This is an awesome update, thanks for the stability increase especially! It was much needed for the AI.
Current (SVN) development discussion thread
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
This is an awesome update, thanks for the stability increase especially! It was much needed for the AI.
The Diocletian
Fire Fly
For the new Turkish UP, does adopting Secularism allow you to draft from any city, or does it essentially obsolete the UP?
The Diocletian
Fire Fly
When did this happen?
With the current implementation, it works for every city that has a religion. Which might not be the most historical mechanism.
It should, I'll check.
Hello, Everyone!
If you like the movie the last samurai, then you maybe interested by this.
Yesterday when I was playing DoC alternate I came up some ideas.
1.Add a “rebellious force”. It functions like an independent nation, you can’t have diplomacy with it, when one of your cities has three or four unhappiness, or you just go through a revolution, or your stability just dropped, or you just discovered a technology like democracy or communism, it will show up near your capital and attack you just like a minor Seljuk in the game.
But them don’t attack other civs unless other big civ declare war on it (If it is not easy to add, is it possible to convert independent1 or independent2 slot into a rebellious force, And leave only one slot for independent nation? Or use the Celtic slot? )
And the name of that rebellious force can be dynamic.
For example: I use France and I discovered Democracy but I didn’t switch my civics to republic or universal suffrage, them a rebellious force called “Jacobin” appears near Paris. You can call this French revolution.
( And the rebellious force can only appear in a civ if a human control that civ, so to avoid problems for AI and enhance in-game fun for a human player)
2.The Last Samurai
Make some tech temporarily un-researchable for non-western civ.
Like China, Korea, Japan in 17th century can’t research rifle or replicable parts or Astronomy, they can only research scientific method to the most.
so to mimic the fall of the East and the rise of the west.
They can only achieve “westernization” to get those western tech..
Add a national wonder called “westernization” for non-western civs. The prerequisite are 1.has tech scientific method. 2. Has an ambassador with a European civ. (is prerequisite 2 necessary?)
It can be built in a city by a non-western civ if that civ is technically lagging behind European civ (can designate it as Germany or Britain) with 3 or 5 technology during 17th century.
The building cost is partly in proportion of the number of cities that eastern civ has. If that city has an embassy with western countries, the cost will be halved.
for example: “westernization”In Japan the cost will be much less and for China it will be much more.
My concept is the larger the civ, the less likely they will learn from others.
“westernization”can have different names for different civ. Like “Meiji restoration” for Japan.
When “westernization”is built, the effects are
I. Get free tech like rifle or replicable parts to let that civ catch up with the west.
II. And free units like riflemen and ironclad.
III. Unlock the inaccessible western tech, so they can research them.
IV. Stability drops,
V. Rebellious forces appears near the capital (if human) , mostly melee units. If you control Japan, you can use your new free riflemen to attack them, like in the movie the “The Last Samurai”.
VI. Likely to declare war on nearby no-western civ that didn’t built “westernization” yet.
So by this concept, if you don’t build embassy or don’t think scientific method is important, you should change your tactics when you play Japan.
Do you like those ideas?
If you like the movie the last samurai, then you maybe interested by this.
Yesterday when I was playing DoC alternate I came up some ideas.
1.Add a “rebellious force”. It functions like an independent nation, you can’t have diplomacy with it, when one of your cities has three or four unhappiness, or you just go through a revolution, or your stability just dropped, or you just discovered a technology like democracy or communism, it will show up near your capital and attack you just like a minor Seljuk in the game.
But them don’t attack other civs unless other big civ declare war on it (If it is not easy to add, is it possible to convert independent1 or independent2 slot into a rebellious force, And leave only one slot for independent nation? Or use the Celtic slot? )
And the name of that rebellious force can be dynamic.
For example: I use France and I discovered Democracy but I didn’t switch my civics to republic or universal suffrage, them a rebellious force called “Jacobin” appears near Paris. You can call this French revolution.
( And the rebellious force can only appear in a civ if a human control that civ, so to avoid problems for AI and enhance in-game fun for a human player)
2.The Last Samurai
Make some tech temporarily un-researchable for non-western civ.
Like China, Korea, Japan in 17th century can’t research rifle or replicable parts or Astronomy, they can only research scientific method to the most.
so to mimic the fall of the East and the rise of the west.
They can only achieve “westernization” to get those western tech..
