D.C. Circuit guts ObamaCare

Private insurance today NEGOTIATES repayment, JR. It's become universal now. Once the Federal government got involved with Medicare and Medicaid and negotiated payments, then private insurance said, "Hey, we'll do that too!" See insurance companies stiff the patient and the doc.
I've seen billing and payment records (in defending a doctor against an insurance company) - and yes - the insurance companies do not pay what the doctor bills - but it sure seems they are paying out enough for a doctor to do more than a 9 minute diagnosis and still stay profitable.
 
I've seen billing and payment records (in defending a doctor against an insurance company) - and yes - the insurance companies do not pay what the doctor bills - but it sure seems they are paying out enough for a doctor to do more than a 9 minute diagnosis and still stay profitable.

Most docs do not make that much money from their businesses if you compare them to other businesses. Check and see if this isn't true.

What many physicians do is rely upon their lines of credit, invest their money in real estate projects as well as diversify their portfolio, and slowly make enough money to pay off medical school debts, keep solvent despite the large amount of uncollectable receivables, and then retire and do consulting work.

One could make more money operating a used car business than becoming a doc. I don't know but a handful of docs who encourage their children to become one. It's a thankless job, with too many hours, too much education to finally get paid a dime, has no level of respect anymore, a presumption of medical errors by patient and lawyer, and so why become one?

Why in the face of being slammed by Obamacare with a lack of staffing?:confused:
 
Most docs do not make that much money from their businesses if you compare them to other businesses.

I thought you said it wasn't about the money. If they are making enough money to invest in real estate projects, then it seems to be a profitable enough profession. Take 11 minutes per patient and cut back on the investing a bit.
 
I thought you said it wasn't about the money. If they are making enough money to invest in real estate projects, then it seems to be a profitable enough profession. Take 11 minutes per patient and cut back on the investing a bit.

If colleges didn't charge so much so much money then medical practitioners wouldn't need so much. I don't know how much debt a lawyer comes off with after law school, but eight years of medical school ensures that a doctor is not going to make money from medicine for a while at least.

I think the first step to reforming health care would be to cost college costs down.
 
Most docs do not make that much money from their businesses if you compare them to other businesses. Check and see if this isn't true.

What many physicians do is rely upon their lines of credit, invest their money in real estate projects as well as diversify their portfolio, and slowly make enough money to pay off medical school debts, keep solvent despite the large amount of uncollectable receivables, and then retire and do consulting work.

One could make more money operating a used car business than becoming a doc. I don't know but a handful of docs who encourage their children to become one. It's a thankless job, with too many hours, too much education to finally get paid a dime, has no level of respect anymore, a presumption of medical errors by patient and lawyer, and so why become one?

Why in the face of being slammed by Obamacare with a lack of staffing?:confused:

As a former car salesman I can honestly say that one could make more money operating a used car business than one can make doing literally anything else short of being a professional athlete, so citing that as the example for your 'oh the poor impoverished doctors' plea is irrelevant.

Also as a former car salesman and finance manger at numerous car lots I can claim a fair degree of knowledge about comparative incomes having seen hundreds of examples...and your 'oh the poor impoverished doctors' plea cannot be substantiated. Yes the initial investment in education is high, but the return on that investment is far higher than return on any other educational investment, generally including lawyers (sorry JR).
 
I agree that college costs are a problem. It is a problem for the legal profession and that is just 3 years of post-graduate education. Nevertheless, if doctors can still stash away money for real estate investing despite the student loan debt, then the profession is comfortably profitable and the 9 minute diagnosis is just a chosen limitation designed to maximize income and discretionary funds for real estate speculation.
 
However, I want to ask this- is it an industry wide practice this nine minute diagnosis? I mean, I spend around half an hour every time I visit the pediatrician. Also I have type 1 diabetes, so I have to visit a endocrinologist , which takes a while too. It's only bad doctors who give a nine minute diagnosis.
 
However, I want to ask this- is it an industry wide practice this nine minute diagnosis? I mean, I spend around half an hour every time I visit the pediatrician. Also I have type 1 diabetes, so I have to visit a endocrinologist , which takes a while too. It's only bad doctors who give a nine minute diagnosis.

They aren't bad, they are just profit driven. Perhaps they feel a far greater need for financial success due to some personal issue.
 
