COTM 02: Pregame discussion

[Stone Wolf]

I highly doubt we will play Scandinavia. They didn't explore in the modern sense of this word..

Well, they did do some exploring:

ERIC THE RED
Eric the Red (950?-1003 or 1004?) was a Viking explorer who was the first European to sail to Greenland. He sailed from Iceland in 982 and led a group of colonists to Greenland in 985-986.

ERICSSON, LEIF
Leif Ericsson (also spelled Eriksson) the Lucky (980?-1020?) was a Viking (Norse) explorer who was possibly the first European to sail to North America. Leif sailed north from the southern tip of Greenland, then went south along the coast of Baffin Island down to Labrador, and then landed in what is now called Newfoundland (which he called Vinland). Ericsson sailed around the year 1000.

Ericsson was born in Iceland and was one of the sons of the explorer Eric the Red.

Ericsson was probably preceded to Vinland by the Icelandic explorer Bjarni Herjulfsson, who spotted the coast of North America in 985 or 986 when blown off course from Iceland to Greenland (but he did not go ashore). Hearing of Herjulfsson's discovery, Ericsson sailed for North America in the year 1000 with a crew of 35. He landed in what is probably southern Baffin Island (which he called Helluland, meaning the "land of the flat stone"). He then went on the what is now Labrador (which he called Markland, meaning "forest land"). In 1001 they reached Vinland (perhaps the southern tip of Newfoundland), where remains of an ancient Norse settlement have been found). Ericsson and his crew returned to Green land in the spring of 1002.

 

[Megalou]

I'd say James Cook is a pretty famous explorer. Ainwood might not have been living where he does if it weren't for Cook.

 

[Singularity]

I highly doubt we will play Scandinavia. They didn't explore in the modern sense of this word..


So it is between dutch and english. Here are the names of ENglish and Dutch leaders I took from Intellegence Agency

Ehhh? Come again? They lived to explore. If it could be sailed to they did it, while others rowed around in calm mediteranian waters they rode the waves in the north atlantic while they killed seals off from floating icebergs...

Leiv Erikson is still considered to be the rightful discoverer of America. Just too bad he didn't have the Inquisition to back him up on a return trip or ten.

Portugal is still very much in the picture. Wouldn't be much point in showing a pic with three units in the stack with one seafaring civ that's expansionist?

Portugal: Magellan(pretty much da man in the exploration business).
Spain: Columbus(500 years after Leiv he did the same feat). Spain was resently played in the vanilla though.

All theese three are leaders of their civs. Somehow I feel Ainwood might have done us a very little favor by naming a leader as a famous explorer. I for one believe it's portugal now. Because Magellan was the #1 explorer of all times.

 

[ainwood]

I'd say James Cook is a pretty famous explorer. Ainwood might not have been living where he does if it weren't for Cook.

 

[dmanakho]

Ehhh? Come again? They lived to explore. If it could be sailed to they did it, while others rowed around in calm mediteranian waters they rode the waves in the north atlantic while they killed seals off from floating icebergs...

Leiv Erikson is still considered to be the rightful discoverer of America. Just too bad he didn't have the Inquisition to back him up on a return trip or ten.

Nah, They did sail around a lot and that is true.. But they never sailed for the reason to explore as for Example Columbus, Maggelan and others did..
Exploring new lands was not really their primary goal.
Although, everyone has a different understanding of word explorer so yes, scandinavia can be one of the possibilities.

EDIT. And yes they were the first to discover America

 

[dmanakho]

I'd say James Cook is a pretty famous explorer. Ainwood might not have been living where he does if it weren't for Cook.

According to the Intellegence Agency James Cook is not English MGL.
So He is out of the question if we believe Intellegence Agency of course

 

[Singularity]

Although, everyone has a different understanding of word explorer so yes, scandinavia can be one of the possibilities.

EDIT. And yes they were the first to discover America

I define exploring as to go into uncharted territory by the curiosity, greed and scientific research that drives one there. The Vikings may lack a scientific base to fund their explorations. But their ships was a scientific marvel of their days - and their curiosity must have matched their greed at some point to make them risk their lives on very deangerous journeys.

Columbus and Magellan had a higher evolved society at their backs. But I don't think the catholic church's goals where any more noble or deserving of the term 'explorative' as the vikings.

*back to topic*

 

[Stone Wolf]

I'd say James Cook is a pretty famous explorer. Ainwood might not have been living where he does if it weren't for Cook.

He is a famous explorer, but he isn't in the game as a MGL.

 

[dmanakho]

I define exploring as to go into uncharted territory by the curiosity, greed and scientific research that drives one there. The Vikings may lack a scientific base to fund their explorations. But their ships was a scientific marvel of their days - and their curiosity must have matched their greed at some point to make them risk their lives on very deangerous journeys.

