CTIV-2: The Money Game

[Methos]

Situation Assessment:
Since we are going with Free Religion as one of our new civics, I agree with the missionary building. We need to get all of the religions to every city we have. Every religion grants a +1 happy. Granted, I’ll probably attempt a few missionaries towards the end of my turnset and veto the current one in Beijing.

Seems like we’re not sticking entirely to our variant rules, improvement-wise that is. Wonder if we should start adding that to every roster like LK does, so we don’t keep forgetting? I know I’ve forgotten a few times.

According to the graph we’re the third most powerful civ, so we shouldn’t worry too much about someone declaring on us. Granted that doesn’t make me feel any better seeing all those annoyed faces. The bad thing is we currently have a +6 and +8 modifier for same religion with Capac and Isabelle, respectively. It’ll suck losing that, but we’ll also lose a -1, -3, -3, and -4 modifier.

Seems like we’re using great merchants to fund our research. Though this works, its making our variant look not as powerful as it at first seemed. I believe that may have more to do with our lack of infrastructure than anything else.

Guess I should start.

Turn 235 (1625 AD)
Beijing begins: Islamic Monastery
Methos: I decide to swith Beijing to an Islamic Monastery for the boost in science.
Guangzhou grows: 8
Guangzhou finishes: Theatre

Turn 236 (1630 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Grocer
Methos: Due to the variant rules, I queue a grocer in Guan.
Shanghai finishes: Granary
Tianjin grows: 2

Turn 237 (1635 AD)
Shanghai begins: Courthouse
Beijing finishes: Islamic Monastery
Guangzhou grows: 9
Nanjing's borders expand
Nanjing finishes: Forge

Turn 238 (1640 AD)
Beijing begins: Theatre
Nanjing begins: Grocer
Methos: JC has a monopoly on Gundpowder and won't trade. Didn't expect him too.
Tech learned: Constitution
Tianjin finishes: Obelisk

Turn 239 (1645 AD)
Tianjin begins: Lighthouse
Caravel defeats (3.00/3): Barbarian Galley
Wang Anshi (Great Merchant) born in Beijing
Methos: In our exploration of the seas, I cross paths with a pirate ship. Since it is unprepared for battle, I am able to sink it flawlessly.
Methos: Take a look at the occupants of this island! We saw in DH-03 an AI settler rest on an island for so long we were able to build a settler, send him to the island, and settle. I'm curious how long these two will sit there.

Turn 240 (1650 AD)
Methos: Our great merchant will get us 1110 beakers for Corporation (out of 2080). To self research it would take 6 turns, so the GP would shave off three turns for us. IMO I don't believe it's worth it. Cash would probably be best.

Turn 240 (1650 AD)
Beijing finishes: Theatre
Shanghai's borders expand
Xian finishes: Granary
Hangzhou grows: 5

Turn 241 (1655 AD)
Beijing begins: University
Xian begins: Market
Xian grows: 8

Turn 242 (1660 AD)
Beijing grows: 12
Chengdu's borders expand

Turn 243 (1665 AD)
Tech learned: Liberalism
Nanjing grows: 9

Turn 244 (1670 AD)
Tech learned: Astronomy
Methos: We're the first to Liberalism and I have to Alt out of the game to check the tech tree to make sure Astronomy is on our bee-line. It is so I choose Astronomy as our free tech.
Methos: I also immediately revolt so the next player starts with a fresh turnset.
Methos: Astronomy means we now have trade routes with everyone, so let's let the trading commence!

Turn 245 (1675 AD)
Methos: Nothing to trade at the moment, oh well.
Methos: Everyone except Saladin is cautious with us. He's still annoyed.
Methos: Due to our new civics I was able to sign Open Borders with both JC and Genghis. Saladin still won't relent.
Methos: I whip the Grocer in Guan.

Notes:
-Due to Free Religion Shanghai has an angry citizen. We need to start spreading religion in all of our cities to get max happiness up. Yeah I know, I said I was going to but didn’t get around to it.
-I’m a little confused here. Free Speech grants +100% culture yet Tianjin has only the +1 culture from the obelisk, but is now at +4. Why is it at +300%?
-BTW, the last time I passed through there both settlers were still resting on that island.
-Our merchant is in a galley heading towards Beshalik (sp?). It's one of the top 5 cities according to F8 and a fair distance from us. Figured it would be the best spot. It's not on goto so can be switched.

