert though, so thanks.
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
Although I should have concentrated on stuff already in work rather then starting a new project, I couldn't resist and gave a freh Imre Nagy a go. I did him from scratch as I thought that basic problems I had with v1 were not or too hard to fix. I attached a first preview. I know there is till work to do, namely:
- background doesn't feel right
- leaderhead always look pi**ed of
- dark head
- eye colour
- suits colour
- beard too dark
I think that the backgrounds theme is okay, but the angle the picture was taken from doesn't match. Easy thing to fix. Not sure why the leaderhead always loks grimm. I use fdrs animation and that leader is actually pretty friendly looking. Well, I could live with this. The main issue is the dark head. It's a texture problem as that part was covered with a helmet for the original leaderhead. Unfortunately, I can'T fix this myself - I already tried to - as I'm a noob if it's about textures. I could take the eye colour though. Not sure what was Nagys actual eye colour, I might try something dark brown or grey-blue-green. The suit again doesn't fit to the leader, I think. I was dreaming of something light-brown / ocher. I could handle the beard again I think. Besides of closing some gaps I din't plan to work on the mesh actually. There are holes in the head near the hairline, but they aren't visible it seems (although I haven't checked all the animations yet), so I might even keep them. In any case, I would wait with closing them till a new texture is available as I could distort the uv mapping overly otherwise. So I'm requesting some help. I'd ask Walther, but he said earlier that he's not good with heads. Also, I wanted to hear the opinion of the audiance first to see whether this version would be really an improvement or not...
As about the other leaderheads I have in work, Széchenyi is done. Maybe I try to move the camera a bit, but besides of that, no further work planned. Rákóczi and Álmos a nearly done, I just don't get the TTorusFur shader set up properly. Didn't work at this issue this weekend to wait for input from more experienced modders. If I interpreted Ekmeks reaction correctly, he didn't even know about this shaders existence or at least use for civ4. That would mean that he can't help me (which would motivate me actually). I'm waiting for The Capo returning from his tour though.
Lajos got teeth already, so he's done now as well. I think that Horthy needs some 'mouth' as there is a visible hole visible when he opens his mouth, I thinik, but I'll keep that as the last thing to do. Besides of this, I'm waitng for the new Árpád and the crown...
- background doesn't feel right
- leaderhead always look pi**ed of
- dark head
- eye colour
- suits colour
- beard too dark
I think that the backgrounds theme is okay, but the angle the picture was taken from doesn't match. Easy thing to fix. Not sure why the leaderhead always loks grimm. I use fdrs animation and that leader is actually pretty friendly looking. Well, I could live with this. The main issue is the dark head. It's a texture problem as that part was covered with a helmet for the original leaderhead. Unfortunately, I can'T fix this myself - I already tried to - as I'm a noob if it's about textures. I could take the eye colour though. Not sure what was Nagys actual eye colour, I might try something dark brown or grey-blue-green. The suit again doesn't fit to the leader, I think. I was dreaming of something light-brown / ocher. I could handle the beard again I think. Besides of closing some gaps I din't plan to work on the mesh actually. There are holes in the head near the hairline, but they aren't visible it seems (although I haven't checked all the animations yet), so I might even keep them. In any case, I would wait with closing them till a new texture is available as I could distort the uv mapping overly otherwise. So I'm requesting some help. I'd ask Walther, but he said earlier that he's not good with heads. Also, I wanted to hear the opinion of the audiance first to see whether this version would be really an improvement or not...
As about the other leaderheads I have in work, Széchenyi is done. Maybe I try to move the camera a bit, but besides of that, no further work planned. Rákóczi and Álmos a nearly done, I just don't get the TTorusFur shader set up properly. Didn't work at this issue this weekend to wait for input from more experienced modders. If I interpreted Ekmeks reaction correctly, he didn't even know about this shaders existence or at least use for civ4. That would mean that he can't help me (which would motivate me actually). I'm waiting for The Capo returning from his tour though.
Lajos got teeth already, so he's done now as well. I think that Horthy needs some 'mouth' as there is a visible hole visible when he opens his mouth, I thinik, but I'll keep that as the last thing to do. Besides of this, I'm waitng for the new Árpád and the crown...
The Capo
godless Heathen
The head and mustache being too dark are merely texturing issues and should be easy to resolve. The background looks pretty decent to me, I'd blur it a little though. This LH looks really good. I'd also give him thicker eyebrows.
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
Okay, as I got a positive feedback within a quite short time already, I won't give up this project.
