COTM 05 Pre-Game Discussion

[klarius]

If you want to go the pop-rush route, you need a lot of cities. Best plop them as tight as possible outside your productive region.
They stay at size 1 and pop-rush a horse or sword every 10 turns.
You have only 2 unhappiness points at any given time by that, so two luxes offset this already. If you have more luxes the cities can be allowed to grow a little. Food bonuses if available can be used for specialists.

Score early in game comes mostly from territory, so you don't give up much.

 

[Jason Fliegel]

Stupid question time -- is there any difference between a forrested plain and a forrested grassland in terms of shields/food/gold? And do forested furs produce more shields/food/gold than regular forests?

 

[AlanH]

@Jason Fliegel: No and yes.

Forest is just forest until it's chopped.

All bonus resources add their food/shield/commerce bonuses to any terrain they lie on, including forest, subject only to the despot restrictions - three or more of anything is reduced by one while you are despotic.

@Mistfit: Pop rushing temples in border cities can be handy if you are religious. Often a new corrupt city will produce 2 fpt and 1 spt. After ten turns it's at pop 2 and has 10 shields, so it needs twenty shields to complete a temple, which costs one citizen - your new one. Pop rush the temple to increase territory and culture. The temple offsets the unhappiness produced by rushing.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Stupid question time -- is there any difference between a forrested plain and a forrested grassland in terms of shields/food/gold? And do forested furs produce more shields/food/gold than regular forests?

Furs add 1 shield and 1 commerce to the underlying terrain. So Forest with fur will produce 3 shields instead of 2, mined plains or mined regular grassland with fur will produce 2 shields instead of 1 (unmined will produce 1 instead of 0). As Alan pointed out, the tricky part is actually the government type you are under: in despotism, the 3rd shield on a forest-fur tile is eaten by the despotism penalty. The same goes for a 3rd commerce (road = 1 commerce, fur = 1 commerce, river = 1 commerce, for a total of 3). You will not get the third commerce until you get out of despotism.

It is probably a good idea to clear those forests on the fur tiles so that you can get the 2 food and 2 shields while in despotism. Also, only road the furs on a river under despotism if you want the movement bonus, because you will not get the 3rd commerce. Once you get out of despotism though, you will definitely want the roads, and you may even want to replant the forest if your city needs the shields.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Thinkin' of an early victory, imagine if the opponents were Greek (Hoplite), Cathage (Num Merc), Babylon (Bowman), Iroquois (Mounted Warrior), Roman (Legionary), Persia (Immortal), Maya (Jav Thrower), Hittite (TMC) and Celts (Gallic Swordsman). I know it would be unlikely to have 9 other civs, but this would not be good. A cool map would have only the American continent civs, all starting far from us so we can't do an early kill.

 

[Cuivienen]

I just played a test game up to the Middle Ages and some friendly advice -- try to avoid popping Philosophy from a hut before discovering Code of Laws

 

[denyd]

Cuivienen: Exception to this, if you've researched Polytheism and want to be in Monarchy for easier war waging, then go straight to Philosophy.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Hey isn't Ainwood due to pop in with another tibit of information to to further the discussion? IIRC he mentioned something about dropping clues about which civs will represent the AI and how he has constrained resources (ie all the iron at one end of the continent and all the horses at the other and the Inca on an island in a inland sea).

 

[solenoozerec]

Hey isn't Ainwood due to pop in with another tibit of information to to further the discussion? IIRC he mentioned something about dropping clues about which civs will represent the AI and how he has constrained resources (ie all the iron at one end of the continent and all the horses at the other and the Inca on an island in a inland sea).

Actually, indeed, although we were given almost everything up front, there are bits of legitimate information that we may ask for before saves will be published.
1. How many rivals are there? 7 as usual?
2. What are predator and conquest class conditions? (Personally I do not care as I am still too afraid of predator , but not eligible for conquest anymore).
3. What is percentage of water?

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Here's a crazy start idea:

Settler W to plains fur (2-shield city tile)
Worker chop,mine at start, then SW,chop
Using only the visible tiles, we get a granary at 3300BC and a settler at 3100BC.

It looks to me like the starting tile is definately PLAINS-forest. So it is already a 2-shield city tile, and mining it would not improve it under despotism.

So to me the correct order would be:

Settler founds capital on the spot. Worker SW, chop and mine (unless it's a BG under the forest, in which case this tile cannot be improved in any way under despotism!). Then Worker NW, chop and irrigate (building road brings no bonus under despotism since fur+river already brings 2 commerce). This brings a Granary in 3350, a first Settler in 3200 and a second Settler in 2900, with a little micro-management (even earlier if there is a BG under the forest SW of the start-tile).

Then the worker moves on to mine and road two of the BG's, leaving us with a massive 10 shields per turn at size 4 under despotism, which for example equals a Warrior+Chasqui/Archer+Worker combo every 4 turns, with minimal unhappiness (just one Warrior needed as MP).

-- Roland

 

[Randy]

(Personally I do not care as I am still too afraid of predator , but not eligible for conquest anymore).

You have to be eligible for conquest?

So next mounth if we have a diety game am I eligible for conquest class?

 

[Lord British]

I think if you have finished in the top 50% that you are not eligible for conquest level anymore.

Someone plz confirm?

 

[ainwood]

I think if you have finished in the top 50% that you are not eligible for conquest level anymore.

Someone plz confirm?

That is correct.

Players who have played previous GOTM games and finished in the upper 50% of the rankings should continue to play the Open Class games and will not have the option of recording scores for the Conquest Class versions of the game.

Its detailed in this thread.

 

[Hannabir]

It looks to me like the starting tile is definately PLAINS-forest.

Can't see it.
If it is, that would certainly be advantageous.

 

[Tone]

IMO it looks as though the underlying terrain is definitely grass.

 

[solenoozerec]

That is correct.
Its detailed in this thread.

Why not to write it down in the pages announcing save files? I accidentally came across this information. Otherwise I would definitely choose conquest class in the next deity game. Apparently I am not the only one for whom this information came as a surprise.

 

[solenoozerec]

IMO it looks as though the underlying terrain is definitely grass.

Building the capital on furs has also another advantage - no need to build a road. Furs and river give 2 gold, road doesn't change this, but you still need to connect a city to the lux. If you have a city on the lux, no need to build a road.

 

[LeSphinx]

A'AbarachAmadan , How do you install the SnOOpy graphics mods with COTM ?
I've try and it is not working.
Please help me.
Thanks
LeSphinx

 

[Roland Ehnström]

@ Hannabir and Tone, it's been a while since I used Snoopy's terrain graphics, but as far as I remember, brownish trees means plains underneath.

But looking around a bit, I find this: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3images/snoopy45c/snoopy terrains with normal gforests.jpg

Now I don't know what to think...

-- Roland

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Building the capital on furs has also another advantage - no need to build a road. Furs and river give 2 gold, road doesn't change this, but you still need to connect a city to the lux. If you have a city on the lux, no need to build a road.

Yes, but you don't want to build a city on a grassland-forest-fur, 'cause in effect that would waste 1 shield per turn compared to building it on a plains-forest-fur and chop+mine the grassland-forest-fur. So it is pretty important to figure out if that starting tile is grassland-forest or plains-forest.

-- Roland