Here’s the 1675 AD save.

Roster:
ChrTh
afpunk- skipped (MIA?)
Methos- Just Played
Conroe- Up
Bede- On Deck

Variant Rules:
Required Builds (all cities of size 3 or higher must build once available unless there is a military requirement -- they can finish what they're working on first; in case of National Wonders, must build asap):
Banks
Grocer
Harbor
Market
Forbidden Palace
Wall Street

Preferred Builds (Try very hard to build)
----
Courthouse
Forge
Colossus
Eiffel Tower
Great Lighthouse
Statue of Liberty
Versailles

 

[Methos]

I almost forgot, the city on the island to the northwest will not grow very well without a lighthouse. In two turns it's cultural borders will expand to gain the fish. We need to improve that tile to raise the population up enough to whip the lighthouse.

There was something else, but I forgot already.

 

[ChrTh]

I think my variant rules probably are too harsh, which is why I haven't been more strict on enforcing. However, you're right, at this point we should be keeping at it.

Beshalik is probably a good choice.

Hmmm...technically you violated the variant rules when you jumped to the next beeline with Astronomy research. Liberalism had been our 'off the beeline' tech this path so Corporation should've been the free tech. However, my comments were probably confusing; I had forgotten Liberalism gave a free tech, so my comment about Astronomy was for post-Corporation ... oh well. At least we're trying to stay in the variant rules

We're allowed to research 2 other techs off the path to Industrialism. Since Eiffel Tower and Statue of Liberty are both desired, we should probably research Democracy and Radio off path. Of course, that would mean skipping Rifling, or Steel/Railroad, so we might want to reconsider based on the current situation.

For the curious, here's what we have to research after Corporation (in any order permitted):
Scientific Method
Physics (Free Scientist!)
Electricity
Printing Press
Gunpowder
Chemistry
Replaceable Parts
Steam Power
Assembly Line
Industrialism

 

[Methos]

Whoops, sorry about the Astronomy thing. If you'd prefer I can go back to my 5 turn save and replay it. I recalled the discussion on Astronomy so assumed as long as it was on our bee-line it was okay. Again, my mistake and apologies.

@ChrTh: Do you want that replayed?

 

[ChrTh]

No, not at all. The purpose of this SG was just to play around with a Financial focus; this wasn't some strict variant. We've held pretty close to that, and that's all that matters.

Besides, if the Cuban Isolationalists can stretch their rules a little bit, why can't we?

 

[Conroe]

It looks like I'm up.

As expected we gained another great merchant. Conroe suggested using him for Corporation, but I'm not sure that's wise.

You know, I don't recall suggesting this. But, I would agree with everyone else, trade mission all the way. Take the money and run!

-I'm a little confused here. Free Speech grants +100% culture yet Tianjin has only the +1 culture from the obelisk, but is now at +4. Why is it at +300%?

Does the city have a religion? I don't recall. If it does, you would get +1 culture from the religion.

I think my variant rules probably are too harsh, which is why I haven't been more strict on enforcing. However, you're right, at this point we should be keeping at it.

Personally, I don't find the rules too harsh. In fact, considering these rules, I'm surprised at how well we are doing. For me it is the quantity of rules. I find that I must reread the first post before playing. Even then, I can still miss something. I don't know, maybe its because I'm too old. They do say, the memory is the first to go.

 

[Methos]

You know, I don't recall suggesting this. But, I would agree with everyone else, trade mission all the way. Take the money and run!

Whoops, my mistake. I just checked and it was actually ChrTh who suggested it. Sorry about the misquote.

 

[Conroe]

Not worried about the misquote. I was just adding my 2 cents about going for the gold!

Out of curiosity, what determines the value of a GM trade route? You mentioned Beshalik as a Top5 city. Is it the population and distance from our capitol/borders that determines the gold?

