Cops in the Sky with Cameras: Introducing unmmaned spy drones in British skies

[Formaldehyde]

I would thought you a devout Marxist would love what we're doing in the UK. All of these new ways to spy on people and record them is good for a command and control economy.

There really isn't anything inherently authoritarian about Marxism. But do you mean that you are really an advocate of authoritarian governments?

 

[Quackers]

Can you explain to me how I condone this please?

Ok you've edited your first question out of all recognition.

I don't advocate spying on ppl. KTHXBAI

 

[Formaldehyde]

Sorry. My bad. I thought you were opining just the opposite. In this country, the conservatives would typically be in favor of less liberty and freedom for the common good.

 

[lovett]

Requiring an embedded RFID chip and GPS locator in every human would also do so. Would it not?

Yes.

Ten characters.

 

[Takhisis]

Because it can be very easily abused. If this kind of stuff is commonplace, expanding towards a greater police state is already significantly easier.

The frame of acceptability moves. And in this case, that's bad.

Britain already has the most CCTV cameras per person anywhere in the world. Now they're adding these, they have laws regulating Anti-Social Behavior, they are trying to implement identification cards for the entire population which will contain all the biometric data, and its probably not a big jump to say that eventually they're going to install tracking chips. If its ok to watch everyone in public then it must also be ok to track everyone's movements in public right? I mean you have nothing to hide if you're not committing a crime. Then maybe we'll record all you cell phone calls you make in public, and then perhaps we'll install CCTV cameras in the homes of registered sex offenders and other criminal types. Then homes under investigation for child abuse we'll install cameras there also. Hm...lets add speakers to the CCTV cameras so we can listen to peoples conversations in public. And then its not such a long step before cameras are in homes and you have ubiquitous surveillance. And guess what? Everything I've just mentioned has already happened other than the tracking chips, they're already put cameras in the homes of criminals and people investigated by child services.

Once we give the government sweeping power to watch us, who is going to watch the government? Are we simply going to trust the government not to abuse this power? To self-regulate? Who watches the Watchmen? Why are you so eager to give the government such vast unregulated power and leeway?

Agreed with both of ya.
Governments never go back once they have imposed something on society. The best example is taxation. Taxes may go up but very rarely go down. Same with security. Once governments had armies to defend themselves from other countries. Now they have armies to defend themselves from their own subjects. Great! One day they'll put personal cameras on everyone so you can report other citizens, and 1984 will be complete.

 

[Cato the Elder]

There really isn't anything inherently authoritarian about Marxism. But do you mean that you are really an advocate of authoritarian governments?

This man is correct. Assuming that because some Marxists are authoritarian, all of them are, is a fallacy upon itself. Besides, I would never see any of the democratic socialist parties of Europe (like the ones in the Netherlands, Germany, Norway, Spain, etc.) advocating something like this. This definitely isn't Labour's socialist side that's coming up.

I also heard they were planning to start CCTV'ing in my country. I hope it stays away as long as possible. After all, what are all these crime measures good for? Crime is going down in nearly all places in Europe, though apparently Britain's a bit of an exception, ironically enough.

 

[Quackers]

Crime in Britain is a strange thing. According to Government statisitics it is going down - yet perceptions of crime is that it is going up (Q the chants of Dailyfail) - but how can you trust a government which lied to us going to the Iraq War? A government which relies on spin? I remember during 9/11 (or some major event) the government announced unpopular new laws as they would know it would get barely any exposure by the press.

Just sayin'

 

[Cato the Elder]

Crime in Britain is a strange thing. According to Government statisitics it is going down - yet perceptions of crime is that it is going up (Q the chants of Dailyfail) - but how can you trust a government which lied to us going to the Iraq War? A government which relies on spin? I remember during 9/11 (or some major event) the government announced unpopular new laws as they would know it would get barely any exposure by the press.

Just sayin'

Oh right, so government stats are saying they're going down. Nevermind, I recall having read an article about crime in Britain going up, but I may have misinterpreted it.

In that case, it's all between the ears then, and all these draconic measures are even more useless. Why infringe on people's freedoms when there is no significant reason to?

 

[Quackers]

Thats the question I asked myself Cato. These powers are just waiting to be abused.

 

[Cato the Elder]

Thats the question I asked myself Cato. These powers are just waiting to be abused.

Within the realms or realism, what're your thoughts on reducing crime?

 

[Quackers]

Within the realms or realism, what're your thoughts on reducing crime?

In the UK we have an overburdened prison system - there are too many criminals for our jails to handle so there is pressure on judges and parole boards to impose less harsh sentances and to cut sentances in half. So a criminal is sentaced to 10 years but only servers 5 years. This is combined with a liberal idealogy which says criminals are also victims and that if you treat them kindly they will not commit crimes - hence lesser sentances.

On the detterance side of things there need to be far more police officers walking the streets. Apparently there used to be a stereotype that the British bobby was the best police officer in the world this is gone. The resaon why he was the best was because he was on the "beat" literally walking around an area - you would see him every 20 minutes at one area. This dettered crime and allowed the general transfer of information from the general public to the officer which could pre-empt crime (not in the minority report sense ofc) and there was a trust.

So to build more jails -remove that liberal idealogy and put the bobby back on the beat!

KTHXBAI

 

[lovett]

Why infringe on people's freedoms when there is no significant reason to?

The argument can be made that surveillance isn't a restriction on freedom. Just because one is being watched does not mean that one cannot act in whatever way one wants.

 

[aelf]

I would thought you a devout Marxist would love what we're doing in the UK. All of these new ways to spy on people and record them is good for a command and control economy.

There are a lot of Marxists who hate this sort of development. You know that there is such a thing as left-libertarian, right?

 

[Takhisis]

My thought is education... but a real education, not forcing them to read Marx or the Holy Bible or Hitler's or mao's or anyone's works. Education, and diminishing poverty. Also, wipe out drug traffic.

 

[aelf]

My thought is education... but a real education, not forcing them to read Marx or the Holy Bible or Hitler's or mao's or anyone's works. Education, and diminishing poverty. Also, wipe out drug traffic.

Education means forcing people to read a wide variety of things. What, you think most kids simply want to read on their own accord?

 

[Takhisis]

No... but they would if there was something in it for them.

 

[aelf]

No... but they would if there was something in it for them.

Hate to break it to you, but those kids don't tend to think there's anything in it for them. I have to be forced to read some stuff too. I mean, I wouldn't even think of touching Critique of Pure Reason if I wasn't forced to read parts of it for study.

 

[cardgame]

next: mind-readers and thoughtcrime.

 

[Quackers]

There are a lot of Marxists who hate this sort of development. You know that there is such a thing as left-libertarian, right?

Yup but they have never really been in power and therefore better to go for tolitarian-left.

 

[aelf]

Yup but they have never really been in power and therefore better to go for tolitarian-left.

Being in power and having Anarchist leanings seems to be kind of awkward, don't you think?