Critics vs Audience?

I'm not American. Yes, there is a definite difference between American humor and Canadian humor. I don't actually get most American humor and am baffled why people find it funny. It just seems crude and vulgar.

Not familiar with Canadian humour except for Katherine Ryan.

She turns up a lot on British passport panel shows and I watched her stand up on Netflix.

My wife watches American comedy, I liked The Office, Brooklyn 99 and really liked Parks and Rec.

I don't mind crude humour but it needs to be done well. NZ basically defaults to foreign stuff now, we used to have some good stuff in the 80s and 90s.
 
I suspect alot if comedy is also mock the nearest country.

UK/France
USA/Canada
Australia/New Zealand
Etc

UK is more mock everyone in Europe plus the Americans. Mocking Yanks is to easy though.
 
Chapelle's humor doesn't take aim at persons of color, or, you tune it out and mentally sanitize it because he is who he is?
 
I'm not American. Yes, there is a definite difference between American humor and Canadian humor. I don't actually get most American humor and am baffled why people find it funny. It just seems crude and vulgar.

Trailer Park Boys
 
I like critics, generally, though it definitely depends on the critic. I think the problem is in seeing critics of cultural media as a work of consumer advice or capital extraction. Media interpretation is inherently subjective and personal - no critic's interpretation is going to exactly mirror or represent your own, and aggregating a body of reactions and distilling them all into a simple up-down recommendation is inherently going to leave anybody dissatisfied. To me the purpose of consuming cultural analysis/criticism is to experience somebody else's perception of a piece of media and, hopefully, achieve a new framing of the piece of media which I hadn't previously considered - pretty much the same reason I consume media in the first place.

For example, the youtube channel **** Philosophy a few years back did a critique of Shrek analyzed through a Marxist framework. While the film certainly strains at times under such a monolithic and totalizing analysis, it was kind of a cool exercise, and led me to think about the film in a totally different light which I hadn't previously considered. Did it end with an up-down recommendation, or turn me into a frothing sycophant or hater of the film? No, not at all. But then, that, in my opinion, shouldn't be the point of criticism.

As for Chappelle - I haven't seen the new special, but from the sounds of it, it's of a kind with all of his past work. He's hilarious, insightful and incisive when he's criticizing black culture, or the white perception or interaction therewith, and is pretty awful in every other context. He's rightfully praised for his brilliant sketches like "Do You Know Black People" or "Frontline: Clayton Bigsby" or "The Mad Real World" or "The Racial Draft" or basically anything with Paul Mooney. But those represent a small subset of the sketches which appeared on The Chappelle's Show, and, at least in my opinion, as a comprehensive whole, the show had far more duds than people seem to remember.

As to a "good joke" about an oppressed community by someone not of that community, I think a good example would be George Carlin's bit on the economy of language in the context of how terminology regarding people suffering from PTSD has changed over the years. If you're going to make jokes at the expense of somebody else, the question needs to center on "what is being made fun of." From a structuralist perspective, the purpose of comedy is to identify an internalized contradiction in society and recontextualize in a way that makes that contradiction apparent and expose it such that the audience examines their own underlying base assumptions in a cathartic release. In this way, it follows this same thesis-antithesis-synthesis structure that all art - whether it be a play, a film, or a sonata follows. If you're telling a joke about an oppressed minority group and the punchline of the joke is simply "this person is different - isn't that funny?" or "all your cultural base assumptions about this minority group are true" - then that comic isn't really doing any of the work necessary to tell an effective joke - they're simply reifying the avenues of violence which keep that minority oppressed. They aren't challenging their audience, but rather confirming to that majority audience that it is ok for them to continue doing as they always have.

Carlin's bit is effective because it isn't punching down at people suffering from PTSD, but rather shining a light back at the majority audience. The joke isn't that "people with PTSD are broken isn't that funny?" but rather that, instead of doing anything to alleviate the suffering of people in need of help, we'd rather quibble about the correct terminology we use to refer to them and call it a day at that. Carlin is excoriating the people - many of whom are themselves in the audience - who might fancy themselves "woke" for using the "correct" terminology, but don't actually do the work of alleviating their suffering. It's an incisively identified contradiction - we as a society care enough about these people to police the terminology we use to refer to them, but not enough to actually do anything to help them. Rather, we use euphemistic language to shuffle them into a corner to make them go away, all the while donning the mantle of "a people who care." That's good comedy.
 