Add a national wonder called “westernization” for non-western civs. The prerequisite are 1.has tech scientific method. 2. Has an ambassador with a European civ. (is prerequisite 2 necessary?)
It can be built in a city by a non-western civ if that civ is technically lagging behind European civ (can designate it as Germany or Britain) with 3 or 5 technology during 17th century.
The building cost is partly in proportion of the number of cities that eastern civ has. If that city has an embassy with western countries, the cost will be halved.
for example: “westernization”In Japan the cost will be much less and for China it will be much more.
My concept is the larger the civ, the less likely they will learn from others.
“westernization”can have different names for different civ. Like “Meiji restoration” for Japan.
When “westernization”is built, the effects are
I. Get free tech like rifle or replicable parts to let that civ catch up with the west.
II. And free units like riflemen and ironclad.
III. Unlock the inaccessible western tech, so they can research them.
IV. Stability drops,
V. Rebellious forces appears near the capital (if human) , mostly melee units. If you control Japan, you can use your new free riflemen to attack them, like in the movie the “The Last Samurai”.
VI. Likely to declare war on nearby no-western civ that didn’t built “westernization” yet.
So by this concept, if you don’t build embassy or don’t think scientific method is important, you should change your tactics when you play Japan.
Do you like those ideas?
Sanguivorant
Submitter
DEATH TO THE WEST!
In all seriousness, I don't think it's fair to punish civs just for not being a Western civ.
In all seriousness, I don't think it's fair to punish civs just for not being a Western civ.
It would be great to have specific rebel factions, but it doesn't really work with the mechanics of the game. Even if I used an extra slot for them, it raises the question what happens in case another civ experiences a rebellion at the same time.
I also don't think preventing civs from researching certain techs entirely is a good idea. It should be harder if appropriate, but not impossible. And the player should always have total freedom of action.
I also don't think preventing civs from researching certain techs entirely is a good idea. It should be harder if appropriate, but not impossible. And the player should always have total freedom of action.
billyleeback16
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2011
- Messages
- 77
I just finished a UHV as England (V/E) at your second-to-most recent SVN commit, a few notes/suggestions from that playthrough:
- I didn't realize that you readded the stability hit for razing cities and it really messed me up when I went raze-happy with my American conquerors which I usually do. I reloaded and altered my strategy and I have to say I like how it's currently implemented with a realistic cooldown.
- When my TC conquerors took Mumbai from the Muhgals, they collapsed and I got control over all of India. I wasn't expecting that.
- Speaking of TC conquerors, can you make it so that they can't spawn on jungle tiles? France got TC conquerors on me after I got India and they spawned in the elephant jungle tile 1NE of Madras and they stayed put only bombarding my defenses. I wasn't able to attack and get rid of them with my Redcoats.
- Most of the civs got very unstable as the game went on. I see you addressed that in the most recent SVN.
- I had a moderate foreign crisis around 1500 or so and had all deals cancelled with Portugal, Mali, and Japan. By 1800 all three of those civs still refused to talk to me. I suggest an overall reduction in the cooldown time for refusing to talk that comes from cancelling deals especially if that happens as a result of a crisis.
- I see you changed how granting independence works for colonies making my old England strategy of putting unprotected settlers on islands like the Falklands, Saint Helena, Madagascar, and New Zealand to trigger the UHV goal and dumping those colonies immediately afterwards far less effective. That's a good change along with the removal of the tech penalty tied to the number of cities.
- I teched a bit quicker than I usually do as England. I see that was another thing you just addressed.
- I get the feeling that the new Naval Dominance civic was made specifically for the England UHV and it was incredibly helpful. Having C1 Privateers right when they're built saved me a lot of the frustration I usually get when trying to meet the ship sinking goal. I didn't even have to bother with Trafalgar Square.
- I didn't realize that you readded the stability hit for razing cities and it really messed me up when I went raze-happy with my American conquerors which I usually do. I reloaded and altered my strategy and I have to say I like how it's currently implemented with a realistic cooldown.
- When my TC conquerors took Mumbai from the Muhgals, they collapsed and I got control over all of India. I wasn't expecting that.
- Speaking of TC conquerors, can you make it so that they can't spawn on jungle tiles? France got TC conquerors on me after I got India and they spawned in the elephant jungle tile 1NE of Madras and they stayed put only bombarding my defenses. I wasn't able to attack and get rid of them with my Redcoats.
- Most of the civs got very unstable as the game went on. I see you addressed that in the most recent SVN.
