CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

[ChrTh]

Roster:
ChrTh
Space Oddity
Mad-Bax << Just Played
SHard << UP
Wanderer << On Deck
Earp


Deity game for newbies.

1.29f
Civ: Japan

Opponents:
Americans
French Joan
Indians
English
Iroquois
Persians

Standard Map, 40% Land, Continents
Random Otherwise

NO EXPLOITS!

24 hours to say "Got it!", 72 hours to play. Discussion encouraged. 10 turns at first, then 5 turns when we get to AD.

Side bets as to how quick we'll lose are allowed except by the players.

I'll post three starting positions. Whichever gets the most votes wins.

Let's roll.

 

[ChrTh]

Here's Start 1:

 

[ChrTh]

Here's Start 2:

 

[ChrTh]

And Here's Start 3:

 

[ChrTh]

Note: Nonplayers are allowed to give advice as to starting position, but they don't get a vote

 

[Sullla]

#3 is a good starting position, #1 is a pretty average one, and #2 is a rather difficult one. If you can't get irrigation to #2 then it's a VERY difficult one. Choose which one to pick based on how difficult you want the game to be.

And no, I'm not jumping into this game, I'm busy enough as it is.

 

[Earp]

I like #2.

#1 Nice river location with two bonus grasslands, but no bonus resources/luxuries are visible. All of the river tiles will give us extra income. Atleast 5 mountains in the first 21 squares.

#2 Does the water taste fresh or salty? I like this position even if it's salty.
Bonus hut as soon as we found our city.
Three bonus grasslands and five bonus resources/luxuries are visible.
City location on the hill is good for defense.
Immediate access to wines to help keep citizens content and increase income.
Extra wines to trade with our friends down the road.
Don't overlook the +1 food given by wines.
Desert and tundra tiles may limit this city after it gets to size 12+, but I think it has the potential to give us a good start.

#3 River location
Bonus hut as soon as we found our city.
Not as many tiles visible as #1 or #2 because of the flatness of the location.
Lots of plains and one bonus grassland. One wheat resource that could be irrigated immediately.

If you haven't read it yet, I've found Cracker's article on Opening Play Sequences to greatly improve my initial decisions. I think it is a must read. It gives great tips on evaluating starting positions. I think he also wrote an article on the Japanese that I want to read.

 

[Quokka]

Start 1
Not bad. Its all green and on a river. There are 2 BG's on rivers that you know of. The unseen tiles in your 21 look to be grassland to the S,SW and the 3 to the NE. The two to the SE look like hills. This site will have awesome production potential after despotism.
A worker move E onto the hills would reveal a lot of territory and possible bonus tiles, but if it shows nothing then its 3 wasted turns(onto the hill and 2 to either BG)
A down side is 5 mountians in the 21. This is not too bad as by the time you would need to use them, irrigated & RRed grassland would make that possible. Also a good chance for Iron in all those hills and mountains.
There are plains to the west and the mountains run south out of shot. 3 tiles SW looks like a Forest/Plains on the river so you can get irrigation out to the plains, but the mountains also look to extend west and that might mean there is a large range to the NW of Kyoto and you don't want that in your inner ring.

Start 2
With that much desert and Tundra in the start this is a no go even with the wines. The tundra also extends to the south of the start so its likely that much of the surrounds is also tundra. It's your first game at Deity, no need to imitate Aeson yet.

Start 3
Wheat, BG and a goodie hut all on a river start. Plains are quicker to develop than grassland(irrigation vs mining) and there are some forests around for chops. Its also the most equatorial start so there is likely to be no tundra, but there is some desert.
A worker move onto the Wheat is first up giving 2 possible Settler moves if warranted, both still on the river. North if the worker uncovered Cows N,NE or east if Cows E,NE. East would also remove the desert from the 21 while keeping the BG.
That may be coastline to the south, so a inner ring city could be on the coast for a Harbor trade connection.

Settler moves on Deity, especially on smaller maps should only be done if there is a distinct advantage to the new site. A small advantage is going to be eaten by the delayed start.
Of the 3 possibilities, 1 & 3 are your best bets with 3 a little better because of the guaranteed food bonus from the Wheat. Start 2 would offer a great capital if that is a fresh water lake but the surrounds spell doom for your civ.