 

[Conroe]

Situation Assessment: Overall, we are in pretty good shape. It's hard to complain when you're in first place, right?

BTW, did anyone happen to notice the Arabian capitol? Eight resources are within the city radius!

We've got 1600 gold in the bank and we are spending it at -23gpt with 100% on the research slider. We've got a Great Merchant in a Galley with orders to head to Vegas and double down. Our research on the Corporation beeline will be complete in 5 turns.

Our army continues to be our weakest point. We are down to 4th place in the demographics screen. IIRC, we were in 3rd place at one time. We definitely need more troops. Unfortunately, most of our cities are busy on their required builds. I'm not sure how many troops I will be able to train during this turnset, but I should be able to get us started on an army.

Turn 0 - 1675AD: Shanghai is past its happiness limits and has 1 angry citizen. I go ahead and turn on the avoid growth button. I decide to preempt the University at Beijing for an Islamic Missionary for Shanghai's happiness problems.

I notice that we are running several merchant specialists in some of our cities. I didn't see anything about this in our variant (did I miss it?), so I am going to go ahead and fire most of these folks and put them to work in the fields.

And lastly, I decide to spend some of our hard earned cash on an army. We've got 9 Warriors hanging around. It will cost 1710 gold to upgrade all of them. I decide to upgrade 3 of them for 570 gold. The other 3 have no experience, and I really hate upgrading inexperienced Warriors (from waaay baaaack in the old CivIII days). The upgrade to Pikeman was a little cheaper. I look around, though, and noticed that Hatshepsut is the only other civ with access to both iron and horses. Capac will have both when he gets a border expansion at Vilcas. Since Knights may not be an issue, we may be able to hold off on them until the Rifleman comes around.

After all of my shananigans, we've got only 1030 gold in the treasury and we are spending it at -51gpt. Losing those specialists has also added a turn to the Corporation research. After some population growth, we will get that back, though.

IBT: JC demands tribute in the form of our world map. I see no harm at this point, so I go ahead and give it to him.

Meanwhile, Capac builds the Taj Mahal and starts a golden age.

Turn 1 - 1680AD: Guangzhou completes its whipped Grocer and starts on a University. With only 1 hammer, this city won't be done with it until its my turn to play again!

Chengdu completes its Courthouse and starts a Harbor.

It looks like there may be a lot of unsettled land in the south. Then I notice a lot of land between the Arabian and Egyptian empires, including an island full of gemstones. We need Settlers, ASAP! And, doggoneit, I just gave our map away to JC! I change the just queued University at Guangzhou over to a Settler. I then preempt Shanghai's Courthouse for a to-be-whipped Galleon.

Turn 2 - 1685AD: The NW island of Tianjin gets a border expansion. We can now work those fish. I should have done this sooner, but I queue up a to-be-whipped-next-turn Work Boat.

Two turns -- two mistakes. What a batting average! Are we sure that reloading is not allowed?

Turn 3 - 1690AD: Beijing completes training of our Islamic Missionary and starts on a Settler. Meanwhile, the missionary spreads Islam to Shanghai. Shanghai's happiness problem is temporarily relieved, until the whipping begins, that is.

Speaking of whips, that Work Boat at Tianjin Isle.

Meanwhile, our Galley with the Great Merchant rendezvous' with a slightly faster Caravel. Our GM is still bound for the Mongolian city of Beshbalik.

Turn 4 - 1695AD: The ice city of Hangzhou completes its Market and begins a forge. This size 6 city is at its happiness limit (w/o any religion), but it only has enough food for one more citizen.

Tianjin finishes its Work Boat and resumes the Lighthouse build.

Turn 5 - 1700AD: Nothing but exploring. I've found silver and marble at the south pole.

IBT: Toynbee hits the NY Times BestSeller list. It seems we are but a mediocre civ. Well, I've got 2 Settlers being trained. Maybe we can do something about it.

 

[Conroe]

Turn 6 - 1705AD: Corporation is learned. From CT's list, I chose Gunpowder as our next tech. Although, on this map, our boys are going to have a tough time keeping their powder dry. Just for grins, I check out the GM's new tech offering: 1100 beakers towards Printing Press.