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I watched most of a video by a guy that goes by Cinemassacre on youtube yesterday where he talked about the top 10 classic movies that he doesn't like. He prefaced the video by going on about how he wasn't trying to be contrarian or going against classic movies just because they were popular or critically acclaimed.

Then he went through 10 movies and for almost all of them, he started his 'critique' by complaining about how popular they were and he didn't get and didn't like that they were so popular. To be fair, he also prefaced the video by saying he wasn't going to do a deep dive about the plots or cinematography of the movies so I expected a shallow analysis but really it boiled down to him disliking popular stuff because that seemed to be the only complaint he had about most of the movies on his list. I felt cheated by the video and won't be following up with anything else on his channel.
 
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Do you generally concur w critics or the general populace when it comes to art/culture?
There are some movies that I like that most people don't, but that's not quite the same thing as the critic-audience split. I think in general I probably lean more towards the critical reviews when trying to decide whether to see a movie, but that's not a rule written in stone or anything.
 
Then he went through 10 movies and for almost all of them, he started his 'critique' by complaining about how popular they were and he didn't get and didn't like that they were so popular. To be fair, he also prefaced the video by saying he wasn't going to do a deep dive about the plots or cinematography of the movies so I expected a shallow analysis but really it boiled down to him disliking popular stuff because that seemed to be the only complain he had about most of the movies on his list. I felt cheated by the video and won't be following up with anything else on his channel.

I often find that when I say something is overrated people are like "but that doesn't mean it's bad" and I'm always like well yeah I'm not even saying it's bad, just that it's overrated.
 
I often find that when I say something is overrated people are like "but that doesn't mean it's bad" and I'm always like well yeah I'm not even saying it's bad, just that it's overrated.
I really don't have any issues with feeling popular things are overrated. I was annoyed because that's all he had to offer as far as criticisms of the movies after just telling the audience he wasn't going to do that. He literally had nothing else to say about most of the movies except they were too popular and he didn't like that. That's not an analysis or criticism that's worth making a 30 minute video about, much less when you explicitly say that's not the kind of video you're trying to make.
 
I really don't have any issues with feeling popular things are overrated. I was annoyed because that's all he had to offer as far as criticisms of the movie after just telling the audience he wasn't going to do that. He literally had nothing else to say about most of the movies except they were too popular and he didn't like that. That's not an analysis or criticism that's worth making a 30 minute video about, much less when you explicitly say that's not the kind of video you're trying to make.

It's how I feel about Tarantino films. I don't think they're bad, they're actually mostly good, or the ones I've seen anyway, but people really like them more than I feel is warranted.

My favorite Tarantino film is Jackie Brown, maybe because that's basically the only one no one has ever tried to convince me is the Greatest Film Ever Made.
 
It's how I feel about Tarantino films. I don't think they're bad, they're actually mostly good, or the ones I've seen anyway, but people really like them more than I feel is warranted.

My favorite Tarantino film is Jackie Brown, maybe because that's basically the only one no one has ever tried to convince me is the Greatest Film Ever Made.
Same. I haven't seen Jackie Brown but I feel like a lot of his movies are vastly overrated and I actively hated some of them and don't understand why they're lauded as much as they are. There are some great ones for sure but I feel a lot of their popularity is driven by the fact that they (and he) are popular, not that they're good. If that makes any sense.

But I'm not making youtube videos complaining about how Titanic has too many fans and that makes it a bad movie. Like there's a ton of other things to dislike about the movie and just telling us it's too popular and therefore bad is lame.
 
I actively hated some of them

Django Unchained actually sickened me, as in, it made me feel nauseated

But I'm not making youtube videos complaining about how Titanic has too many fans and that makes it a bad movie. Like there's a ton of other things to dislike about the movie and just telling us it's too popular is lame.

Actually this gives me an idea for the prejudice thread :)
 
I actually really like Django. :sad:

I can't stand Kill Bill. I thought Pulp Fiction was just ok. I couldn't finish Inglorious Basterds and I really tried.
 
