Crusader Kings 2

[Thorgalaeg]

Well Harald died at 61 and everything went to hell. Almost all southern England was divided among brothers so now i have to reconquer it again. i dont think it will be too hard though since Harald left a good amount of cash so his son can spend it all hiring merceneries. Once that is done i plan to continue the old plans and conquer Norway. It will be much harder though since all the court and vassals seems to hate the new king with passion. I dont know why since the poor guy is not that worthless after all, (15 military talent) and even being homosexual he has a couple of sons! (so being gay is a good thing after all for gavelkind succesion )

 

[Double A]

Homosexual is actually one of the least terrible negative traits. 10% fertility isn't a whole lot.

 

[Arakhor]

You can also give your firstborn basically all your titles but one or two when you get incredibly old. He'll always get your capital.

Unless they've changed that recently, that's specifically why you can't do that under Gavelkind.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Which reminds me of another great advantage of Gavelkind: No prestige penalty for unlanded sons! That's a nice boon for people with many children, considering otherwise you have to "organize" titles for them (which will make them leave your court).

 

[Yeekim]

How do I do this?

Going hunting is rather certain to fire an event that gives you "Diligent" trait, while holding feasts could fire an event that gives "Just".

 

[cardgame]

Yeah, getting your sons to leave your court for their own lands is really pretty awful to deal with and the first time I did it I didn't know what I was doing, so I didn't even forge marriage alliances before I gave them their own titles... I had no control over my own family.

 

[Yeekim]

You can also give your firstborn basically all your titles but one or two when you get incredibly old. He'll always get your capital.

No he won't - at least with the latest patches. I was the emperor of Scandinavia with capital in Denmark, Skane. My firstborn kept the emperor title along with kingdoms of Norway, Sweden and Finland - but lost kingdom of Denmark alongside with entire personal demesne to the second son. My court got removed to some backwater Finnish province.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I got back and tried some funny experiments so the kingdom keeps united after Harald dead. I jailed and executed most of my sons (not including the eldest one of course) and gave all the tittles i could to my grandson (the firstborn of my firstborn) since for some reason i could not give them to my firstborn son directly. I dont know what happened exactly but apart of all my vassals thinking i was a monster and the consequent rebellions, when Harald died the kingdom became a republic so the game ended.

 

[PhilBowles]

I got back and tried some funny experiments so the kingdom keeps united after Harald dead. I jailed and executed most of my sons (not including the eldest one of course) and gave all the tittles i could to my grandson (the firstborn of my firstborn) since for some reason i could not give them to my firstborn son directly. I dont know what happened exactly but apart of all my vassals thinking i was a monster and the consequent rebellions, when Harald died the kingdom became a republic so the game ended.

CKII is one of the best expressions of the law of unintended consequences you'll find...

Not sure why this would happen, though - was your son's highest title a city-type title, since someone mentioned earlier that a Duke-level mayor founds a republic? Also not sure why this would cause the game to end - can you not carry on as a republican leader?

 

[scheva007]

Started as gotland, looks pretty relax untill now. After 25y ive got 12 trade post, the other families each 4. Ask the pope for money and build trade posts with it

It will probably become more difficult when im no longer head of the republic

 

[Thorgalaeg]

CKII is one of the best expressions of the law of unintended consequences you'll find...

Not sure why this would happen, though - was your son's highest title a city-type title, since someone mentioned earlier that a Duke-level mayor founds a republic? Also not sure why this would cause the game to end - can you not carry on as a republican leader?

Yes! the only tittles my son had were two cities. Also, after passing all tittles to his grandson, all the tittles remaining in Haralds hands were a county and three duchies (i could not give any duchy to my grandson because he automatically became king of a new independent kingdom )

BTW after giving up with the tricks i continued playing the normal game with Harald´s son, i succesfully suppressed all rebellions reconquered most of southern england and got some peace for a couple of years. However the guy (his name was Otarr or something like that) died at 41 yo only and his daughter took over the throne since his brother was dead. So, this time there was not any divission due to gavelkind. But it looks like norses dont like queens at all and every single noble claimed independence so i lost even my capital, since i had no more troops nor money left after so many continuous war. The only territories remaining under the queen rule were zeeland and some worthless frozen piece of land at the northernmost point of Norway. Finally i gave up.