Next, that Settler up in Guangzhou. It will be done next turn. Another Settler and the Galleon will be done in 2 turns. It looks like the whip in Shanghai will not be needed after all. Meanwhile, I load up a Maceman and a Worker into a Galley. The Galley won't be able to make the entire trip, but it will be able to rendezvous with the Galleon after it delivers the Settlers.

IBT: One of our Caravels is ambushed by a barb Galley. He takes quite a bit of damage but survives. After a promotion, he can continue exploring rather than losing 4 turns for healing.

Turn 7 - 1710AD: Our Great Merchant finally arrives at the Mongolian port of Beshbalik. The trade mission is worth 1500 gold. Before getting down to business, though, he has a look around:

Now that's a navy!

We now have 2185 gold in the treasury and are spending it at -49gpt at 100% on the research slider.

IBT: Kahn stops by and offers to trade Cow for Horses. As much as I love a good steak, there is no way I'm going to give Genghis Kahn a horse!

Turn 8 - 1715AD: Nanjing completes its Grocer and starts on a Barracks. This would be a good troop training site.

Beijing completes its Settler training and resumes work on its University. In Shanghai, our Galleon is ready and the city resumes work on its Courthouse. Our newly constructed Galleon then heads SE with 2 Settlers and a Maceman on board.

IBT: JC begins a golden age just as Capac concludes his.

Turn 9 - 1720AD: We now know all about Gunpowder and I start us studying the wonders of Chemistry. Grenadiers for defense and Frigates to rule the seas!

Our Galleon has arrived at the island with the gems. The northern tip of the island appears to be uninhabited.

IBT: The war horns sound! Saladin has declard war on Isabella.

Turn 10 - 1725AD: One of our wandering Caravels spots a Roman Galleon.

The gems island is definitely still uninhabited. I dropped one of the Settlers on the island. The other Settler and the Maceman are still on the Galleon and can be unloaded if you like my dot map.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that I like my dot map, but I couldn't think of anything better. Both cities will have all of the resources within there city radii. Both cities will be able to share the only food resource that allows for growth. The clams will be 5 food after the Work Boat is built. But, they will need at least one border expansion to work the clams and we no longer have a cheap Obelisk that can be built. And last, there are 4 grassland tiles underneath all of that jungle; I didn't want to lose any of them by putting a city on top of them.

Anyway, feel free to veto my suggestions. While the Galleon has no movement, you can still unload the Settler. Don't dawdle too much, as Saladin has a Settler in a Galley that will be there next turn. The Galley with the other Maceman and the Worker still has movement. They, of course, will have to be transferred to the Galleon before making it to the island.

There is another Settler due in 5 turns out of Guangzhou. May I suggest another Settler in addition to this one? Just south of the gems island is this nice little island chain. Not sure if anyone has grabbed them, yet; although, I assume not since this big island was still available. Bear in mind, though, that Saladin's Galley can now reach all of these islands.

Oh, I almost forget. About my objective of building us an army .... uh, ummm, no. Somebody really does need to do that. Personally, I think we should be building troops rather than missionaries. Of course, I built 1 missionary and 0 troops during my 10 turns.

 

[ChrTh]

Roster:
ChrTh -- On Deck
afpunk
Methos
Conroe -- Just Played
Bede -- UP

 

[Bede]

Got it and play it tomorrow.

 

[Bede]

Turn 255 (1725 AD)
Bejing goes back to having two Merchants in its population. The Merchants net out three gold (equal to the coastal tiles), get a small research kicker and get us points towards another merchant.
Spent some time thinking about that and this seems to be as good a time as any to generate them. By the time this one is ready to go make a trade mission we will be in really costly knowledge territory and the cash will come in handy
Check out the civics and it seems to me that Free Speech brings us no benefit as there are no Towns in the realm. Check the variant to make sure revolting back to Bureaucracy does not violate the letter or the spirit. Since there is no compelling reason to allow Free Speech and the 50% extra gold in the capital is very compelling, at least to me, I swap back to Bureaucracy for the money.


