Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[Leoreth]

Does initial spy experience count towards Great Spy points? That's not intended.

 

[youtien]

This is still current as of SVN 887, in my Prussian game when i was spying on the americas i noticed the barbs were still stacking a little in Canada around the time of the American spawn and after.

This is reasonable. Barbs are not idiots, they should be able to learn not to crush against superior armies in well guarded cities. Fortify on forest hill could represent as holding their own territory. But they shouldn't stack over 1-6 units in a tile, maybe 2 units per food, so a deer forest could hold 6 barb units.

 

[char81]

I feel that Japan needs a buff to its tech rate, as even when Japan has all of China and a similar amount of cities to the Euros they still struggle to compete with the Euros tech-wise. This makes it really difficult to complete the tech tree first, as England, France, America, Prussia or the Dutch will usually beat you to the end. I suggest that the modifiers be improved for Japan so that it has a chance to compete with Europe, or that it be given better economic or growth modifiers (I know Japan wasn't very advanced for a while, but in civ it's difficult to properly simulate an event like the Meji Restoration where a country rapidly and suddenly advanced). This wouldn't really affect the Ai much, as Japan usually does horribly as an Ai, staying trapped on their island and not even attempting to expand.

Also does the Mongol unique power expire?


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[ezzlar]

I feel that civics have too little impact in the game. It´s mostly about rearrange output bonuses. And specifically, the modern despotic ones have too few restraints. I would like two things:

- Police State and similar get a huge culture penalty, maybe -50% or 75%. For some even a research penalty would fit, -10% or -20%. Great person penalty is another way to go.
- High negative attitude modifiers making civic choices being the large split between civs (just like religion is in the early game). "-12 Your corrupt society is an abomination to humanity".

And then if you could work some magic behind the scenes inclining a west/east split in civics that would make end game a lot better!

 

[Leoreth]

Also does the Mongol unique power expire?

Nope.

I feel that civics have too little impact in the game. It´s mostly about rearrange output bonuses. And specifically, the modern despotic ones have too few restraints.

What else would civics be? It's more fun to select from a set of advantages than from a set of penalties.

And I disagree with the idea that certain civics should carry disadvantages because we do not like them ideologically.

- High negative attitude modifiers making civic choices being the large split between civs (just like religion is in the early game). "-12 Your corrupt society is an abomination to humanity".

I want to do something like that at some point.

 

[strijder20]

I feel that Japan needs a buff to its tech rate, as even when Japan has all of China and a similar amount of cities to the Euros they still struggle to compete with the Euros tech-wise. This makes it really difficult to complete the tech tree first, as England, France, America, Prussia or the Dutch will usually beat you to the end. I suggest that the modifiers be improved for Japan so that it has a chance to compete with Europe, or that it be given better economic or growth modifiers (I know Japan wasn't very advanced for a while, but in civ it's difficult to properly simulate an event like the Meji Restoration where a country rapidly and suddenly advanced). This wouldn't really affect the Ai much, as Japan usually does horribly as an Ai, staying trapped on their island and not even attempting to expand.

I was thinking just the same thing. It's a bit of a pity that the first Asian nation to industrialize is currently a medieval backwater, even outperformed sometimes by Ethiopia and the likes. I know you don't like conqueror events, Leoreth, but it seems that some kind of help to conquer an independent Korea is required for Japan to do well.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Since when is the Settings tab on the Victory Screen gone and why? At first I thought there was just something wrong with my version but now I saw it in another player's screenshot as well.

I feel that civics have too little impact in the game. It´s mostly about rearrange output bonuses. And specifically, the modern despotic ones have too few restraints. I would like two things:

- Police State and similar get a huge culture penalty, maybe -50% or 75%. For some even a research penalty would fit, -10% or -20%. Great person penalty is another way to go.
- High negative attitude modifiers making civic choices being the large split between civs (just like religion is in the early game). "-12 Your corrupt society is an abomination to humanity".

And then if you could work some magic behind the scenes inclining a west/east split in civics that would make end game a lot better!

