CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

@Wanderer: I sympathize (sp?). I think the decision when to start and when to stop wars the single most difficult thing in playing Civ. As a builder I tend to start too late and finish too soon. So I feel that I'm not really the person to advise you in this. I would make peace and get the techs, but first try if you can get Rheims. The unit you can see in there is the strongest one in that city. Is it musket or pike? You *do* need to have enough units to defend our new towns. In GOTM20 the Zulu attacked me after we finished killing the Celts. Claiming all of my new cities :(. So beware. (on a side note - I went on to win the game :D )

Space
 
I have downloaded the save, and had a look. I don't think Abe can build muskets anymore. Also he is in democracy, so war weariness is going to crucify him. I really do think we should press ahead with this war and stop when Abe has 4 or 5 cities left. I also think that the other Civs are miles ahead in tech. This means that unless we get caught up we will be late to cavalry. At this point I would personally send all the Samurai in, including those that are garrisoning newly captured cities. Maybe send a couple of Injured sams to replace them. I would also buy invention and gunpowder now if we can afford it. This game is not for the faint hearted.

What will india give us for an alliance against the persians?
Can we drag the English into war against the Persians? They build lots of boats.

I know I sound like a gung ho warmonger, but territory is all, and we aint got much good territory.

Go get 'em Wanderer.
 
Originally posted by mad-bax

There is no guarantee that India will finish off Abe. Often the AI will leave 1 city.
Click to expand...

Not on this level, I've noticed. France was :hammer: ... :cry: Poor Joan! :cry:

What it comes down to is, can India take all of Abe's cities before the opportunity is there to make peace? I think he can. That Gandhi is one heartless bastard.... :D

Originally posted by mad-bax

What will india give us for an alliance against the persians?
Can we drag the English into war against the Persians? They build lots of boats.
Click to expand...

Why would we want to get in a fight with Persia at this time? India and Persia are our two nemeses in this game, with Persia definitely being the Big Bad. Let them fight each other; if Persia comes after us, that's less stuff they can send at India (and the AI always finds a way to attack you at this level).

We also don't want England to get into a war with Persia yet, mostly because I think England will lose, thus making Persia stronger. We want England to get into war with Persia after we've taken the Iroqi and rearmed...the idea is as follows:

We own the western part of the continent (former Iroqi homeland). England fights Persia...either Persia whomps them, or England whomps the other. In either case, we'll be well-positioned to go after one (if not both, if they've fought long and hard) and clean up the leftover scraps. Granted, it'll be hard to cause it to happen, but at this point, we want to keep England a strong counterweight to Persia.
 
Originally posted by ChrTh

We also don't want England to get into a war with Persia yet, mostly because I think England will lose, thus making Persia stronger.
Click to expand...

I noticed the AI is *very* bad at war on an other continent. So even though Persia is much stronger they will never win. The AI just doesn't know how to conquer another continent.

I agree on your idea though, about taking fold of the Iroq cities and let the Persians to weaken the English or vice versa.
 
Originally posted by a space oddity


I noticed the AI is *very* bad at war on an other continent. So even though Persia is much stronger they will never win. The AI just doesn't know how to conquer another continent.
Click to expand...

Normally I'd agree, but there's almost no space between the two continents--I'm pretty sure you could load, drop off troops and return home in 1 turn. I suspect the AI may be able to handle that, but to be honest, I've never seen the AI in that sort of situation before.

In addition, to get Domination, we'll have to take out England at some point...I'd rather keep all the cities on that continent out of Persian hands, so when we do fight them, it'll be for the win (so we can blitzkrieg, just worrying about conquering cities)
 
Originally posted by ChrTh


Normally I'd agree, but there's almost no space between the two continents--I'm pretty sure you could load, drop off troops and return home in 1 turn. I suspect the AI may be able to handle that (...)
Click to expand...

It would make an interesting test game. We could take the current save (when we're finished) and see whether they could if we let them.

Edit: I agree on trying to get the cities of the English rather than Persia. If it's the English we really hurt them each time we manage to capture one.
 
just got home - it is 1:30 am. I know it is only 4 turns, but I want to concentrate on them. So I will post it sometime tomorrow - probably in 24 hours from now - I think I should still make the 48 hour rule ...

CiaO
 
you don't want me to screw up ... ooops!

But seriously, I'll post in a few hours.
 
PART 2

We have Extra Incense:
England will give wines + 16
persia will give WM + 48 + 10gpt
Iro will give WM + 11g
No trade route with India.

Trade with PERSIA.
I want to hold of with England until I can see what India will offer.

End turn

IBT : Persia demand 100 G and TM. We cave. They go from cautious to polite. Nice to have Polite bullies!!

Turn 7 (420 ad)

Attack Rhiems:
ELITE kills Musketeer ; Vet kills pikeman ; Elite kills Pike ; Elite kills longbowman, captures Rhiems.

move troops to xxx.

End turn 7

IBT : longbow approaches Rhiems

Turn 8 (430 ad)

Dark Blue builds Sam- set to build sam (6)
Dark Chocolate builds sam, set to build Sam (8)
EDo builds Sam, set to build Sam (7)

Vet kills musketeer; vet dies against Pike; Elite kills Pike, captures BUFFALO.

Trade Invention with India for 617.
Trade Gunpowder with india for 688.

end Turn 8

IBT : nothing

Turn 9

Review what we can get from america - then decide to push the war a bit more (for MAD's sake *grin*)

Push to Memphis, and capture it. Lose 1 sam

Troops near Orleans.