It is funny but very hard to play with the norses, the are extremely autodestructive. Also once you get a queen you are mostly screwed, nobody wants to marry her under matrilineal marriage, not even the last beggar in the kingdom (and she was reasonably pleasing to the eye btw... )

 

[cardgame]

Daenerys died in the Eastern Lands from illness before I could invade Westeros

End of game because there was no marriage or heir, I was trying to find an alliance but Qarth was out of the question and nobody else was even eligible.

 

[PhilBowles]

Yes! the only tittles my son had were two cities. Also, after passing all tittles to his grandson, all the tittles remaining in Haralds hands were a county and three duchies (i could not give any duchy to my grandson because he automatically became king of a new independent kingdom )

Did Harald succeed in becoming King of Norway (or of England, since you mentioned he had land there)? I presume that, as with the other Norse and English rulers, the rank he starts with before founding Norway is "Petty King". The rank system considers a petty king equivalent in rank to a duke (it's an effort to reflect the fact that, despite the feudal mechanics for every faction, 867 is actually before feudalism of the sort the game represents existed in reality - duke is a feudal title). Since you're the same rank, if you, as a petty king, give a duchy away, you can't have the duke as a vassal and he has to become independent (which can sometimes be desirable, for instance if he's getting upset enough at not having a duchy that there's a chance he'll revolt and win independence anyway - I've offloaded Hwicce into its own petty kingdom this way several times, and waited until I was king of England to "offer" vassalisation, on the understanding that they accept or else).

BTW after giving up with the tricks i continued playing the normal game with Harald´s son, i succesfully suppressed all rebellions reconquered most of southern england and got some peace for a couple of years. However the guy (his name was Otarr or something like that) died at 41 yo only and his daughter took over the throne since his brother was dead. So, this time there was not any divission due to gavelkind. But it looks like norses dont like queens at all and every single noble claimed independence so i lost even my capital, since i had no more troops nor money left after so many continuous war. The only territories remaining under the queen rule were zeeland and some worthless frozen piece of land at the northernmost point of Norway. Finally i gave up.

I don't know if she's a pregenerated character (i.e. a daughter Ivar has at the start of the game), since she always seems to show up, but Holmfridr of Sudrevjar usually becomes queen in my games, and she always has a very hard time with rebellions. In one she won and was my major competitor in Britain for a while, but in this iteration Sudrevjar is basically gone - I think she's still alive (haven't played for a week or so) and in charge of maybe one or two counties.

Then again I've had queens of my own (and I don't mean homosexual rulers as in your experience...) and the Christians don't much seem to like them either.

It is funny but very hard to play with the norses, the are extremely autodestructive. Also once you get a queen you are mostly screwed, nobody wants to marry her under matrilineal marriage, not even the last beggar in the kingdom (and she was reasonably pleasing to the eye btw... )

While I defer to the greater experience of those saying gavelkind is great for the Norse, I very much doubt this is the case for players new to the game - you need enough understanding of the advantages of the system, why a mere +1 demense limit is so desirable, and how to manage the penalties from competing claimants (which I certainly don't have) to be able to make use of it effectively. Your experience is pretty much exactly as I expected from the moment you mentioned having so many sons. In my first ever CKII game I was William of Normandy, married my family members off to various notables elsewhere in Europe, and because of gavelkind succession giving all my children claims, I ended up with half of Europe having hereditary claims on my kingdom, which they weren't shy about pressing.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Did Harald succeed in becoming King of Norway (or of England, since you mentioned he had land there)? I presume that, as with the other Norse and English rulers, the rank he starts with before founding Norway is "Petty King". The rank system considers a petty king equivalent in rank to a duke (it's an effort to reflect the fact that, despite the feudal mechanics for every faction, 867 is actually before feudalism of the sort the game represents existed in reality - duke is a feudal title). Since you're the same rank, if you, as a petty king, give a duchy away, you can't have the duke as a vassal and he has to become independent (which can sometimes be desirable, for instance if he's getting upset enough at not having a duchy that there's a chance he'll revolt and win independence anyway - I've offloaded Hwicce into its own petty kingdom this way several times, and waited until I was king of England to "offer" vassalisation, on the understanding that they accept or else).