Nope, definitely not. We don't want a repeat of the "no cottages and trade routes for you" Agrarianism from 1.10. High upkeep, sure, but beyond that we should really rather boost the competing civics than introduce more punitive gameplay. The game is more fun if you get to choose between several things that are good in their own way rather than just picking your poison, and if there's only one option of several that has clear drawbacks then that option is one that nobody will ever use unless it has some really good boni to make up for them.

Your second suggestion is much better, though I'm not sure about the exact numbers. I'm thinking maybe one + or - per different civic would be enough, double that for favorite civic, which would give a maximum modifier of -/+7.

 

[Leoreth]

I was thinking just the same thing. It's a bit of a pity that the first Asian nation to industrialize is currently a medieval backwater, even outperformed sometimes by Ethiopia and the likes. I know you don't like conqueror events, Leoreth, but it seems that some kind of help to conquer an independent Korea is required for Japan to do well.

Not that I am opposed, but if the problem is mostly research and production, I don't think Korea would help much.

 

[strijder20]

Not that I am opposed, but if the problem is mostly research and production, I don't think Korea would help much.

Well, Korea has some commerce to offer - but more importantly, it serves as a foothold on the mainland, which can alleviate the AI's difficulty with launching overseas invasions on Manchuria and China.

 

[ezzlar]

Nope.


What else would civics be? It's more fun to select from a set of advantages than from a set of penalties.

And I disagree with the idea that certain civics should carry disadvantages because we do not like them ideologically.


I want to do something like that at some point.

RFCE has a very balanced approach to civics. Where the civics provide some critical advantages, they also have drawback to balance the civics out. In DoC I think some of the civics are too good. To bring them on pair with the others they would need some penalties. Which also is realistic, look at countries like Russia and China. They indeed have problems generating "great" people. Or what would the cultural output be for the Axis countries? This could also be achieved by giving the other civics better modifiers (if you really dislike penalties). But that would also create more of the "abundance" problem that arises sometimes.

Nice if you did the attitude thing!

 

[Leoreth]

I think that is a pretty narrow and reductionist outlook on these specific civics.

 

[ezzlar]

It´s a game. And not too far away from real life observations.

 

[Leoreth]

It´s a game.

And that means to generalize, not to focus on specific examples.

 

[char81]

Well, Korea has some commerce to offer - but more importantly, it serves as a foothold on the mainland, which can alleviate the AI's difficulty with launching overseas invasions on Manchuria and China.

I think instead of this Japan just needs better modifiers. It's not really the amount of cities Japan has (Britain and France can research super well even with few cities) but rather the poor research and production modifiers Japan has. I think it could even be a good idea to encourage Japan to colonize more, especially in Taiwan, Manchuria and on rare occasions (when a european doesn't do it) California. Also is there anyway to encourage an ai to conduct aggressive naval invasions, as it seems some are good at it, like the Vikings and British.


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[TheNoob]

So I was bored and looking around the Sevopedia, and I see Abu Bakr as-Siddiq as a leaderhead. I haven't seen him in-game before and I'm wondering how he becomes the LH for Arabia?

 

[Leoreth]

He doesn't, he was used before the Harun al-Rashid LH was available.

 

[TheNoob]

Oh, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Shadow Warlord]

I think instead of this Japan just needs better modifiers. It's not really the amount of cities Japan has (Britain and France can research super well even with few cities) but rather the poor research and production modifiers Japan has. I think it could even be a good idea to encourage Japan to colonize more, especially in Taiwan, Manchuria and on rare occasions (when a european doesn't do it) California. Also is there anyway to encourage an ai to conduct aggressive naval invasions, as it seems some are good at it, like the Vikings and British.


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And America, and some of the South American civs like Brazil and Argentina that randomly conquer cities on another continent.

 

[CaterpillarKing]

I don't know why South America has such an affinity for conquering overseas. I've seen Brazil South Africa, the Canaries, and even Iberia. I've seen Colombia in Manilla, also in Iberia. It's just insane

 

[Shadow Warlord]

I don't know why South America has such an affinity for conquering overseas. I've seen Brazil South Africa, the Canaries, and even Iberia. I've seen Colombia in Manilla, also in Iberia. It's just insane

They're taking revenge and conquering the mother country.