End turn 9

IBT : nothing

Turn 10 (450 ad)

Capture Orleans, attack Lyons - lose 1 sam, other wounded. Killed 1 musketeer, and defender is vet pike - he has 3 bars left.

Review what we can get :

FOR PEACE and 150 G, America will give:
2 workers
World Map
Banking
Astronomy
Printing Press
Chemistry.

our options :
4 tech for 95 GP
4 tech's, 2 worker for 150 G.
4 tech's, 2 worker for 205 G.

They only have 4 cities left. If we go much longer, we risk not getting this haul, probably for 2 or 3 cities, none of which have any resources . I decide to take the deal - I hope this is acceptable to all.

We Have Chem, Iro have Economics and Navigation. They will trade Eco and Nav for Chem + 301G (I could use lux's, but then we are in 20 turn deals that we night not want to keep). I ACCEPT. I know we may war against iro soon, but we will be mass upgrading troops - they have no cash, and no-one seems to be trading down. We need these tech to be able to get to the next era and riflemen.Persia and England and India likely have these already ( from the hats, I reckon they are in next era.).

I trade Silks to Persia for WM, 106 g and +14 gpt.

FOR THE NEXT PLAYER:

I can get 80 G and 12 gpt from england - I will leave that so that the next player can decide if they want to get Metalurgy from england or India (both will mena 20 turn deals).
India want 575 g + 28 gpt for Metallurgy. I leave that to someone else to decide upon.

Everyone else have 3 tech we don't have:
Democracy
Physics
Metallurgy

NOTE : current tech is democracy - change to metalurgy on next turn


save game

450ad_pic.JPG
 
Good job! :goodjob: :thumbsup:

Ok, Earp is next, I'm on deck. Here's the deal:

FILL UP THAT SPACE. Settlers, Temple expansions, something...I don't want India plopping down within our borders.
 
3 Things to do for now:
Catch up in Techs (buy 'em)
Build up infrastructure
Build up Military

Keep an eye on our Iroqi target...once we get an 'Average' Military compared to them (or maybe India?), we should get ready to :hammer:

You know, it may be possible to win this via Space Race...
 
lurker's comment:

Oh Boy! Those yankees are not happy with that war. I see those riots!

Maybe now that you have made peace they will be happy.
 
We're in good shape thanks to everyone's good warfare! Good timing of peace, Mad should be happy with the extra cities ;). Does anyone know how long the war is going between India and America? I it's relatively short India will take those last 4, I'm afraid. Oh well, that should satisfy those former American citizens :crazyeye: .
 
Wanderer: you are the Daddy!

Originally posted by ChrTh


Keep an eye on our Iroqi target...once we get an 'Average' Military compared to them (or maybe India?), we should get ready to :hammer:
Click to expand...

We are already at that point. The English have an average military compared to us also. The trade advisor implies that noone has military tradition yet. This is why I want to go against England.

A) They're bigger, so we have more land to gain.
B) They have techs that we don't, and can extort.
C) They are on the same landmass as a weak civ. So a continuation of the war against the Iroquois would be straightforward.
D) They are the only Civ not currently at war. So they are in a position to build their way to an unnassailable lead.

If we buy metalurgy we can sell it to the Iroqs for all their gold and spices. Then we would have cash and be maybe 15 turns from Cavalry. In that time we should be able to build 5 Caravels (and more if we rush them), and there would only be 5 turns left on the Iroq deal.

5 turn war against England to hamstring them and get their techs, then turn on the Iroqs. Then take the remaining american cities and then take the remaining English Cities, leaving us with only 2 Civs to worry about. Keeping up with tech would then be easy, and we can choose our victory condition. All this can be done in around 45-50 turns.

Again this is only my opinion, and I have no problem agreeing to whatever the consencus is.

On another note we need to do some housekeeping.
The gems are not connected yet, and nor is the salpetre.
All the newly captured cities need temples now. Some of them are already out of resistance without a temple. They will flip.
Kyoto and Osaka need marketplaces.

It's amazing how we have turned this game around. You have to admit it was a dodgy start. It's a pity Sirp seems to have lost interest. I think he would be quite surprised.
 
mad-bax, my only concern is that if we get into War with England, we may be vulnerable to an Indian attack
 
ChrTh

Yes we would, as we would if we attack the Iroq. That's why we buy techs from them (India) at gpt. Also they are already at war with Persia and america. Those two facts combined with their polite attitude means the risk is small. If you're that worried we could always renegotiate peace with them. It would cost us a little, but it would be another reason for the Indians not to attack.
 
Hi guys,

@ mad - there are about 10 workers working on the clearing and connecting of toyko to the rest of the japanese empire. Tokyo has the gems connected. I made a mistake, and 1 worker went north of the gems - that was an error, he should come back south. There is only 1 square that needs to be DE-Jungled, then roaded, to connect gems.

we have 21 slaves and 14 workers. we only have 62 unit (26 sam ,10 pike, 1 sword, 1 spear, 7 war,1 settler and 2 catapults) So our ratio of workers to others is good. I was worried about knights counter-attacks sinec I saw the 3 try to counter earlier, but we should definitely use the settler, and get other.

We have 31 cities, but only 48 military units. We need to keep getting units for (a) defense in case india get's uppity, and (b) sam for cavalry conversion for further wars.

Salpetre is connected near San Franciso.

********


I agree - we ned to stablise the two indian front's from a culture and landa possession point of view. We can expect Inida to do in the last 4 Amer cities soon I hope - they don't seem to have been nearly as active in their war as I expected !
 
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