Corey Booker and the SNAP (food stamp) challenge

Farm Boy said:
Ah my dear Hobbs, you've run into the problem of small farmers. Low yearly annual income with a lifetime's(or 3) accrual of illiquid assets that jam you on taxes and push you up categories. I don't have a good solution, since having something in the asset column is clearly not the same as having nothing in the asset column, but it works out really squirrely sometimes.
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Well I didn't mean to gripe too much. It wasn't a big huge issue, it just kind of sucked and I realized that though we'd be ok, it could be a very serious deal for some people.
Zelig said:
We don't have anything like foodstamps in Canada.
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What do you guys do to feed the poor?
plarq said:
For cheap living, I fish in the lake...
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If you tried doing that at my local lake, you'd likely be poisoned by the contamination. If that was a serious suggestion about self-sufficiency and not just a quip, then I'd have to disagree. Many people don't have the ability to do things like fish and hunt due to location, time (they often work their butts off) and other impediments.
 
hobbsyoyo said:
Well I didn't mean to gripe too much. It wasn't a big huge issue, it just kind of sucked and I realized that though we'd be ok, it could be a very serious deal for some people.
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I wasn't trying to marginalize, and it's a valid concern. What do we do with the cusps and grey areas around the lines we draw for assistance qualifications? It seems kind of natural for a form of "dead-zone" right above the aid line to exist, where you really aren't any better, or may be even worse off if you are just above the level of what qualifies.

I was just attempting to commiserate tangentially.
 
I know what you mean about the 'dead zone' right above the aid line. I've fallen through that crack many times before in different situations.
 
I saw a graph over here not too long ago that had the marginal tax minus benefits rate, it was over 100% at some point. :(
 
Zelig said:
Foodbanks, various low-income supplements.
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What kind of supplements? Do these things and foodbanks fully meet the need? Foodbanks don't come close enough here, but there are probably more poor people here than there are people in Canada (no offense meant by that)

Foodstamps basically just seems like a way to be dickish and insulting towards poor people, if you give them cash instead of foodstamps, they're not going to spend it on other stuff and starve to death.
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I am not an expert or knowledgeable, but from what I know about they way the used to work, people did indeed abuse them to get booze and stuff. (or enough that it was considered a problem that needed to be fixed)
 
I am not an expert or knowledgeable, but from what I know about they way the used to work, people did indeed abuse them to get booze and stuff. (or enough that it was considered a problem that needed to be fixed)
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Those incidents are so rare they may very well have been myth. The first documented case I can find is an anecdotal lie Regan told about the mythical "welfare queen" that he witnessed pull up in her Mercedes and buy cigs and alcohol with food stamps. In reality that never happened and what Regan was doing was using welfare queen as a code-word for black people to win the racist white vote.
 
Food stamps still limit the problems. Maybe only a few people will truly abuse it and selfishly use it on cigarettes and booze instead of feeding their kids, but cash still goes to other things. Rent, debt, bills, etc. It's just better to guarantee a certain amount of money for food.
 
bombshoo said:
Food stamps still limit the problems. Maybe only a few people will truly abuse it and selfishly use it on cigarettes and booze instead of feeding their kids, but cash still goes to other things. Rent, debt, bills, etc. It's just better to guarantee a certain amount of money for food.
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You think people are choosing to spend their money on rent, debt, bills, etc. rather than food?
 
Zelig said:
You think people are choosing to spend their money on rent, debt, bills, etc. rather than food?
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In the case of certain kinds of debt where their wages are garnished, they don't even have a choice.

As for being homeless or having heat during winter, or clean running water? People might very well pay these over eating, considering all of these are almost or equally as vital as food.
 
bombshoo said:
Food stamps still limit the problems. Maybe only a few people will truly abuse it and selfishly use it on cigarettes and booze instead of feeding their kids, but cash still goes to other things. Rent, debt, bills, etc. It's just better to guarantee a certain amount of money for food.
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You can't actuallly spend foodstamps on that stuff, it only can happen through the fungibility of money.
 
peter grimes said:
Could you explain this?

My brain has the hiccups. :blush:
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Unless I misunderstand, when you are around the cusps of aid qualification lines, and you count the amount that your taxes go up as you earn more and add the amount of aid you lose as you earn more, there are brackets of income which are pretty common brackets for people to be in, where you essentially pay out and lose more than $1 for every extra $1 you earn.

I've never seen anything that indicates this causes people to stop trying to earn more money, everyone wants to bust through those zones of income and actually make more, but that sort of thing does wind up being kinda like a bucket full of crickets. You can make it up part of the way, but you just can't make it out. Then the rest of the crickets eat you. Or maybe a bird swoops in from on high and eats you first.
 
Farm Boy said:
Unless I misunderstand, when you are around the cusps of aid qualification lines, and you count the amount that your taxes go up as you earn more and add the amount of aid you lose as you earn more, there are brackets of income which are pretty common brackets for people to be in, where you essentially pay out and lose more than $1 for every extra $1 you earn.

I've never seen anything that indicates this causes people to stop trying to earn more money, everyone wants to bust through those zones of income and actually make more, but that sort of thing does wind up being kinda like a bucket full of crickets. You can make it up part of the way, but you just can't make it out. Then the rest of the crickets eat you. Or maybe a bird swoops in from on high and eats you first.
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I know of one specific case, there might be more. Here in NYC there are some housing units that are rented out only to 'artists'. I know some actors and technicians who qualify. The deal is that you pay 33% of your annual income in rent - if you earn more, you pay more in rent. But only up to a certain point. I forget the cap, but if you go over, you lose the privileged rent rate. So some people are careful about the types of jobs they take in case they get bumped over that cap.

I have no idea if they would be kicked out of their lease or if they'd simply have to pay a penalty of some sort. It's rare.
 
civ_king said:
You can't actuallly spend foodstamps on that stuff, it only can happen through the fungibility of money.
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I realize that. I was arguing in favor of food stamps over just giving straight cash hand outs for that very reason.
 
We played this game last year and I proved decisively you can eat healthy for 20 dollars a week ( one adult).

If anyone cares to challenge me I shall do it again, as long as you play too.
 
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