More religion gets passed around Confucianism has spread: Hangzhou

Turn 256 (1730 AD)
Macau founded
Shandong founded
Founding the two towns costs us 9gpt out of the treasury. The galley heads off back to Shanghai to pick up another worker and some more defense. There is a lot of jungle to cut but at least one open grassland that can take a cottage after the border expands.
Taoism has spread: Macau
The spread of Taoism to Macau makes the culture building unneccesary so the build is switched to a lighthouse

The lady is not pleased at my decision so our relations retreat to cautious even after the trades of iron and horses.


Turn 257 (1735 AD)

Turn 258 (1740 AD)

Turn 259 (1745 AD)

Turn 260 (1750 AD)
Tech learned: Chemistry

Turn 261 (1755 AD)

Turn 262 (1760 AD)

Turn 263 (1765 AD)

Turn 264 (1770 AD)
Tech learned: Printing Press

Saladin wants to reopen the closed borders but I elect not to give him the satisfaction or risk making our relations with Isabella any more strained

Turn 265 (1775 AD)
I had been guarding a South Sea island which held gold, but the Romans got there before the settler galleon could leave the home waters.
There appears to be reasonable alternative to the east towards Egypt

or to the south of Macau with marble and crabs.

There's a couple of hundred gold in the world which we can pick up with map sales. The only other nation with paper is Rome. There is a Buddhist monk due to pop out of Guangzhou as soon as the whip is applied and he can head for Shangdou in any one of a number of boats. That will take care of the cultural expansion down there.

And I did start training at least one Cho-No-Ku. The crossbow type unit I really like because it is relatively cheap and has a nice upgrade path to the gunpowder units. There is a frigate building in Xian to give a little more bite to the navy.

If we were so inclined we could force an end to the Spanish/Arab conflict by brbringing one of the parties to near parity with us in technology. Not sure that serves our interest though. Another approach would extend the conflagration by bringing in others against one or the other. But that probably doesn't serve our purposes either.

 

[Conroe]

Bejing goes back to having two Merchants in its population. The Merchants net out three gold (equal to the coastal tiles), get a small research kicker and get us points towards another merchant.
Spent some time thinking about that and this seems to be as good a time as any to generate them. By the time this one is ready to go make a trade mission we will be in really costly knowledge territory and the cash will come in handy

It is interesting that you did this. I thought long and hard before deciding to fire the merchants. I finally decided to do it because of the 2 food. Ironically, it was from reading your CivIII SG's that I came to that conclusion. In C3C, you would speak out about how powerful the agriculture trait was because of the extra food. It totally changed my way of thinking about city planning. Oh well, back to Civ IV, now ...

In any case, you are absolutely correct about the usefulness of another trade mission. That factor, I failed to consider ...

 

[ChrTh]

Roster:
ChrTh -- UP
afpunk -- On Deck?
Methos -- Better get ready, just in case
Conroe
Bede -- Just Played

I'll be playing tonight.

 

[Bede]

It is interesting that you did this. I thought long and hard before deciding to fire the merchants. I finally decided to do it because of the 2 food. Ironically, it was from reading your CivIII SG's that I came to that conclusion. In C3C, you would speak out about how powerful the agriculture trait was because of the extra food. It totally changed my way of thinking about city planning. Oh well, back to Civ IV, now ...

CIV has taken most of my received wisdom and tossed it cock-a-whoop. The limits to growth have such different effects and sometimes the fixes are not simple or direct when you reach them; just two examples.

 

[ChrTh]

I'm dropping afpunk since he's been gone for almost 2 weeks. If any lurker would like to join, let me know; I'll even accept two. If no one joins before I play later, I'll post to the SG Announce thread.

 

[ChrTh]

Turn 0 -- 1775 AD

Wow, we're looking pretty good tech-wise. After SM comes in, definitely going to work on Physics next for the free scientist. Civics look good. Demos looks good, although I would like to increase the number of soldiers to get us at least 2nd.

Isabella and Saladin have been fighting, but that's just been keeping them down. We have open borders with everyone but Saladin, but that was done to keep Isabella pleased, so I'm ok with that. A lot of people are cautious though.

I sell the World Map around to get some more cash (because you can never have enough!)

