I didn't see it until about six months ago. It instantly became my favorite Tarantino film. Mostly because it's one of his more grounded in reality and not so pseudophilosophical films.
Critics vs Audience?
- Thread starter Narz
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I didn't see it until about six months ago. It instantly became my favorite Tarantino film. Mostly because it's one of his more grounded in reality and not so pseudophilosophical films.
Narz
keeping it real
Bill Burr's special was much better than Chappelle's. Started off a little boring (railing against PC culture etc) but got better as it got more personal with deeper jokes.
Overall felt more real, deeper and more personal. Chappelle strikes me as a kind of out of touch rich guy trying to convince us he's still a real *****
No critical reviews yet but I suspect they will be higher than Dave's among critics.
Overall felt more real, deeper and more personal. Chappelle strikes me as a kind of out of touch rich guy trying to convince us he's still a real *****
No critical reviews yet but I suspect they will be higher than Dave's among critics.
EgonSpengler
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I spent a few minutes (okay, an hour) Googling last night for movies that had a big disparity between the critics and audiences. Several articles used Rotten Tomatoes, which is a metric I don't like. That didn't really matter, though, because I found that I hadn't really seen many of the movies cited. But that got me to thinking: Most regular audience members tend to go see movies they expect to enjoy, don't they? Critics are among the few groups of people who go see movies regardless of whether they anticipate liking it. They may even go into a movie pissed off that they have to watch it, because it's work and sometimes having to get work done is inconvenient, even if it's work you usually enjoy. I'm sure that's got to skew things, on both sides. I'd expect audiences to be more subject to marketing campaigns, for example, and to the availability of films. Earlier this year, for example, I really wanted to see Fast Color, but I basically wasn't allowed to by the film's distributor, then I read all these articles about how audiences stayed away from it but critics liked it. One of the sites I looked at for discrepancies between critics and audiences cited Netflix's Bright, because of the number of views the movie got. I mean, c'mon... I also remember the movie Drive from a few years ago, which had perhaps the most misleading marketing campaign I'd ever seen; audiences that would have liked it probably didn't go see it, and many people who went to see it probably wanted their money back. I happen to enjoy both the type of movie I expected to see and the type of movie it actually was, and I still had to adjust mid-film.
I was surprised to find that Bend It Like Beckham was more popular with critics than with audiences. I would have expected the opposite, which got me to thinking about something else: The Hype Train. Critics tend to see and review movies early, even before they're released. otoh, a lot of a movie's audience score may be people who were told how awesome the movie was, and then went to see it. Nothing survives The Hype Train.
Anyway. Just thinkin' out loud. I'm still not sure if I tend to go with the critics or the popular opinion.
I was surprised to find that Bend It Like Beckham was more popular with critics than with audiences. I would have expected the opposite, which got me to thinking about something else: The Hype Train. Critics tend to see and review movies early, even before they're released. otoh, a lot of a movie's audience score may be people who were told how awesome the movie was, and then went to see it. Nothing survives The Hype Train.
Anyway. Just thinkin' out loud. I'm still not sure if I tend to go with the critics or the popular opinion.
It's common for movies that I think are good, but are kinda weird or potentially unpleasant, to have a large gap (say around ~20+%) between critics and audiences on Rotten Tomatoes. Some examples among movies I've seen recently that came to mind:
- Lady Bird (99% vs 79%, critics vs audience)
- Get Out (98% vs 86%)
- Moonlight (98% vs 79%)
- Death of Stalin (96% vs 77%)
- Us (93% vs 61%)
- Shape of Water (92% vs 72%)
- Hereditary (89% vs 65%)
Or did something to piss off fans:
- The Last Jedi (91% vs 44%; audience score probably skewed by trolls)
Two I've seen recently that are more popular among audiences than critics:
- Bohemian Rhapsody (61% vs 86%)
- National Treasure (46% vs 76%)
I'll be candid in saying I trust critics much more than audiences at recognizing quality and their preference are much more aligned with mine. For example, I side with the critics for almost all of the above movies (I think a mere 79% for Lady Bird is outrageous, I liked Last Jedi, I hated Bohemian Rhapsody, etc.). Off the top of my head, I can't think of any movies that critics panned, but audiences loved, that I think are good movies. I like National Treasure, but it's really dumb. Sure, a lot of people just want to watch something they enjoy, but I probably won't even enjoy a movie that isn't "good" (unless it's funny-bad, like National Treasure, Face Off, ConAir, the Room), but probably will enjoy a movie that is "good."