 

[Matt_G]

I agree with Sullla and Quokka. I know my 'vote' doesn't mean squat but here it is anyways.

1. Start #3
2. Start #1
Start #2, don't even think about it. I bet you won't get irrigation there for 4000 years.
That river is worthless, the tundra cuts it off.

One other note about start 3. Look due north of the wheat. That looks like desert peeking out from under the fog. Desert with a river running through it means Floodplains.

 

[mad-bax]

Hi Guys,

This is just to reassure you that I'm still around. I like start 3 personally and hope we don't get barbs from the hut.

Good luck everyone.

 

[a space oddity]

I've heard rumors there will be no barbs from the hut as long as you don't have any military units.

I have very limited time right now (I'm at work) so I just a first impression:

1. Lots of river tiles, good for money, mountain ridge will slow down enemy units from the north but will block our own expansion, we should gamble on space to be had in the south.

2. Very dry start, the river is in the wrong place. We'll have lux soon. If we can't move the bonud tiles will only be available when our capital grows.

3. Looks nice, but is not really on the river yet, so no free aquaduct if we settle where we stand. Still we'ld have the wheat from the start. Does anyone know whether we get the 10 shields from the forest when we settle there?

 

[mad-bax]

Space: Start 3 is on the river I think. Rivers run from corner to corner on a tile, so the corner we can see makes the river available to 4 tiles including the one we start on. GOTM 18 Celts had the same situation except with a lake, and you could settle on the spot and get to POP 7 without aqueduct.

We don't get the shields for settling on the forrest. If it were my call I'd road then irrigate the wheat, and then road and mine the BG unless something cool appears in the meantime.

I'm glad we won't get barbs from the hut, thanks for the info!

I still like start 3 the best.

 

[ChrTh]

I'm going to check a couple things when I get home:
Whether #2 is on a lake or sea
If #3 touches the river

Regarding #2, the capital will expand in 10 turns, so we'll get the bonus tiles almost immediately. One of the biggest problems in Deity is keeping your cities happy, so a luxury to start isn't too shabby.

 

[Earp]

I don' have a problem with start #3. The plains+wheat will give us a +3 food tile immediately after we irrigate. The unknown tiles may provide us with a good surprise. I'm not sure that being in the middle of the map is such a good thing.

On start #2, I guess the tundra underneath the forest cuts off the river. As other more wise posters have noted, if the lake/sea water is indeed salty, it will be a long time before we can irrigate and get any +3 food tiles in our capital. That would probably spell our doom.

If the water is salty, I change my vote to #3. If the water is fresh, I still vote for #2.

 

[Sirp]

If I was playing and $1000 was riding on the game, I'd pick #3 in a flash. Tick fresh water. Tick bonus food tile. The two most critical aspects of any start.

And no, you can't get barbarians out of a hut if you don't have any military units, or indeed, if you found a city right next to it.

-Sirp.

 

[infoman]

Infoman-san votes for #3 first. Growth will be critical and we need evey extra help we can get. If the water in #2 is fresh that will be an option also. There was an RBE game IIRC that started out cold & dry and they did not have an easy time. #1 has too many mountains in the 21 square radius for my liking.

It looks like it is time get it on.

Tora! Tora! Tora!

 

[Darkness]

I agree with Sirp on all counts.

#3 is definately the best start....

 

[inudog]

I also agree with Sirp.

#3 is definately the best start....

 

[SHard]

My vote goes to site #3 because of the fresh water and the wheat. I would probably pick site #1 ahead of site #2 also. Site #2 looks to be bad from the point of view of the civilisation as a whole. OK, we get a semi-decent capital if that is freshwater, but where next? North to the tundra? South to the desert?

Looking forward to this

 

[infoman]

Can you move me down the player list to the bottom. I am going out of town Friday and will not have internet access (family trip)?
I do not want to be skipped on the first round of turns.

Thanks in advance.


Banzai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!