CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

Excellent turn! We definitely need to get Tech going, though. I would still go with grabbing those next three cities and then make peace. Grab as much Tech as you can.

Our troops/city ratio is too low for my liking; we've overextended a tad, I feel. After peace, we should build up our troops in addition to building infrastructure.

We'll have three choices for our next war:
1) Mop-up against America and then Western India
2) Eastern India
3) Iroquois (will be easier to take than India until Tanks/Cavalry?)

I'm glad India went to war with Persia; it eliminates those annoying Persian cities on our continent (for now, anyway).

Well, not to Jinx us, but we're not looking too shabby, peeps...we might win this thing :eek: :thumbsup:

ChrTh
Space Oddity
Mad-Bax
SHard << Just Played
Wanderer << UP
Earp << On Deck
 
Good job SHard. :goodjob: It looks like the war may be over by the time Wanderer finishes his turns. :( I was hoping to be able to :hammer: Abe.
 
Hey all.

Got this SAVE.

I'll load up, and then likely post a few questions, since I don't want to xxx things up right now.

Are we still on 10 turns as SHard did, at the moment, or 5 ?
 
pre turn:

Phew - some issues getting Civ to start, but here we are. Hmmm Look around the world:

MM Miami,boston, seattle. My recall reading of the Flip thread said that Unhappy people add to chance of flipping.

Review tech situation. I change tax man in Osaka to Scientist, Invetion goes from --- to 40 turns. How long has it been sitting idling ? Change tax to Sci costs us 1 gpt.

Tech review

WE are behind:
India : Invention (can get for 623 G); Printing press (336 G); banking (876G); astronomy (792G)
England : Invention ; Printing press ; banking ; astronomy - and they want more than india.
Persia : Invention ; Printing press ; banking ; astronomy - and they want more than india.
Iroquais : Invention ; Printing press ; astronomy - and they want more than india.

I can buy banking from India, then sell it to the IroQuais, try and get invetion and something ?

I can get Invention, printing press, 129 g and 3 gpt from Abe for peace.
Alternatively, I can get 1 small city (Lyons,Rouen or Philadelphia )

Should I press on to war or not ? As ChrTh noted, our cities are weakly defended. I see maybe 13 or so samurai on the Western front, altho most need healing.

Should I :

AMERICAN WAR :

(a) push the war regardless
(b) push to chrth's "green-line" - that would seems to mean taking 3 more cities = new york, philly and new orleans
(c) sue for peace now. If so, which way, tech of a city ?

TRADE :

Try and catch up by getting banking and leveraging it against the Iroquais for some tech ? If so, also consider the war answer- we might be affecting the tech we get there.

Bear In Mind - I've just fallen WAY behind in an emperor game where I was level with tech at the beginning of the middle age, and had a nice big standing army, plenty money. Before I knew it, I was at least 6 tech's behind, trying to go the min-sci route, and no-one wanted to trade towards the later middle ages. When I got metallurgy, at least 4 civ's had nationalism 9the other 2 I had destroyed), so my knight army was getting massacred by riflemen when I ended up in a war...

based on feedback, I'll start playing tomorrow.
 
I think we should push atleast to Chrth's green line and then sue for techs for peace.

I would also do the two for one tech deal. Abe has muskets which means he has Gunpowder. We can trade for Invention and get Gunpowder from him. We should try to get as many Techs out of Abe as possible and do not want to purchase techs we can get from him.
 
I would recommend the following:
Push to the Green Line
Get Invention from India (after the push is done--or if we get a Leader (rush Leo's))
Make Peace with Abe; get everything in Tech that you can (Gunpowder priority) and if you can get cities, sure, just make sure they're on our border.
 
Shard: Fantanstic job. Well done. I too recommend we press on with the war for a while. If we can get another 3 cities we will be in excellent shape.
 
@SHard: :band: Have one on us :beer: Just out of curiosity: how long did your turns take?

@Wanderer: I too think we should try to push on. As long as we don't come too near the Indian border it's ok to strech a bit. But remember: it is your turn so if you feel it is not worth the risk you're the one to decide... We all are :king: for 10 turns. :)
 
Ok - I'm going to have to rest a turn or 2 to get units up to full, then I'll try and take 3 cities I mentioned : new york, philly and new orleans.

If that works, I will buy invention from India, then I'll sue for peace and get most techs possible, and then try to optimize our research. I really feel , maybe because of my recent emperor experience, that we could be WAY behind in tech.

Are we trying to build a massive cash reserve for an upgrade to Cavalry ? If not, then I say we should buy our way up the tech tree, and try to get our research arm going.

Does anyone yet have a clear idea as to how they foresee us winning this game? Are we going for Conquest/domination ? I can't see us getting either cultural win, and I think we are so far behind on tech that space race might not be possible. Apparently, diplomacy is very difficult at this level ?

If so, when do we see ourselves going on this mass conquest ? Cavalry, before everyone get rifle/infantry , or tanks before everyone get Mech Inf ?

Other thoughts?
 
I think Domination will be how we end up winning; we'll probably take out Iroq with Cavalry, then India with Tanks, then the rest with Modern Armor (since Domination is enabled, we'll win that way before Conquest, unless we raze as we go)
 
Space: Turns took around 2 hours, maybe only 1.5, but they were draining :).