Columbus and Magellan had a higher evolved society at their backs. But I don't think the catholic church's goals where any more noble or deserving of the term 'explorative' as the vikings.

*back to topic*

Point Taken!

 

[samildanach]

Wasn't he more of a general, or am I thinking of the wrong person? It was his son Hannibal that did the exploring, while Hammlicar mostly invaded people. I'm not sure if that counts as exploration. Of course, I could easily be wrong.

That was the Hamilcar I was thinking of. On the basis that he founded Barcelona. But your right I think that Carthage did know Spain was there
There are as you infered lots of Hamilcars and hopefully one of them was a clear cut explorer/soldier so I look less dumb.

 

[Cuivienen]

The Dutch have Henry Hudson as a MGL. Henry Hudson is an explorer of the Hudson River.

Really? Henry Hudson was English (obviously, by the name) -- he just explored for the Dutch because they paid better. He also explored Hudson Bay in Canada for England, too, later on. Of course, since Spain gets Columbus (rather than Italy -- Rome), it makes sense.

Anyway.

England:

Edward
Boudicea
Nelson
Wallace
Cornwallis
Clinton
Wellington

We aren't England.

Spain:

Cordoba
Bartolome
Columbus
Zuniga
Olivares
Zumalacarregui

I doubt we're Spain because of GOTM30, but you never know...

Scandinavia:

Healfdene
Inwaaer
Hubba
Erik Bloodaxe
Leif Eriksson
Canute II

Very possible -- Lief Eriksson

Carthage:

Hamilcar
Mago
Hanno
Himilco
Hasdrubal

None of them are all that well-known. We aren't Carthage.

The Netherlands:

Abel Tasman
Willem Jansz
Dirck Hartog
Henry Hudson
Willem Jantszoon

Possibility -- Hudson and Tasman.

Portugal:

Viriato
Afonso
Dinis
da Gama
Magellan
Cabral
Dias
Cabrillo

Lots of explorers, but we certainly aren't them, as they would have a Scout and the screenshot doesn't.

The Byzantines:

Justinian
Belisarius
Constantine
Theodosius
Irene

I'm hoping Justinian counts as an explorer (We aren't Byzantium.)

That's all folks! Looks like either Scandinavia (less likely -- old civ) or the Netherlands (more likely).

EDIT: And I just noticed something. Boudicea/Boudicca appears in two different MGL lists (England and the Celts)!

 

[eq1]

A hint: One of this civs MGLs is a notable explorer.

I'm gussing the Dutch as Abel Tasman discovered New Zealand. Surely a notable explorer and one who would be hinted at by a kiwi.

If it is though, not a very nice start for an agricultural civ.

 

[Lord British]

Abel Tasman was the first European to discover New Zealand - ainwoods home turf, so I'm betting it's the Dutch!

LOL EQ1 - we posted at the same time

 

[Lord British]

If it is though, not a very nice start for an agricultural civ.

Makes the sling shot to Republic all the more important for the xtra food it will enable!

 

[MjM]

I wish it was the Byzantines but it looks like its gonna be the Dutch
And for the worker ill work the space hes on and settle the BG for the whales

Im new to Civfanatics and wow what a wonderful website

 

[Lord British]

I'm new too. Being playing civ for years but only competing since COTOM01.
Spent hours reading strategy's - played for 100's of hours but never learn't some of the tips here and probably never would have.

Great site Moderators!

 

[SniperDevil]

hey ainwood release it 1/2 hour early... please?

 

[waitingtoderail]

No one "discovered" America, it was settled by man tens of thousands of years ago. There is evidence that points to Asian cultures having visited hundreds of years before the Vikings. There are even theories that the Irish were there way before the Vikings. Just because Columbus got the best press doesn't mean there weren't people here long before him. Sorry, just needed to say it.

 

[SniperDevil]

No one "discovered" America, it was settled by man tens of thousands of years ago. There is evidence that points to Asian cultures having visited hundreds of years before the Vikings. There are even theories that the Irish were there way before the Vikings. Just because Columbus got the best press doesn't mean there weren't people here long before him. Sorry, just needed to say it.

The viking exploration of NewFoundland(Vineland) in 1000AD is the first accounted for exploration of North America by EUROPEANS. Early man migrated from Asia across the bergin strait when the sea level was much lower. I doubt that the Irish were civilized enough be 1000AD to reach America. They were busy finding the thousands of islands in the british isle if they even branched out like that at all.

 

[ainwood]

re Exploration, you could always take those discussions to the history forum