Correct. I didnt become King of Norway so i was a petty king.

I don't know if she's a pregenerated character (i.e. a daughter Ivar has at the start of the game), since she always seems to show up, but Holmfridr of Sudrevjar usually becomes queen in my games, and she always has a very hard time with rebellions. In one she won and was my major competitor in Britain for a while, but in this iteration Sudrevjar is basically gone - I think she's still alive (haven't played for a week or so) and in charge of maybe one or two counties.

Then again I've had queens of my own (and I don't mean homosexual rulers as in your experience...) and the Christians don't much seem to like them either.

They was named Rognhildur or something like that. Dont knw if it is a historical character.

While I defer to the greater experience of those saying gavelkind is great for the Norse, I very much doubt this is the case for players new to the game - you need enough understanding of the advantages of the system, why a mere +1 demense limit is so desirable, and how to manage the penalties from competing claimants (which I certainly don't have) to be able to make use of it effectively. Your experience is pretty much exactly as I expected from the moment you mentioned having so many sons. In my first ever CKII game I was William of Normandy, married my family members off to various notables elsewhere in Europe, and because of gavelkind succession giving all my children claims, I ended up with half of Europe having hereditary claims on my kingdom, which they weren't shy about pressing.

I have played previously a couple of games only mostly as christian Spain against the moors and such and not knowing very well how the game exactly works all i can say is it was easier IIRC.

 

[Double A]

It will probably become more difficult when im no longer head of the republic

It's cheaper to spend a ton of money on the election than letting someone else be doge, unless your heir will likely be appointed as spymaster. Then you can just murder your way back to the top.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Heh, this is what just happened in my Poland game. King died, one of the two sons became King. The other son became Duke of Prussia and a civil war started, with Greater Poland and a bunch of other smaller kingdoms breaking off as well. So then you had Prussia mostly between Poland and Hungary, and an even larger Greater Poland off to the side.. and then more Prussia. And since one of the brothers was married to a Danish princess, occasional Danish troops here and there. And the HRE meddling 1too, but I'm not sure exactly what they did tbh..

In the end I lost the civil war and my brother became King. I continued attempting to assassinate his heirs, hoping to eventually get back in the game.. and I ended up killing two of them, but I also died multiple times in the process, eventually becoming a Baroness who would produce me no offspring in the Piast dynasty.. So I quit the game.

The HRE also somehow now controls Krakow and the Polish capital is on a Polish island deep in Hungarian territory.

Fun first game! Will try again

Now that you got the hang of it, you should try some mods!

 

[scheva007]

It's cheaper to spend a ton of money on the election than letting someone else be doge, unless your heir will likely be appointed as spymaster. Then you can just murder your way back to the top.

Idk, with a prestige gap of 5000.... And doges are already pretty old when they come to power usually

 

[Double A]

Idk, with a prestige gap of 5000.... And doges are already pretty old when they come to power usually

5000 is a pretty damn big exception. I'm talking about like 300 at most.

 

[scheva007]

5000 is a pretty damn big exception. I'm talking about like 300 at most.

its because you start so young as the leader of gotland, that your heir is too. but it evens out after a while. Only problem is that im basicly stationary now. i filled in my 27 possible trade posts, but now the max number has dropped to 19 because of a family member or two not having sons.

tech seems to stop when you'r not in charge, so im gonna hve a few boring years to come. doubt i will make it to 80 trade posts with this slow rate, whole republic is on about 55

 

[Double A]

Murder is always an option.