I don't like the islands S of Macau for settling ... so far from the homeland, it'd be tough to defend them if attacked. I think the imminent Horse/Clam/Fish island will be our last Settler build for awhile.

A little whip action is applied.

Goals for turn: increase military. Follow variant rules for builds, i.e. cities should build
Banks
Grocer
Harbor
Market
when they reach size 3. Start Forbidden Palace and Wall Street.

Also, I think the Spiral Minaret would be a great Wonder to build for all the extra gold it provides. It might be a risky build in Beijing, but worse-case scenario we get extra cash from it.


Turn 1 -- 1780 AD
Beijing: Cho-ko-nu > Knight (Huh? I can't build Spiral Minaret?)
Guangzhou: Buddhist Missionary > Buddhist Missionary (for new city about to be built)
Nanjing: Cho-ko-nu > Cho-ko-nu
Xian: Frigate > Grocer
Hangzhou: Grocer > Bank

Julius Caesar completes the Spiral Minaret! Ah, that explains it!

We only have 2 workers?

Turn 2 -- 1785 AD

Huh, Shanghai had previously worked on the Spiral Minaret. We got 27 gold!

I start the Frigate do a lazy circling of our islands.

Kaifeng is built.

Turn 3 -- 1790 AD
Shanghai: Cho-ko-nu > Worker
Guangzhou whips another Missionary (last one for awhile)

Turn 4 -- 1795 AD
Guangzhou: Missionary > Courthouse
Buddhism spreads to Guandong

Turn 5 -- 1800 AD
We have entered the Industrial Era!
Scientific Method is in. Physics due in 11.

We have two ocean oils within our boundaries. The only land oil is outside Xian's borders ... I think with its next expansion it'll be in the borders. There's also one south of Macau on one of the islands ... but I doubt we'll get to it before Saladin settles the island.

Julius Caesar has Replaceable Parts, but he won't trade it yet.

Turn 6 -- 1802 AD
Buddhism spreads to Kaifeng.

Turn 7 -- 1804 AD
Beijing: Knight > Workboat (for the Clams so we have an extra to trade)
Nanjing: Cho-ko-nu > Granary
Shanghai whips Worker

Turn 8 -- 1806 AD
Shanghai: Worker > Catapult (what? I like catapults!)
Beijing is unhealthy ... when we get the clams online, lets trade for cows (or is it sheep?) with Genghis
Macau whips Lighthouse

Turn 9 -- 1808 AD
Beijing: Workboat > Grenadier
Macau: Lighthouse > Workboat

Turn 10 -- 1810 AD
Saladin wants us to declare on Spain. I decline.
Hattie wants us to cancel with KHAN!!! ... I decline, she's still pleased.

I accidentally drop of a Cho-Ko-Nu in Kaifeng that was supposed to go to Shandong ... if you want to pick him up, you need to send the galleon back.

Ok, one caravel is fortified down south of Macau keeping an eye on the islands. Another is patrolling in the West while the frigate is patrolling around our borders (manually, they're not automated).

Hangzhou and Guangzhou are both whippable (actually, wait a couple more turns on Guangzhou) ... that'll complete a Bank and a Courthouse, so we'll be able to build Forbidden Palace and Wall Street.

Workboat is for the Clams SE of Nanjing, we can then trade them to Kublai for his cows, and then Beijing will be healthy again.

Here's the save:
View attachment 114448

Roster:
ChrTh -- Just Played
afpunk -- Dropped
Methos -- UP
Conroe -- On Deck
Bede
Open
Open

Oh, and One More Thing(TM): We're now #2 in Soldiers

 

[ChrTh]

One less thing: I just double-checked, and it looks like Kublai already has clams ... let's get us some crabs!

EDIT: We can still probably sell the clams, just not for another health resource.

One other thing: Someone adopted Mercantilism in their term. We might want to cancel Open Borders with them because there's a trade imbalance as a result.

 

[Bede]

Huh, Shanghai had previously worked on the Spiral Minaret. We got 27 gold!

I think I may have cycled through the Minaret at one point, but I don't think I put a turn into it, is it possible the overflow got spnet on the Minaret?