I think I will keep the background as you suggested and try to blur it. All though not much as I don't like it if backgrounds are blurry. Just a matter of taste though. I already worked on the moustache meanwhile (and have solved the minor issues with the mesh btw) and think that it is okay now. I also thought about making the eyebrows thicker. I didn'T do so far as currently there is quite a good colouring there. Nevertheless, I think it's definately owrth a shot, so I'll try to make it thicker. The big issue is the forehead. Sure, it's the texture, but I'm unable to brighten it smoothly. The problem is basically the blending from bright to dark there. If I'd select a dark part, I'd create a sharp edge when brighten it. Also, I don't want to screw up the structure, so I need to be careful. Lastly, I don't want to enlighten the already bright parts much. Although it wouldn't harm much if the face would be a bit more pale (but this might also be an issue of shadering). I already read about how to get this done, but no luck. Most of the tutorials were about shadows anyways, where there is often a sharp edge. If someone would give me some hints which tools to use (inside the program, I mean) or would volunteer, that would make me happy. Currently, I don't have a clue what to do with that issue...
I think I will keep the background as you suggested and try to blur it. All though not much as I don't like it if backgrounds are blurry. Just a matter of taste though. I already worked on the moustache meanwhile (and have solved the minor issues with the mesh btw) and think that it is okay now. I also thought about making the eyebrows thicker. I didn'T do so far as currently there is quite a good colouring there. Nevertheless, I think it's definately owrth a shot, so I'll try to make it thicker. The big issue is the forehead. Sure, it's the texture, but I'm unable to brighten it smoothly. The problem is basically the blending from bright to dark there. If I'd select a dark part, I'd create a sharp edge when brighten it. Also, I don't want to screw up the structure, so I need to be careful. Lastly, I don't want to enlighten the already bright parts much. Although it wouldn't harm much if the face would be a bit more pale (but this might also be an issue of shadering). I already read about how to get this done, but no luck. Most of the tutorials were about shadows anyways, where there is often a sharp edge. If someone would give me some hints which tools to use (inside the program, I mean) or would volunteer, that would make me happy. Currently, I don't have a clue what to do with that issue...
The Capo
godless Heathen
Ugh, as much as I hate doing textures I hate a good LH getting dumped because of a simple job even more (and by the way don't think I forgot about all of those other projects I told you I would do). So I'll fix his forehead, just work on everything else in the meantime and I'll take a look at it. I am assuming that you are using the vanilla Bismark texture.
EDIT: And if I can't get it done, do what everyone else does when encountering this problem; give him a new scalp (i.e. remove it from someone else and put it on him) or give him a hat.
EDIT: And if I can't get it done, do what everyone else does when encountering this problem; give him a new scalp (i.e. remove it from someone else and put it on him) or give him a hat.
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
Wow, I'm surprised that you are so willing to do the texture... So, thanks for your offer, I'll accept it! Basically, I only have to work on the eyebrows, I think, the rest is done. And yes, it's basically the vanilla bismarck texture. Besides of some colouring to the hair and the moustache. I could provide you a psd file where I have seperated some things. Not sure whether that would be of use for you. Anyways, I'll take some days to get my work done as I'm rather busy and tired through the week. Three questions though:
- Is it that obvious that this lh is based on Bismarck? Although I only sculptured the moustache and at the neck a little and workined on the texture, I thought I've hidden that somewhat thanks to the animation and the glasses...
- When talking about 'all of those other projects', did you also think about the saxon leader (Augustus)? I didn't mention it since quite a while with intention as I didn't want you to do only my requests although you have your own projects and reallife of course. At the moment, I'm busy with my Hungary mod, so no need to hurry at all. I just asked as the opportunity seemed favorable...
- What's with the crown? If I remember correctly, you said you'd hand it over to Walter soon. Did you? Just asking so I know whom I should annoy
Hmmm... I was always wondering how you guys transplanted parts from other leaderheads without causing edges and holes like ekmek did with Széchenyi and the new nose. I guess I have to take a closer look at ekmeks guide... I wouldn't like to add a hat though. Although there is a statue depicting him with hat, it would look rather strange.
AbsintheRed
Deity
I like it
And it's not too close to Bismarck
PS: I will have some time in the next few days, so I will finish the hungarian civ entries for the magyar mod
And it's not too close to Bismarck
PS: I will have some time in the next few days, so I will finish the hungarian civ entries for the magyar mod
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
Alright, I've worked at the Nagy LH again. I altered the colour of the suit and it now matches what I was thinking on. If you guys dislike it, it wouldn't be a problem to switch back. Next thing I did was working on the glasses - I moved down the two round parts and now it roughly looks like on the photos I've seen. I then continued with sculpting the moustache again. When I thought it I was ready, I noticed that there was some heavy distortion on the upper lip that was previously covered by the moustache. I had to align the leaderhead with the skeletion which led to an import / export war. Well, now everything seems to be correct including the moustache. There are some dark sports at the mouths corners which is again a texture issue, but I think whoever will fix the forehead can tweak this, too. Even if not, these two dark sports aren't that much of a problem. Anyways, as a side effect of the realignment, the eyelids seem to have improved (there was a strange, hard to describe effect when they got closed) and also the whole figure seems to be better now.