In that long office visit, how much face time did you spend with a family practice doc, or with the endocrinologist though? I'll bet that an RN took you back, performed a weight, blood pressure check, asked you some screening questions, and then you sat in the exam room waiting for the doc to show up. Maybe he/she appears and disappears based upon the complexity of your case, and the nurse comes back with a script or change, instructions, and then you pay the bill/sign forms.

In all of that, the average face time is nine minutes due to Managed Care, not 30. If you get thirty, you're very fortunate. This study found 8 minutes was the norm.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/for-new-doctors-8-minutes-per-patient/?_r=0

Due to the high amounts of endocrine issues like Diabetes (1 and 2) and the amount of out of control blood sugar, then it then begins to affect many systems of the body (occular, circulation, immune) and so forth.

Under Obamacare, you're likely to have a wellness check, determine that you're at risk of Diabetes in various forms and intensity, but then will be given milestones to shoot for regarding the control of your blood sugar. If you don't meet these wellness goals, then an increase in premium costs. As Diabetes always ends up with a poor outcome as we age, then an increase in services due to these other systems, and so rising prices as more than an average amount of services are concentrated in that Diabetic patient.

Traditionally due to very low reimbursement and complex economic issues, Medicaid Diabetics had poor outcomes. If money is tight, then acquiring an insulin pump is a major problem. No one is guaranteeding an equitable amount of healthcare services, but a level of healthcare services, right?

As a decline in a Diabetic patient's life occurs, then it directly affects their ability to work, and so it behooves whatever medical system to keep the patient healthy. Otherwise a system could be regionally hammered by many ailing Diabetic patients, dramatically driving up the cost, for they might no longer be working, and so end up on Medicaid.

It's a cruel disease. CDC statistics estimate 29 million of 9.3% of the US population has Diabetes of some form, with only 20 million diagnosed. It's a significant part of American healthcare. Earlier diagnosis would help as type 1 manifest in the teen years but Diabetes 2 is largely preventable unless there is a genetic component.

Note that a Diabetics compliance can be measured or estimated and so wellness checks might monitor this and again raise health insurance premiums based upon the patient's actions. It could knock a patient from being considered for certain procedures.

Type 2 is largely preventable, it's that our diet and moderation is so out-of-sync, slamming the body with sugar substances and so placing too much demand on the pancreas. As such, wellness counselors might really raise rates if milestones are not achieved.

Don't think patients are getting a free ride. They're not with Obamacare versus standard health insurance.

EDIT:
This is not an unsolvable problem. One tactic that has been suggested is the focused patient meeting versus the standard patient meeting. To do a patient history means hunting around to watch body language and tone to see what the patient is feeling and experiencing versus what they verbalize. It's very hit-and-miss.

Writing down things help stay on target. If you do this as the patient, then the physician can more quickly assess your illness and not just look at symptoms.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal...utes-face-time-with-your-doctor-make-it-work/

Another better suggestion is the patient journal. When you have a chronic condition, then you have a specific journal with say ten measurements, and then show it to the doc with a synopsis of your findings.
http://familydoctor.org/familydocto...th-your-doctor/creating-a-health-journal.html
Spoiler :
What is a health journal?

A health journal is a complete record of your health. You keep the health journal yourself. The journal helps you keep track of every aspect of your health.


What is included in a health journal?

A health journal should keep track of your overall health. Some of the things you should include are:


•Illness or injury
•Hospitalizations
•Surgeries
•Allergies
•Medicines, vitamins or supplements that you are taking and how often you take them
•Diseases or illness in your immediate family


When you fill in your health history, be sure to include the dates. For example, if you were hospitalized, write down the date that you were admitted and the date you were discharged. You can also include notes on how you were feeling.


Why should I have a health journal?

A health journal is an easy way to keep track of your health. By recording your health history, you can keep track of illnesses, medicines, treatments and procedures. Be sure to take your health journal to your doctor’s appointments. This will help you provide your doctor with exact information about your health. Your doctor can also help you keep your health journal up-to-date.

Keeping track of your health history helps you to be an informed, knowledgeable patient. Knowledge allows you to take more control of your healthcare. A health journal can also help you keep yourself healthy. Your journal will help you understand what makes you sick and how to take better care of yourself.

