[RD] Cultural Appropriation: The Solution?
- Thread starter Synobun
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In the case of the food/drink products, it is there so that other companies (eg from other nations) cannot make use of a known brand so as to present their own, different product, using the brand name/type. Eg of a kind of cheese or wine.
Lexicus
Deity
So, did you just not read the part of the post where Owen specifically explains that in many cases this is about preserving production in a specific region and has nothing whatever to do with quality?
sophie
Break My Heart
If it were merely about branding, then you wouldn't see things like Parmiggiano-Reggiano or San Marzano tomatoes placing such astringent and unprofitable restrictions on production technique. It's not just "Parmiggiano-Reggiano has to come from the states of Parma and Reggio-Emilia" it's that the cheese has to use certain kinds of cows and be aged in certain kinds of sheds and the curds and whey have to be separated using certain kinds of traditional techniques.
And again, you clearly haven't been at a party in America with French visitors looking on in horror when an American has the audacity to offer them some "Champagne" - produced and bottled in Napa. This stuff really is a bigger deal to Europeans than you think.
Hell, just look at the way Europeans react to even the suggestion that American Football is football.
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^The reason (as well as the legal argument) for protecting such brands in the Eu is about profit, primarily of select companies, and (in theory) of regions tied to the product. Yet the latter isn't set in stone for the majority of the products; eg various types of drink or food are produced in a number of regions of the same country. The deciding factor is brand relative fame. Eg with feta, or scottish whisky, or various other such products, it would create problematic antagonism to allow foreign state companies to brand their own products using the same name.
That said, some products just come from the one region. The best example being the Parian marble. You just can't extract it from any other place. With food stuff it is more debatable, but there are underlying economic factors to allow for the brand safeguarding.
In virtually no case is this about "protecting local culture", unless one is being pedantic. Virtually no one identifies culture with a type of drink or food, at least to such a degree that would make them reasonably care due to that. But economically there are serious reasons to protect the brands.
That said, some products just come from the one region. The best example being the Parian marble. You just can't extract it from any other place. With food stuff it is more debatable, but there are underlying economic factors to allow for the brand safeguarding.
In virtually no case is this about "protecting local culture", unless one is being pedantic. Virtually no one identifies culture with a type of drink or food, at least to such a degree that would make them reasonably care due to that. But economically there are serious reasons to protect the brands.
Lexicus
Deity
Tell my Kyr, ever been to an Indian reservation? Do you think there might be "economic reasons" to ensure that the wealth generated from marketing Native-themed fashion items goes to actual Native Americans and not to thieving white devils?
Depends on whether they are brands, though; i mean a costume of a native american cloth isn't really supposed to be presented as the original native american product. With branded products this is exactly the expectation. At any rate, i am definitely not against keeping native american brands when they do exist; i don't think this is what the thread was about, though.
Lexicus
Deity
Why do you think hardly any Native American brands exist? Native Americans just don't have good business sense for some reason?
I don't? Re-read my sentence. I said i am not against safeguarding said brands, when they do exist. (ie in the case of a mass produced costume, it isn't something tied to a brand, was the argument). This wasn't some claim they do not exist at all
Lexicus
Deity
I don't? Re-read my sentence. I said i am not against safeguarding said brands, when they do exist. (ie in the case of a mass produced costume, it isn't something tied to a brand, was the argument). This wasn't some claim they do not exist at all
Right, I get that, but I'm saying there aren't going to be many such brands out there. Protecting the existing brands, therefore, is a position that sounds good without actually accomplishing much.
Lol, ok. Nice that i accused you of reading my post in a hostile manner that altered the claim, when it turns out it was i who did just that ^_^
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Owen mentioned Scotch whisky, like, three times.
I mentioned quality AND economics. You may come across the occasional European acting offended in an exaggerated way by an inauthentic champagne or something but it’s not taken as an act of oppression.
Besides that, with Native American art it’s usually not so specific a that. Like people are offended by all headdresses even when obviously inauthentic, like even in a child’s costume. Not an imitation of a particular headdress.
And we’re not even limited to Native American customs here but some people get offended by white people wearing saris and Chinese dresses.
Besides that, with Native American art it’s usually not so specific a that. Like people are offended by all headdresses even when obviously inauthentic, like even in a child’s costume. Not an imitation of a particular headdress.
And we’re not even limited to Native American customs here but some people get offended by white people wearing saris and Chinese dresses.
It still isn't Haggis.
Besides, it's not like feta cheese is about culture; it is about local companies being able to secure the brand so as to sell more in the Eu. I suppose it's basically the same with whiskey
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Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
I mean, if you don't think that Scotch has some significance in Scottish culture and national identity, then I really don't think you understand Scotland.Besides, it's not like feta cheese is about culture; it is about local companies being able to secure the brand so as to sell more in the Eu. I suppose its basically the same with whiskey
sophie
Break My Heart
It still isn't Haggis.
Besides, it's not like feta cheese is about culture; it is about local companies being able to secure the brand so as to sell more in the Eu. I suppose its basically the same with whiskey
Again, if it were merely about branding, the review board wouldn't also mandate specific regulations about maintaining traditional production techniques. They'd simply say "nothing made outside of Greece may call itself Feta." But it's rather: "nothing made outside of Greece may call itself Feta and no cheese made in Greece which doesn't follow specific traditional techniques and practices is allowed to call itself Feta."
And again, if you consult EU deliberations of whether or not to afford Greek Feta PDO status, the arguments hinge entirely on the fact that Feta is a cheese which has been produced traditionally (and regulated on the basis of maintenance of tradition) in Greece for far longer than can be said of, e.g. Denmark which was producing a knock-off at the time. To reiterate: the legal argument for why Greece and Greece alone should get to make Feta is because Feta is a traditionally and especially Greek cultural product.
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
Oho, do I get to see the proud Greek argue for the right of others to make knockoffs of genuine Greek products? This thread just got entertaining.
On a related note, someone brought up a comparison to military medals. I looked up the Native American headdress concept, and it's apparently called a "war bonnet". Wearing these without tribal recognition is literally stolen valor. Or like me donning a Presidential Medal of Freedom because it looks cool. It's on a whole other level than wearing saris or qipaos.
That's what official protections should help with, too. To properly define what needs to be recognized as culturally significant. And it is the members of the culture who should decide that.
On a related note, someone brought up a comparison to military medals. I looked up the Native American headdress concept, and it's apparently called a "war bonnet". Wearing these without tribal recognition is literally stolen valor. Or like me donning a Presidential Medal of Freedom because it looks cool. It's on a whole other level than wearing saris or qipaos.
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Well, it would be more of a caricature to argue that greek culture is about a cheese, surely
Furthermore, i like greek high culture; stuff like important ancient works, in the same way i like other countries' high culture. That isn't the same with current greek "culture". As everywhere else, the majority of the population has subcultures, which tend to be only vaguely tied to any local high culture.
@Traitorfish , likewise, R.L.Stevenson is more like scottish/scotch culture, than a whiskey, surely.
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
In the same vein, culture is more than just paintings and sculptures. And I am still wondering about your opposition to a system that actually puts money in Greek hands rather than the obverse. An EU initiative that strengthens Greek enterprises, supported by the Germans, of all things.