We may be overstretching slightly to predict a domination win, but then again, maybe not. I would have thought we should vaguely aim in the long-term to get ToE and then try and hold a tech lead/tech parity from then. When we make peace with America, I wouldn't advise doing any of our own research at anything above 40, unless there is a tech we can be confident of beating the AI to. Do samauri upgrade to cavalry? My instincts say yes. In which case, if we are planning to invade someone with cavalry we will want a substantial force available for upgrade and a substantial force means a substantial treasury. My general aim from here would be min. sci (one lone scientist, which I should have initiated during my turn - my apologies) and buying our way level with clever trades and brokers to try and get techs 2 for 1 or at an even better ratio. Try to snag ToE with a well-timed palace pre-build elsewhere and in and amongst this general plan possibly the odd max sci. gamble to try and get monopoly on a low-priority AI tech such as medicine if it looks possible (probably won't be).

Somewhere amongst this plan we need to slide our military plans. I will leave these up to other members of the team as I am certainly a builder not a fighter, but I will say that if samauri do upgrade to cavalry, it would be a shame not to upgrade and use them for an invasion at some point. Particularly if we are shooting for domination it would be good to have a fair amount of land under our control prior to tanks. The AI may well be quick to space race after tanks and so the less work we have to do in the late-industrial, early-modern period the better.

Good luck Wanderer
 
GUYS - I NEED INPUT HERE :

this is the situation:

IBT : America and Persia sign alliance against India. Hope Persia don't sign against us! America declare war on India - talk about signing a deth warrant.

turn 6 (410 ad)

Kyoto builds Sam, start sam (5).
order resotes, and some cities expand culture.

Attack New Orleans: Vet loses 2 hp, kills spear and captures New Orleans. That will move their capital further away, which SHOULD help reduce flips.

Capital jumps to Rhiens - about 3 squares away - sigh.
9 injured sams start to heal in New orleans, 6 healthy Sam's move towards Rhiems - they can attack next turn.

I look to see if I can get India to pay us to continue war against America - they won't. they are gracious at the moment, though.

America will give us Invetion, Printing press, Banking and Astronomy for peace and 360 gold.This is tough. I know if we push them too far, they will simply refuse anything (go down swinging), but do we really want the indians to take all their cities ?

India will sell us invention for 619 G.

I am seriously thinking of buying invention from India, then going for peace with America - I should be able to squeeze for gunpwder and the other 3 for a price ...

GUYS - I am half-way, BUT I want your input - do we try and get our tech now, or risk not getting it by helping wipe them oout. I knwo ( via great wonder's being built) that we are AT LEAST 9 tech's behind, but a tade a peace now could help us catch 5 of those.
 
I will check back tomorrow and finish up -I;ve go to be at work in 6 hours...
 
I would buy Invention and get all the Techs from Abe this turn...and letting India (hopefully) finish them off.

Keep an eye on India though...don't leave any of our border cities vulnerable.
 
Do we really want to let India finish off Abe? What is the advantage to that? I think India will roll over Abe very easily w/o losing many units and make our task of defeating India in the future more difficult.

Can you buy Invention from India for gpt . This will force Ghandi to lose gpt if he decides to attack us in the next 20 turns.

Personally, I am not worried about Ghandi's elephants. They have the same stats as knights, but do not require resources. I think our Samurai are more than match for elephant riding Indians. I am concerned about how close Ghandi is to discovering cavalry.

I would take NO, Philly, and New York before giving Abe peace. If you captured those three cities, I would sign the peace treaty. I do not think Abe will refuse peace if he still has atleast seven cities.
 
We don't have the manpower to finish off Abe, so the advantage of India doing it for us is that we get the best of both worlds: Techs/Cities for Peace, and the elimination of flips, rather than just one or the other. With a double-core of productive cities, we should be able to easily ramp up for war with either India or Iroquois.

The other reason not to take on India now is because they're fighting Persia, who is the Big Bad in this game. Let 'em fight. It's Win-Win for us the longer those two go at it.
 
Thanks for the explanation ChrTh. :thumbsup: I now understand why India taking out Abe is a good thing. Not having to fight Abe again will also eliminate the WW we would experience in our former American cities.

After we sign the peace treaty, I guess we should concentrate on building workers and infrastructure and improving our core.

I think this is going much better than any of us expected.
 
My opinion. I would buy invention for gpt now. Then I would see if America has gunpowder. AFAIK America will sign a peace deal whilst it has at least one city (above pop 6). So, I would continue the war for a while yet, at least to the end of Wanderers turn, then take the techs.

There is no guarantee that India will finish off Abe. Often the AI will leave 1 city. In other words it will do what we are doing and strike a deal for peace. In this case it is unlikely that Abe is more advanced than Gandhi, but there is that risk.

India could turn out to be a strong Ally. I would not contemplate a war with them any time soon. Unless we could absolutely kill them the risk is that we would have a discontented neighbour for the rest of the game. This would hamper us building the improvemements necessary to keep up in tech and keep the population happy as we would have to keep our defenses up and continually upgraded forever.

Personally I am torn between siding with Gandhi against Persia, or starting a war with England before they get Cavalry. I tend to favour the second. I would gradually build a few marketplaces and libraries, but keep up in tech through extortion.

So now I would change production in coastal cities to galleys. Once we have made 6 galleys we can upgrade them when we get astronomy, and get the Sams over to England. The window will be short b4 we face Cavalry, but if we are careful and pillage English Saltpetre we should be OK.

This will now either be a diplo or domination win. Space race is still a pooibility, but less likely then diplo as we can lose the tech race to fission but still win the vote by being the second most powerful CIV. Either way getting to the domination limit will be key. Stopping for a rest now is not a good idea, I know this from bitter experience.

[EDIT] Of course America has gunpowder, they have (or had) muskets.:blush:
 
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