- I had a moderate foreign crisis around 1500 or so and had all deals cancelled with Portugal, Mali, and Japan. By 1800 all three of those civs still refused to talk to me. I suggest an overall reduction in the cooldown time for refusing to talk that comes from cancelling deals especially if that happens as a result of a crisis.
- I see you changed how granting independence works for colonies making my old England strategy of putting unprotected settlers on islands like the Falklands, Saint Helena, Madagascar, and New Zealand to trigger the UHV goal and dumping those colonies immediately afterwards far less effective. That's a good change along with the removal of the tech penalty tied to the number of cities.
- I teched a bit quicker than I usually do as England. I see that was another thing you just addressed.
- I get the feeling that the new Naval Dominance civic was made specifically for the England UHV and it was incredibly helpful. Having C1 Privateers right when they're built saved me a lot of the frustration I usually get when trying to meet the ship sinking goal. I didn't even have to bother with Trafalgar Square.
But I 'm afraid it is the way history goes. And that is the reason this site is in English.
Is it possible to make rebel factions like barbarians but with a different flag?
If we can divide the world civ as eastern and western, if a eastern civ first discover America, then all eastern civs can have a research rate increases. western civ lag behind and build "easternization" or "mordernisation"
and vice versa。
and it allowed the freedom for the players.
Akbarthegreat
Angel of Junil
Can conquerors still spawn in Cuba?
I haven't played a colonial civ in quite some time, could you explain?
That was the goal, good to hear that you could work with the new mechanic.
Are you playing with cheatmode and do you receive the debug popups related to stability? If so, it should have given you the reason why these cities flipped to you, which might be interesting to know (it could be that the free culture for cities affected by the TC conquerors gave you claims on everything in the neighborhood, which I agree is too strong).
Yeah.
I hope it helps. It's a bit worrying that this only started happening after I changed some of the calculations behind the categories, it could be that they don't work as intended.
Especially war stability could be a problem for the AI, and should maybe decay as the war goes on.
The effects of diplomatic crises are very annoying at the moment in my opinion, and there should be a better way to represent them. Forced cut contacts isn't really fun and makes the AI look erratic, especially if its happening to them and you can't tell the reason. I think refusal to talk and general reduced relations are enough for the lower tiers, and these effects can lead to canceled treaties on their own anyway (and AI crises should probably never affect their relations to the human player because it punishes the player more than the AI in most cases). I could still see severe crises releasing vassals or canceling defensive pacts, but that's about it.
Yep, England works differently now with the new tech penalty and finally it's actually worthwhile to even settle locations that only give smaller cities. But it also made it easier for them to tech. I don't know if the current settings brought more balance here, let's see how it plays out.
England was the inspiration of course, but in general it was meant to reflect civs that focused more on their navy than the strength of their land forces.
I'd rather reflect the reasons that lead to this development as far as the game allows, as opposed to enforcing it.
Different flags for units from the same civilization might be possible. I think Civilizations in Abundance actually did something like that.
Theoretically yes. But it should be possible to exclude islands from the list of viable spots.
I don't know what you were trying to say with the quotes at the beginning of the post, but he definitely didn't receive the cities because they were his war target (because only the AI benefits from that mechanism). But he could if he had a cultural majority there.
mrrandomplayer
Hopeless Situation Warrior
What wonders do the AI prioritize more now?
billyleeback16
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2011
- Messages
- 77
From what I can gather it depends on the historical status of the tile the city is on now:
Historical: City cannot be granted independence if settled.
Contested: City can be liberated to the core civ. If the core civ is dead, then liberating it will revive the dead civ.
Foreign Area: City can be liberated to Independents.
Foreign core area: City can be liberated to independents or core civ.
In my most recent game I settled the Falklands, Saint Helana, one of the canary islands, Madagascar, and 2 cities in New Zealand. Of them I was only able to liberate the Canaries and Madagascar because they were the only foreign cities.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Leoreth.
I just added extra artificial AI weights for wonders that have effects the AI isn't "aware of" (i.e. most things that I have added and wasn't available in the base game). Since most of these rely on Python scripting or are only dirtily implemented, the AI cannot take them into account when evaluating the value of a wonder and would not build them.
mrrandomplayer
Hopeless Situation Warrior
Oh, OK.
Akbarthegreat
Angel of Junil
I misread it and thought that it applied to any nearby cities of civs you are at war with
Nice. Especially the revivals.
