Critics vs Audience?

I saw one of Chappelle's comeback specials a couple of years ago, and I just thought it wasn't very good compared to his earlier material. Some of it was undeniably just playing transphobia for laughs.

Idk if the spirit of his material has remained the same, and I (along with the world) changed in the meantime, or if he lost the spirit of the earlier work and has just replaced the observational subversive humor with rather boring transgression-as-humor.

Dave Chappelle told me that police violence against black people in the US was a systemic problem a full decade before Black Lives Matter even existed.
 
A church is its people. Guess I don't really see a terribly meaningful difference. Weird and gross is funny. Sort of like family done right. Mean is different.
 
oh yeah, I heard one of the controversial jokes was about Jackson. Unfortunately I dont have netflix so I'll have to wait for it thru another venue.
 
Lexicus said:
I saw one of Chappelle's comeback specials a couple of years ago, and I just thought it wasn't very good compared to his earlier material. Some of it was undeniably just playing transphobia for laughs.

Idk if the spirit of his material has remained the same, and I (along with the world) changed in the meantime, or if he lost the spirit of the earlier work and has just replaced the observational subversive humor with rather boring transgression-as-humor.

Dave Chappelle told me that police violence against black people in the US was a systemic problem a full decade before Black Lives Matter even existed.
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There's a spliced clip going around showing him using his trans joke about genitals in a 2007 standup, a 2017 standup, and this one. It def does seem like a combination of the world changing and him just not really having much creative juices or drive left. He just seems like his hearts not in it at times.

Farm Boy said:
A church is its people. Guess I don't really see a terribly meaningful difference. Weird and gross is funny. Sort of like family done right. Mean is different.
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I think the distinction is pretty significant. The Catholic Church as an insert is usually the institution, not your local neighborhood place, and the people being made fun of are adults who did terrible things, not the kids who should be thankful the King of Pop touched them? That's a very different framing. That said, they're both often pretty grossly framed jokes. Not sure pedophilia should be a comedy point!
 
Lexicus said:
Dave Chappelle told me that police violence against black people in the US was a systemic problem a full decade before Black Lives Matter even existed.
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GoodEnoughForMe said:
Yeah I mean, Catholic priest jokes are weird and gross pretty often! I guess at least they're usually at the expense of the Catholic Church. In this case Chapelle literally 'jokes' that children were either lying, or, if not lying, lucky to have been raped by Michael Jackson.
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The punchline that informs us "the thing" is where he says lots of people are raped by family members and no one does anything.
 
Hygro said:
The punchline that informs us "the thing" is where he says lots of people are raped by family members and no one does anything.
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But that's even a joke. Like, that our family members won't take us to Hawaii like Jackson did as he says. It's just gross. There's a way to talk about this without literally referring to child victims as dishonest or lucky. He does the same with R Kelly and says the reaction to a guy who is literally a psychopathic serial rapist is overblown when he got to perform for yeaaaars.

At the very least he can go without referring to child rape victims as liars. That bar is so low. So so low.
 
GoodEnoughForMe said:
There's a spliced clip going around showing him using his trans joke about genitals in a 2007 standup, a 2017 standup, and this one. It def does seem like a combination of the world changing and him just not really having much creative juices or drive left. He just seems like his hearts not in it at times.
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See I'm talking even earlier than 2007: Killin' them Softly, Chappelle's show, For What It's Worth. I remember no transphobic jokes at all from those two specials (can't speak authoritatively about the show, trans issues were not on my radar at all during that time so there may well be some throwaway transphobia as that was more-or-less ubiquitous at the time).
 
People deal with trying to help horror and awful crap in the people they understand and love. Stuff they can't see, can't address directly, they treat like landmines. And those sit there, waiting.

Meanness is different.
 
GoodEnoughForMe said:
But that's even a joke. Like, that our family members won't take us to Hawaii like Jackson did as he says. It's just gross. There's a way to talk about this without literally referring to child victims as dishonest or lucky. He does the same with R Kelly and says the reaction to a guy who is literally a psychopathic serial rapist is overblown when he got to perform for yeaaaars.

At the very least he can go without referring to child rape victims as liars. That bar is so low. So so low.
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Yeah, he was telling jokes. You can say it's all bad like that, which is your taste, but it's not going to turn you into a victim denier. So the effect isn't harmful. And you could worry it would give license to others, but you're guessing. I'm an other, so here's me: I laughed through it, it was awful, and my takeaway was damn, yeah, a lot of people are quietly abused and have no recourse, justice, anything, get the same victim-denying/blaming, but the attention of course is on the Jackson/Kelly level. I read a lot of that two-X, for years now. Such a common theme so maybe I'm primed that way for that to be my takeaway.

Plus, people have dark sides to them. Really dark sides. Pretending you don't isn't healthy. Have a laugh about bad things helps you exorcise and be good better than judging it back into your core. For me it is.
 
Berzerker said:
Catholic priest jokes?
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In summary, the joke is that getting molested by michael jackson is like winning the lottery of getting molested (better by him than a pervy uncle). I didn't find it that funny but also not that horrible.

No one listening to this is gonna think "oh molestation is not a big deal", it's like jokes about 9/11 or the holocaust, well maybe a lil worse since those are over
 
People are saying MJ is a pedo again? Did something new come to light or is it the same old circus from before?
 
