need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
Random note; I like how you use 'she' instead of 'he'.
Current v1.13 Development Discussion
- Thread starter Leoreth
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Chep
Emperor
after lots of discussions with quite a few people over how to write stuff I concluded for myself that I hate writing "his/her" all the time and all the other alternatives seemed even worse, so I'd just try to alternate between the male & female versions to show that they're completely interchangeable in that context and of no real meaning there.
so, but now back to civ:
What I wanted to say, was that - again, no idea how you want to change trade routes - yes trade routes could scale a bit more with distance (but imho thats not too much of an issue right now) but coupling any techcost-decrease with that will probably be very annoying - for you and the player both.
Imagine the English and Dutch having each 1 city in South Africa plus their core: they'd have trade routes to far away cities (like Cape Town to Amsterdam) while actually their cities are right next to each other (in both regions).
Having trade routes prioritize closer cities is also somewhat weird, because it does seem rather logical that longer trade routes especially to other continents and civs should bring more profit and thus be prefered and would still mean that the Congolese would have a high research bonus since the English and Dutch cities are right next to them.
Yeah, you will probably come up with something better than my "distance between capitols" but so far it seems a rather simple to understand (and probably to implement) idea with the only problem I see being the US.
so, but now back to civ:
What I wanted to say, was that - again, no idea how you want to change trade routes - yes trade routes could scale a bit more with distance (but imho thats not too much of an issue right now) but coupling any techcost-decrease with that will probably be very annoying - for you and the player both.
Imagine the English and Dutch having each 1 city in South Africa plus their core: they'd have trade routes to far away cities (like Cape Town to Amsterdam) while actually their cities are right next to each other (in both regions).
Having trade routes prioritize closer cities is also somewhat weird, because it does seem rather logical that longer trade routes especially to other continents and civs should bring more profit and thus be prefered and would still mean that the Congolese would have a high research bonus since the English and Dutch cities are right next to them.
Yeah, you will probably come up with something better than my "distance between capitols" but so far it seems a rather simple to understand (and probably to implement) idea with the only problem I see being the US.
New commit:
- New Civilization: Polynesia
- Spawn: 1000 BC on Tonga
- Leader: Aho'eitu
- Color: Light Pink
- Unique Building: Mala'e (Amphitheatre): requires Priesthood, halved costs, +2 culture, +1 priest and artist slots
- Unique Unit: Waka (Galley): halved costs, +2 movement, only one cargo, can build fishing boats
- Unique Power: Navigation: No penalties for cultural expansion over Ocean tiles
- Unique Historical Victory:
- Settle two of the following island groups by 800 AD: Hawaii, New Zealand, Marquesas, Easter Island
- Settle Hawaii, New Zealand, Marquesas and Easter Island by 1000 AD
- Build the Moai Statues by 1200 AD
- added the Moai Statues wonder: requires Priesthood and 20 water tiles in city radius, +2 production on water improvements
- revised the Pacific Ocean, moving or adding islands and changing coast to ocean tiles
- cities can be founded on one tile islands even with jungle
- only normal territory instead of broader territory is revealed on spawn (generally smaller rectangle)
- removed the trade route yield modifier for overseas cities
- added a trade route yield modifier based on city distance
- city border expansion now skips tiles that have already been covered by another city
- when the costs for border expansions are recalculated, only tiles yet to be covered are affected (no change of already covered plots anymore)
Yep, that's a big one.
Some pictures:
- New Civilization: Polynesia
- Spawn: 1000 BC on Tonga
- Leader: Aho'eitu
- Color: Light Pink
- Unique Building: Mala'e (Amphitheatre): requires Priesthood, halved costs, +2 culture, +1 priest and artist slots
- Unique Unit: Waka (Galley): halved costs, +2 movement, only one cargo, can build fishing boats
- Unique Power: Navigation: No penalties for cultural expansion over Ocean tiles
- Unique Historical Victory:
- Settle two of the following island groups by 800 AD: Hawaii, New Zealand, Marquesas, Easter Island
- Settle Hawaii, New Zealand, Marquesas and Easter Island by 1000 AD
- Build the Moai Statues by 1200 AD
- added the Moai Statues wonder: requires Priesthood and 20 water tiles in city radius, +2 production on water improvements
- revised the Pacific Ocean, moving or adding islands and changing coast to ocean tiles
- cities can be founded on one tile islands even with jungle
- only normal territory instead of broader territory is revealed on spawn (generally smaller rectangle)
- removed the trade route yield modifier for overseas cities
- added a trade route yield modifier based on city distance
- city border expansion now skips tiles that have already been covered by another city
- when the costs for border expansions are recalculated, only tiles yet to be covered are affected (no change of already covered plots anymore)
Yep, that's a big one.
Some pictures:
Spoiler :
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Atlantic Pacf.
Back from the dead
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Cool. So would there be obstacles that would prevent the Polynesians from settling Australia and other inappropriate places?
And wouldn't the added calculation for trade routes cause more late-game lag?
And wouldn't the added calculation for trade routes cause more late-game lag?
There's ocean between Australia and the nearby islands (New Caledonia, New Zealand) now, and New Caledonia is jungle covered and cannot be settled. There are capes around New Guinea preventing its circumnavigation, and capes around New Caledonia prevent early settling of New Zealand.
I suppose with full culture in a well placed city on New Zealand you might be able to reach Australia (I actually haven't examined this that well), but doing so takes enough time that you are well within an alt-hist timeframe anyway.
Unless you are much better than I am, when going for a UHV you have other problems on your hand than attempting an early settlement of Australia.
Another factor is expansion stability. Your core is only Tonga, Samoa and Niue, and I pleasantly discovered that city sizes remain appropriately low in Polynesia (I think the largest during my own games was size 7).
