COTM 05 Pre-Game Discussion

[t.neo]

I've tested the Chasqui a bit and found something disappointing - although it can use its second movement point after moving onto a hill or mountain, it does get stuck in forest and jungle.

I have found the same, and it also get stuck in the marshes. How does the wet world effect the number of marsh tiles and jungle tiles?

 

[Denniz]

How can I, or any of the staff, tell whether the switch was made by each player as a genuine innocent action to get back onto the intended game plan, or as a deliberate decision to take an unfair advantage?

While I am not suggesting you do it, I think that if the fixed save files were kept, then reviewing a players position at that point might shed some light on things. After all, if someone was doing enough to really benefit from it then it should be fairly obvious.

 

[ainwood]

Or I might have left them alone....

@Darkness notice the type size of the last sentence? Ainwood much like God has ways of letting you know his divine will .

I think you're reading a bit much into that little line

Read as much or as little into this as you want (but please share your thoughts), but please note that I am trying my darndest to write this from an impartial view, without too much that is specific to this game. I hope you can just follow the logic of it:

There are two main benefits from scouts: Exploration / contacts and goodyhuts. There is also the indirect benefit that you start with pottery, and for an agricultural civ on a river, this gives you a pretty-good start.

For goody huts, Settlers from a hut very early on can be game-breaking, and we want to preserve game balance. You might even consider that pottery as a starting tech helps with game balance in respect of some popping it, some not. But look at the other issue: you are playing conquests where contact trading is deferred until printing press. It therefore makes sense to try and get as many contacts as you can as quickly as possible. On Pagaea, scouts are the best option for this.


@Sam: Yes you are stirring. You make some valid points, but I am certainly not going to disqualify people for something that was essentially my fault. Its a good thing that door-bell ringing isn't an Olympic sport.

 

[solenoozerec]

I plan to start by moving the scout NE and (if nothing startling at that point) N to the hills.

I didn’t even think about it, but yes indeed a path of scout NE-N sounds more favorable compared to N-NE.

But look at the other issue: you are playing conquests where contact trading is deferred until printing press. It therefore makes sense to try and get as many contacts as you can as quickly as possible.

On regent AI civs are poor and backwards. What can I trade from them? Why should I want even to know them? Sure, first few contacts will be useful, but then... I am not sure it is really that important.

 

[Randy]

On regent AI civs are poor and backwards. What can I trade from them? Why should I want even to know them? Sure, first few contacts will be useful, but then... I am not sure it is really that important.

You could get them into a war with your nerest AI, this will split the AI's troops to two or more fronts. This will help you on your front with the AI your at war with.

 

[Wheelock]

Regent, excellent. I was hoping my first COTM would be something I could handle. The Inca will win this time and defy history. I hope Spain is one of the nations

 

[Lord British]

Welcome Wheelock to your first COTM.

Best of luck, and try to eat and sleep occassionally

 

[Roland Ehnström]

There is minimap posted. We are far south...

Christ, now I'm both blind and stupid, LOL!

I blame the fact that I've caught the flu, and wrote that post with a slight fever. Thanks for the heads up!

-- Roland

 

[Wheelock]

Welcome Wheelock to your first COTM.

Best of luck, and try to eat and sleep occassionally

Thanks, dude. No worries about the eating and sleeping; I'm selfish enough to make sure I get enough of both

 

[ainwood]

Christ, now I'm both blind and stupid, LOL!

I blame the fact that I've caught the flu, and wrote that post with a slight fever. Thanks for the heads up!

-- Roland

I actually added the minimap in a few hours after I posted the main screenshot, so you might not be as blind as you thought.

 

[solenoozerec]

I actually added the minimap in a few hours after I posted the main screenshot, so you might not be as blind as you thought.

O my god! I just wanted to reply to Roland Enhstrom that I haven't notice a minimap from the first glance too. Apparently it wasn't there

 

[Hannabir]

Thanks DaveMcW, what a great idea to move the settler west! I think that a granary in 3350BC and settler in 3150BC is even possible, using only tiles which are fully visible at the start.

I think so, too.

After the first settler, and 4 tiles have been mined, I think I would let the capital grow to size 5 first, before starting on the next one. With so many shields, at size 4/5 you can build eg 5 Warriors, in addition to a Settler, every 8 turns. That would amount to over 30 veteran Swordsmen before 1000BC from the capital alone.

 

[AlanH]

I noted Ainwood's other point in his first post. He's going to set contrastng difficulties each month. As a non-C3C player, I wonder what that says about GOTM36

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Aha, thanks ainwood, that makes me feel much better.

-- Roland

 

[Birdjaguar]

Regent and pangea. The talk of quick wins smacks of a domination victory. By what date would you super stars expect to see knights?

 

[deadloss]

Regent and pangea. The talk of quick wins smacks of a domination victory. By what date would you super stars expect to see knights?

2049AD...if I'm lucky!

 

[Randy]

Regent and pangea. The talk of quick wins smacks of a domination victory. By what date would you super stars expect to see knights?

IMHO 390-320 BC is a good date to enter the MA. (For me)

So if you are science and you gift an AI (both must get the correct tech). Study 4 turns and you could have it.

Or study 12 turns if no trade and not science.

 

[AlanH]

IMHO 390-320 BC is a good date to enter the MA. (For me)

So if you are science and you gift an AI (both must get the correct tech). Study 4 turns and you could have it.

Or study 12 turns if no trade and not science.

4 turn research at the start of the MA, in 300 BC, is certainly in the realm of the elite superstars. Mere mortals struggle to achieve even half that rate.

 

[Birdjaguar]

IMHO 390-320 BC is a good date to enter the MA.

I started a practice game to see how I might do, and at 410 BC I have 3 turns until the MA. I'm pretty surprised; I'm not a great player. Regent is not very fast for tech I guess. My research cycle has been 10-15 turns. I am ahead in tech and thinking about my first war. People are sure close together on a standard map (which I rarely play). I had pretty good luck with GH and even got on free town very early.

I guess Sir Pleb will hit the MA about 1000 BC and win by 0.

 

[Civgeek]

On the question of whether one Chasqui is as good as two warriors, I feel that the answer is yes for exploration. Two warriors cannot travel twice as far as one warrior. The Chasqui's greater speed should improve the odds of opening more huts. I've tested the Chasqui a bit and found something disappointing - although it can use its second movement point after moving onto a hill or mountain, it does get stuck in forest and jungle. This sure seems like an overpriced UU at 20 shields. And if there's a lot of forest/jungle then sending out warriors could be better.

I'd say the answer is no for exploration. I’d argue two warriors can explore better than 1 Chasqui scout; if they move in opposite directions. Ignoring terrain and assuming corner moves, a scout will expose 10 new tiles per turn. Two warriors moving to opposite corners from the start tile will also expose 10 new tiles per turn. Factor in terrain and it gets worse for the scout; it can still expose 10 tiles if it runs in to hills/mountains, but so do the two warriors. Run in to forest/jungle and the warriors will still expose 10 new tiles, but the scout will drop to 5. The scout may get to a GH faster once it spots one, but over any extended period, the two warriors should always expose more new tiles (and hence more GH). I can’t see any reason to build a Chasqui scout except to trigger a golden age.