Ha, this was my dissertation topic.

Generally, as some have mentioned, critics are at best guides for you if you have already decided that your tastes match up with particular ones' (it could be because these critics have influenced your tastes in that particular way). Yes, it's all a matter of taste, not anything objective, and my analysis of the language of film criticism showed that critics use class identifiers in their text to signal what kind of tastes they have, thereby telling you who they are writing for. They may also hint that they're not interested in appealing to you if you don't identify with these markers to begin with.

Personally, reading a variety of critics as well as criticism by average audience members gives me a better picture of what I can expect.
 
It's how I feel about Tarantino films. I don't think they're bad, they're actually mostly good, or the ones I've seen anyway, but people really like them more than I feel is warranted.

My favorite Tarantino film is Jackie Brown, maybe because that's basically the only one no one has ever tried to convince me is the Greatest Film Ever Made.
I found it heartening when a recent listener's poll on a film review podcast named Jackie Brown as Tarantino's best film. That was the only one of his movies that I really liked. I thought Pulp Fiction was alright, and I suspect I'd have liked Reservoir Dogs more if I'd seen it when it came out, before The Hype Train ran it over. Kill Bill was okay. I haven't seen a Tarantino film since Kill Bill, vol 2. (Actually, the 2-part episode of C.S.I. where Nick was buried alive by the psychopath was the last Tarantino "movie" I've seen.)
 
Trailer Park Boys
I have never seen that. There are plenty of Canadian comedians that I have either never heard of or don't find funny.

We're heading into a federal election now. The writ hasn't been formally dropped (it should be in about a week); it's customary not to call a federal election while any of the provinces are having a provincial election, so once Manitoba gets theirs done with, Trudeau will visit the Governor-General and drop the writ. From that point on, the political humor and satire will increase (not all of it will be funny, of course; there are people who think it's hilarious to eviscerate the Prime Minister's mother and children).
 
I have never seen that. There are plenty of Canadian comedians that I have either never heard of or don't find funny.

My point was just that it is Canadian but is also very crude and vulgar. I don't think generalizing about the humor of entire countries is very useful.
 
I've always felt like Tarantino had niche appeal but his fans are so hardcore they push his movies on everyone. I've liked some. Pulp Fiction and True Romance(different director) were my favorites. I haven't seen Jackie Brown but now I'm going to have to look for it.

So, did this thread get started because of the Chappelle thing? The 0% on RT for his latest special? I've been halfassed paying attention to the thread and couldn't figure out why it got so laser focused on Chappelle.

Whatever you think of his comedy saying he deserves the 0% is pretty similar to the right wingers who claim Kaepernick isn't good enough to play in the NFL. We all know its bullfeathers.
 
My point was just that it is Canadian but is also very crude and vulgar. I don't think generalizing about the humor of entire countries is very useful.
The last time I found any American sitcom funny was back in the '80s. I've tried some since, and have tried to figure out what is supposed to be funny about them. I can't. I honestly don't find them funny.

I appreciate clever humor, not vulgar humor. That's why I can tolerate George Carlin. Some of his stuff is definitely clever, while somewhat vulgar. And when I find a Canadian comedian whose 'humor' is vulgar, I don't like them, either.

There is one American comedian I liked: Mike Neun. He had a show on PBS, and toured around various cities in that area. He came to Canada on a tour, back in the '90s, to Calgary, Red Deer, and Edmonton, and I went to see his show. It was nice to get to meet him and tell him that my dad had actually tried one of the solutions he sang about in his "Drug the Bugs" song (about how to get rid of ants). He was curious to know if it worked.
 
one morning I woke up and walked into the kitchen all bleary eyed. As I finally began to focus the walls appeared to be moving. I walked up closer and saw ants...everywhere. The wall in front of me, the wall across the kitchen and every other wall. Just lines of ants, thousands and thousands. I walked outside and found where they were coming in and plopped down a chunk of hamburger, maybe an 1/8 lb. They were gone within an hour, they left the kitchen and there was no evidence they were ever there. I thought they might return expecting me to feed them but they never returned. That was SoCal, here in Kansas the only time I see lines of ants is during thunderstorms. Sometimes they seemingly show up before the storms arrive.
 
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