I will think a little about what else I could do to improve this, but I don't think I can do much. The eyes don't seem to be right, but I can't even tell what's the exact problem. Even if I would know it, I already failed sculpting eyes several times... Well, anyways, if I don't find anything I could work on, I'll post a package with my current work tomorrow.
I will think a little about what else I could do to improve this, but I don't think I can do much. The eyes don't seem to be right, but I can't even tell what's the exact problem. Even if I would know it, I already failed sculpting eyes several times... Well, anyways, if I don't find anything I could work on, I'll post a package with my current work tomorrow.
.
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
Well, thanks for your words and I also think that it could be worse. Still, the most eyes are the prominent part of Nagys face. Some images to compare with:
I already tried to make the eyes more narrow, but it didn't look right.Maybe I could try to make the eyebrows more even and the eyes more narrow...
Spoiler :
I already tried to make the eyes more narrow, but it didn't look right.Maybe I could try to make the eyebrows more even and the eyes more narrow...
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
Although I gave the eyes and the eyebrows a shot, it didn't really improve on the LH, so I reverted my changes. At first, I'd like to see the LH with proper texture, then close the gaps on the head and then continue wih the rest. So, here is the package with current files. Everyone is welcome to participate in this, no matter in what form. Hints are as welcome as help with sculpting the eyes. And of course help with the texture is much appreciated.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/s32dh21dljt4hdd/Nagy_wip.7z
http://www.mediafire.com/file/s32dh21dljt4hdd/Nagy_wip.7z
cool3a2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,177
To get you guys a little bit hung(a)ry, I just uploaded two leaderheads. Nothing entirely new (the only completely leaderhead planned would be Imre Nagy v2), rather fixing and optimizing. Links in post #1.
Matthias Corvinus:
(Background image taken by Robot B)
János Szapolyai:
Corvinus got a new background and a medal to make him more noble. The nif is also cleaned up (now endless nodes above the Scene Root) and there is a button included that resembles the current version.
Szapolyai is based on nitrams version 2 that he seemingly didn't provide as a separate file, but as part of his Colonization mod. I changed the shader from TLeaderheadShaderNoSkin to TLeaderheadShader to have it like the original leaderheads by firaxis are done. I also worked a bit on the shader maps and fixed some references to shader maps. As a side effect, a bug that caused SceneViewer to crash, got fixed. Not sure if that would have caused trouble to players though. To make the work complete, I provided a button and a no shader version.
I plan to upload more leaderheads in the near future. Like the two above, the leaders will be cleaned up (nif and no unused textures), have a noshader version and have fixed and optimized shaders. I'll also provide XML and civilopedia texts in english, german and hungarian (as well as italian if I have translated text). The latter is not yet the case for the recent two leaderheads.
No news about Nagy, though. Tried to recruit Walter Hawkwood for the texture work, but he is on vacation saying I better ask someone else. The Capo did not yet reply, so I asked Melcher Kürzer without having a reply yet.
BTW: When working on an older leaderhead, I hade to move the eyeballbones as otherwise I could never have get the eyes working as they would have turned out elsewise. The trick worked, there is only one magic effect: the leaderhead wears glasses and as long the glasses cover the eyes and from a certain angle, there are two eyepairs - one of them flying around... I guess this is some kind of shader bug in combination with the glasses material. Any ideas for a workaround?
Matthias Corvinus:
(Background image taken by Robot B)
János Szapolyai:
Corvinus got a new background and a medal to make him more noble. The nif is also cleaned up (now endless nodes above the Scene Root) and there is a button included that resembles the current version.
Szapolyai is based on nitrams version 2 that he seemingly didn't provide as a separate file, but as part of his Colonization mod. I changed the shader from TLeaderheadShaderNoSkin to TLeaderheadShader to have it like the original leaderheads by firaxis are done. I also worked a bit on the shader maps and fixed some references to shader maps. As a side effect, a bug that caused SceneViewer to crash, got fixed. Not sure if that would have caused trouble to players though. To make the work complete, I provided a button and a no shader version.
I plan to upload more leaderheads in the near future. Like the two above, the leaders will be cleaned up (nif and no unused textures), have a noshader version and have fixed and optimized shaders. I'll also provide XML and civilopedia texts in english, german and hungarian (as well as italian if I have translated text). The latter is not yet the case for the recent two leaderheads.
No news about Nagy, though. Tried to recruit Walter Hawkwood for the texture work, but he is on vacation saying I better ask someone else. The Capo did not yet reply, so I asked Melcher Kürzer without having a reply yet.
BTW: When working on an older leaderhead, I hade to move the eyeballbones as otherwise I could never have get the eyes working as they would have turned out elsewise. The trick worked, there is only one magic effect: the leaderhead wears glasses and as long the glasses cover the eyes and from a certain angle, there are two eyepairs - one of them flying around... I guess this is some kind of shader bug in combination with the glasses material. Any ideas for a workaround?