Regarding the trade routes, calculating the distance between two fixed positions is very cheap, that shouldn't be a problem. Things only become expensive when everything has to be compared with everything, most of the computation time for trade is lost determining which cities a city is connected to.
I suppose with full culture in a well placed city on New Zealand you might be able to reach Australia (I actually haven't examined this that well), but doing so takes enough time that you are well within an alt-hist timeframe anyway.
Unless you are much better than I am, when going for a UHV you have other problems on your hand than attempting an early settlement of Australia.
Another factor is expansion stability. Your core is only Tonga, Samoa and Niue, and I pleasantly discovered that city sizes remain appropriately low in Polynesia (I think the largest during my own games was size 7).
Regarding the trade routes, calculating the distance between two fixed positions is very cheap, that shouldn't be a problem. Things only become expensive when everything has to be compared with everything, most of the computation time for trade is lost determining which cities a city is connected to.
Chep
Emperor
sounds cool. And probably just the right thing after getting annoyed by those Congresses 
Even though you didn't say it, I assume this one breaks savegame-compability?
Even though you didn't say it, I assume this one breaks savegame-compability?
baseballpie
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2012
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Wow. It happened.
FinalLegendZero
Prince
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Ignore this post.
mrrandomplayer
Hopeless Situation Warrior
Oh my, I better give it a try.
Chep
Emperor
First feedback concerning Polynesia:
- are the UHV-islands "tagged" ingame?
- there are no "turn"-infos on my UHV-goals. Since I doubt that I will research Calendar, it would be really, really cool to get the goals displayed like "settle X by 800 AD (Turn XYZ)
- ending the UHV-game with the construction of the wonder seems a bit anticlimactic. You build this cool thing, but then you never get to use its bonus.
- You missed a spot, I think:
by turn 100 (so a mere 25 turns after my spawn) I am already exploring the Indonesian islands with my new-built waka.
Will go back to the start now and play a game without this "loophole".
My recommendation would be to fill this tile with Jungle that disappears in 600AD (by then the player can probably reach New Zealand and no other civ will be hindered by the change)
- are the UHV-islands "tagged" ingame?
- there are no "turn"-infos on my UHV-goals. Since I doubt that I will research Calendar, it would be really, really cool to get the goals displayed like "settle X by 800 AD (Turn XYZ)
- ending the UHV-game with the construction of the wonder seems a bit anticlimactic. You build this cool thing, but then you never get to use its bonus.
- You missed a spot, I think:
by turn 100 (so a mere 25 turns after my spawn) I am already exploring the Indonesian islands with my new-built waka.
Will go back to the start now and play a game without this "loophole".
My recommendation would be to fill this tile with Jungle that disappears in 600AD (by then the player can probably reach New Zealand and no other civ will be hindered by the change)
FinalLegendZero
Prince
- Joined
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The UHV target islands are, in fact, tagged. They're just really far from your core.
Chep
Emperor
yeah, plus I had no real idea where most of them were
The first one I reached was New Zealand.
(I think I will continue this game trying to never ever make contact with any other civ^^)
The first one I reached was New Zealand.
(I think I will continue this game trying to never ever make contact with any other civ^^)
TheNoob
Dank Memes
I'll have to try this tomorrow if I can figure out SVN.
Might have to revive my Polynesia story that I used Indonesia for.
Might have to revive my Polynesia story that I used Indonesia for.
agentxorange
Warlord
Okay, first of all, this is great. I've already played a couple of games as them, it's really fun expanding out over the Pacific reaching all the islands. Going to see how fast I can do the UHV.
Second, the UU is genius, I love that it can build fishing boats.
Third, I'm sure they'll be some interesting interaction if people let their Polynesian games roll into the colonization era.
All in all I'm just happy
Both new civs have been a lot of fun thus far.
Edit: I did have one question, are the Moai statues supposed to give all sea improvements for the civ +2 production, or just those the city works? I built it in Rapa Nui which ended up being pretty silly since it doesn't have any sea resources :/
Second, the UU is genius, I love that it can build fishing boats.
Third, I'm sure they'll be some interesting interaction if people let their Polynesian games roll into the colonization era.
All in all I'm just happy
Both new civs have been a lot of fun thus far.Edit: I did have one question, are the Moai statues supposed to give all sea improvements for the civ +2 production, or just those the city works? I built it in Rapa Nui which ended up being pretty silly since it doesn't have any sea resources :/
Polynesian music suggestion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-Qt6JtrjV8&list=PLF715467C7698B36C
This is from modern Taiwan aboriginals, there are some researches implies that Taiwan was the homeland of Polynesians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-Qt6JtrjV8&list=PLF715467C7698B36C
This is from modern Taiwan aboriginals, there are some researches implies that Taiwan was the homeland of Polynesians.
Wait. So there is actually a penalty for cultural expansion to ocean tiles? (Except for Polynesia)
The new civ is interesting but dull. You just build and explore your limited area, the only way out is via New Guinea and Indonesia like Chep displayed. Aw I really want another uber game but all I can do is art.
So the only possible old-fashioned conquer strategy is settle Havaiti, build another waka, then settle Manila, then make your way toward the world.
So the only possible old-fashioned conquer strategy is settle Havaiti, build another waka, then settle Manila, then make your way toward the world.
Chep
Emperor
with 3 tiny core cities that share a grand total of 2 tiles that produce >2 food^^ yeah
thats a Domination Victory I'd like to see.
Have you played any lategame-civs recently? I had a lot of trouble with Congresses when playing as Prussia and wondered if you encountered that one as well
thats a Domination Victory I'd like to see.
Have you played any lategame-civs recently? I had a lot of trouble with Congresses when playing as Prussia and wondered if you encountered that one as well
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