- Lady Bird (99% vs 79%, critics vs audience)
- Get Out (98% vs 86%)
- Moonlight (98% vs 79%)
- Death of Stalin (96% vs 77%)
- Us (93% vs 61%)
- Shape of Water (92% vs 72%)
- Hereditary (89% vs 65%)
Or did something to piss off fans:
- The Last Jedi (91% vs 44%; audience score probably skewed by trolls)
Two I've seen recently that are more popular among audiences than critics:
- Bohemian Rhapsody (61% vs 86%)
- National Treasure (46% vs 76%)
I'll be candid in saying I trust critics much more than audiences at recognizing quality and their preference are much more aligned with mine. For example, I side with the critics for almost all of the above movies (I think a mere 79% for Lady Bird is outrageous, I liked Last Jedi, I hated Bohemian Rhapsody, etc.). Off the top of my head, I can't think of any movies that critics panned, but audiences loved, that I think are good movies. I like National Treasure, but it's really dumb. Sure, a lot of people just want to watch something they enjoy, but I probably won't even enjoy a movie that isn't "good" (unless it's funny-bad, like National Treasure, Face Off, ConAir, the Room), but probably will enjoy a movie that is "good."
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These are the two greatest movies ever made in the history of mankind. The word "bad" should never be used to describe them unless it is immediately followed by "ass".
Instead of ass, i would suggest accent. Both movies had quite horrible ones included.
EgonSpengler
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I remember Face/Off making me laugh, although all these years later I can't remember what I thought was funny.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
critics are also part of the audience, they're essentially just the most vocal audience members. so kinda of a false dichotomy. I don't usually listen to the loudest guy in the room. critics are dieing anyway, nowadays people are either tastemakers or influencers 
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
cog philosophy does make some pretty good videos!
Where would I even begin...
What about how John Travolta's family always touches each other's faces? Oh jeez, it's so weird. Why do they do that??
Zkribbler
Deity
TIL that the associate producers of National Treasure are former clients of mine.
aelf
Ashen One
Yes, and no. Critics are part of the audience, but they are also a small minority who are playing a role. Physically wearing masks often changes how you behave, down to the basic movement of the body, and similarly wearing a figurative one in the form of a socially significant role (especially when you tend to think of it as one) also changes how you behave. This is not always true in the case of critics, of course, but I think it often does have an effect that you can see if you analyse their text closely.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
What the critics think usually doesn't correspond to my own tastes when it comes to movies and music. If they are good critics they are looking at it through a purely academic lens (I assume), and to me entertainment is so much more than that. If a certain type of story moves me personally, then I will gravitate to that type of story whether it's considered academically well done or not. The filmography could be crap from the pov of people who do filmography for a living and are experts in it.. but it could be amazing to me personally... so critics can be a good guide whether something is done well or not.. but I don't take it as gospel. Some of my fav. movies have low critic scores
The general public on the other hand is basically a herd of morons. Why would I concur with their average thoughts? It's garbage. Have you listened to "top 40" type music? Have you seen what they are showing on primetime television?
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
I wouldn't put much stock in the "skewed by trolls" theory. A lot of the same right wing anti SJW loonies who took credit for tanking TLJ claimed they were going to do it again with Black Panther. They obviously didn't.
I'm fairly progressive and I hated TLJ. The Force was turned into a beyond absurd deus ex machina (I get that it always was a little bit but TLJ took it to a new level). Luke, who redeemed his genocidal father with his own optimistic faith, pulled a lightsaber on his nephew because of...a feeling. Then later becomes more of a curmudgeon than Yoda. Then there were plot issues and bad editing that brought it down as well.
My money says that divisive film hovering at 44% is about right. Remember the ratings aren't how good it was. They're just a percentage of thumbs up vs thumbs down. 44% might have loved it. 66% said don't bother.
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warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
What does being "progressive" have to do with liking or disliking a Star Wars movie?
Seems as silly as not liking pancakes due to your political views
Seems as silly as not liking pancakes due to your political views
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Pancakes are for Commienazi fascists!
Hm, ok maybe fair. I thought it was good and didn’t really see how the RT score could be so low without angry right wingers brigading. But you could be right *shrug*
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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New trilogy gutted fan favorite characters from the original series. All of Luke & Han's character development across several movies got stripped, that's not going to sit well with fans. Things like extra force magic and high-speed ramming don't help either (the latter pushing luck and begs the question of why relativistic weapons aren't super common for ages before any of the movies).
Blaming the low score on trolls is just being sour lol. Some still enjoyed it, but most didn't.
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
There were a lot of alt right fruit loops that criticized it for the purple haired feminist admiral and the anti capitalist message of the Cantobite scenes. That undermined legit criticism of how poorly the characters and lore were handled. Now I feel like every time I criticize that film I have to preface it with "I'm not an alt right troll, in fact my politics are the opposite. Now can you believe me when I say it sucked?"