Synsensa said:
People are saying MJ is a pedo again? Did something new come to light or is it the same old circus from before?
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There's been a lot of new reporting and a documentary in the last year or so that have changed the general perception from "seems sketchy but so does the testimony" to "yeah if like, 1/3 of this is true he was terrible."
 
Hygro said:
It was pretty funny. Chapelle was always like this. His jokes are sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, addict-abusing, homeless-insulting, cliche ridden, and yet somehow he spins it just right that most his core audience "gets it" and comes away less of those things. People's biggest issue with transgenderism is that for many people it's simply super alien. Teasing and jokes, even hazing to a degree, can be harmful, but it can also be what allows people to become one family and get comfortable with each other. What makes one another normal to one another. And normal becomes accepted. That some of his audience uses that to reinforce their bigotry is a part of why he quit for so many years. He plays with fire.
That's a good one.
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Lexicus said:
I saw one of Chappelle's comeback specials a couple of years ago, and I just thought it wasn't very good compared to his earlier material. Some of it was undeniably just playing transphobia for laughs.

Idk if the spirit of his material has remained the same, and I (along with the world) changed in the meantime, or if he lost the spirit of the earlier work and has just replaced the observational subversive humor with rather boring transgression-as-humor.

Dave Chappelle told me that police violence against black people in the US was a systemic problem a full decade before Black Lives Matter even existed.
Click to expand...
I said in another thread that in recent Chapelle specials, his jokes about gay people felt to me like he doesn't like them but can't say that any more and is paying lip service to their equality while making fun of them. I feel like a common refrain was (paraphrasing) - I'm fine with them doing whatever they want to do but....

I wish I had some examples to go with but that was how I felt watching them at the time. And the rest of it wasn't that funny to me to be honest.
 
Ok I've been thinking about this. Had to delete a few replies over the past day. PRETTY wasted so you can all nail me later for bad form. Ready?
'"/
Chapelle is a pop comic. That means he'a a) basic. B) gonna say quote marks "everything" but really not everything but a lot of the conversation.

He covers a lot of ground. He's gonna use a lot of cliches. Remember when I said he's guilty of the isms? Yeah, been like that. "Chappelle taught me of police oppresion" don't kid yourself SLASH/ he's still going. It's really up to you. As a POP comic, he's gonna use common tropes to excite you, but it's mirror. Yeah there's him and if it grosses you out too much it's cool. He says heinous things. But back to the point, he's a mirror, so he's reflecting what excites you back to you. For example: I care about the fact there ARE MORE LIBERALS THAN CONSERVATIVES. My thread got closed, only Lexicus addressed it directly. Heart emoji. Drunk. ayyyy. So like, Chapelle said something I've been saying. We should own guns, then they'll ban guns. Ofc he said it better, blacker, and realer. So that's what I got out of it.

840 points. Yo. transgenderism, important. Acceptance? Important. Support? Important. Terrorism by crazy semi-lone wolf but semi coordinated? I hope the FBI is on it because important. I say we arm up, I know you all disagree, it's fine. I can't afford a gun anyway, I'm not judging you all otherwise. And I don't plan on using them so why bother. But. They respect amendment 2. We outnumber. We can SIMULTANEOUSLY befriend and threaten them by owning the same guns and going to the range and chatting them while practicing our bulleyes. Damn. We don't have to but we can accelerate the legislative process because they'll go, damn you mean it. And then we save the planet, global warming.

Or not. But Chapelle is saying it too. But he's also offending you. Fine. Whatever. Just understand, @Berzerker has been your ally since 2000.
 
Narz said:
In summary, the joke is that getting molested by michael jackson is like winning the lottery of getting molested (better by him than a pervy uncle). I didn't find it that funny but also not that horrible.

No one listening to this is gonna think "oh molestation is not a big deal", it's like jokes about 9/11 or the holocaust, well maybe a lil worse since those are over
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In comedy that point is key, not being funny. Chappelle was Not funny. He is no George Carlin who manages to be both funny and insightful. He is trying to be edgy and insightful but falls flat and sounds like a grown up whining about his fears. He sympathizes with black men accused of the worst things all the time because he relates (MJ, Cosby, Kobe, Chris Brown) to the fear of being targetted due to his minority group, and yet reserves no sympathy in his comedy towards the LGBTQs and specific ally targets them due to their minority group, saying they push to hard for social change, ruin his cherished memories and takes offense at being unable to say the f word when he's allowed to use n word (while he would take issue with a white person using the n word, but wants to be able to use the f word himself). It's not funny because it's hypocritical, not equal opportunity making fun of everyone.

What I do find funny however are people who argue certain critics for being politically correct are virtue signalling themselves.
 
I like politically incorrect jokes, the more offensive the better.

Jokes about women and gays aren't really offensive enough and are so 80's and 90's.

Same with blonde jokes in the early 90's.

Half the point of comedy is to offend.
 
Zardnaar said:
I like politically incorrect jokes, the more offensive the better.

Jokes about women and gays aren't really offensive enough and are so 80's and 90's.

Same with blonde jokes in the early 90's.

Half the point of comedy is to offend.
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Sure but if that's a response to me, that wasn't my point. Chapelle is careful not too offend black people or the great black men he admires, and takes offense himself at perceived slights against him. Hypocritical, not politically incorrect.
 
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