Example: "I noticed that my blood sugar was ill controlled on these days when I ate these foods. My exercise regiment has been irregular but when it was maintained through Yoga and two days per week of cardio, then I managed to do much better."

You write down your weight, your mood on a scale of one to ten, medications, brief diet, strange incidents, etc and then working in partnership with the RN and the Doc and yourself, then come to some conclusions. It sounds simplistic, but many ailments have lots of components that cause them, and it's unclear what the root cause is.

Say it's abdominal pain. Well any number of things could cause it, but it might be as simple as too many caffinated drinks resulting in overstimulating the intestines, and not a sign of something more serious. You could end up having unnecessary tests that are intrusive and very unpleasant, and an incorrect diagnosis like Irritable Bowel Syndrome, when it was too much Mountain Dew or very strong coffee.
 
However, I want to ask this- is it an industry wide practice this nine minute diagnosis? I mean, I spend around half an hour every time I visit the pediatrician. Also I have type 1 diabetes, so I have to visit a endocrinologist , which takes a while too. It's only bad doctors who give a nine minute diagnosis.

I've had shorter than 9 minute examinations before. And those were essentially cold calls - the doctor had never seen me before and didn't have any of my medical records. He talked into a recorder at 5000 wpm and diagnosed me without even making eye contact. I was in and out in 5 minutes.

I don't know how common that is, though for most of my normal check ups I'm in and out in 10 minutes.
 
The price of medical school is mostly due to Demand Side inflation as well. I don't think anyone resents doctors making decent coin, it's better to complain that their incentive system is wonky. Or, not designed to create the outcomes we want anyway. If there's a weird per-patient metric, it's 'cause they are responding to the incentive system.

The healthcare market is fraught with the market failures Econ 101 tells us about. It's why so many socialized medicine countries out-perform. The imposed optimization is superior to the one that shook out.
 
I don't think anyone resents doctors making decent coin

Even I, while clearly being accused of this, don't resent it. I only get snotty about it when doctors play the "I'm so underpaid that only my real estate investments will make me rich" song. They are probably the only people I've ever seen who can talk about being underpaid and making investments in the same breath.
 
Look harder Tim. There's white boys all over the internet. Even here! Lots here, really.
 
Look harder Tim. There's white boys all over the internet. Even here! Lots here, really.

Oh I know lots of people who talk about both...but everyone but doctors seems to recognize the contrast so they at least put a few beats in between.
 
Under Obamacare, you're likely to have a wellness check, determine that you're at risk of Diabetes in various forms and intensity, but then will be given milestones to shoot for regarding the control of your blood sugar. If you don't meet these wellness goals, then an increase in premium costs.

I was under the impression that one of the big changes with the ACA was that your insurer couldn't just hike up your rate if you get sick.
 
Oh I know lots of people who talk about both...but everyone but doctors seems to recognize the contrast so they at least put a few beats in between.

But you can't talk about progressively upping the taxation on people with three quarters of a million bucks socked away in retirement accounts. They're not that well off you see. Plus we aren't taking into account what a nice neighborhood they live in, it skews their cost of living. Also with the medical care they can afford they might live a long long time while retired! Poor things.
 
I was under the impression that one of the big changes with the ACA was that your insurer couldn't just hike up your rate if you get sick.

That's the real ACA. The wellness check rate hike system is right there after the death panel section in the FoxNews version. It's right before the secret program to turn America Muslim cost analysis.
 
On average half your medical costs come in the last year of life. Simple to say, but the implications are profound. Insurance tries to recognize it as a fact. ACA does not.

J
 
Well, there will always be Death Panels. It's a question of whether it's your family deciding to not re-mortgage their home, some bureaucrat who's got a mandate from a politician beholden to the voter, or to an executive whose incentives are more aligned with the shareholders.

Americans already had Medicare, though. It's not like the ACA is a major change on that front. Medicare was slipping from being self-sustaining already, so eventually some political party had to jump on the grenade (since a bi-partisan solution would never happen, since partisanship is better for politicians).

The trick to those last 6 months are systematic ways to bring down the price of those essential services. Most of the health care debate doesn't really deal with that. The incentives in the system are wonky, too. People get paid when we buy a few more weeks at $10k each. What you really want are off-patent solutions that make those last few month acceptable.
 
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