Deaths in Iraq

[homeyg]

Fox News

Total US military deaths in Iraq to date: 3,963.

Wow! It sounds like this war has been such a failure!

Vietnam had a total of around 60,000 deaths after 16 years (Vietnam being a real example of a failure). If this war lasts as long as Vietnam, there will only be around 20% of those deaths at the rate we are going.

 

[hossam]

i dont think people think the iraq war is a failure because of the american death rate but because the u.s has been unable to establish order in the country

 

[homeyg]

i dont think people think the iraq war is a failure because of the american death rate but because the u.s has been unable to establish order in the country

People want instant gratification. We are never going to have order established if we just remove our troops like the liberals want.

 

[Ramius75]

Iraqis civilian death 81,328 – 88,783

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

This is according to a conservative estimate and some even estimate a death toll of 655,000. According to Bush in 2006. the death toll was 30,000.

Sorry. But the WAR is a freaking bloody failure as i see it.

But then again which War isn't ?

 

[The Yankee]

Each death is significant. If a person believes that there should be no US involvement in Iraq, then each death is also a reason to get out.

Depends who you ask.

Besides, Iraq isn't Vietnam.

 

[skadistic]

Iraqis civilian death 81,328 – 88,783

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

This is according to a conservative estimate and some even estimate a death toll of 655,000. According to Bush in 2006. the death toll was 30,000.

Sorry. But the WAR is a freaking bloody failure as i see it.

But then again which War isn't ?

Who is killing those civilians?

And that 600k number is total BS.

 

[holy king]

Who is killing those civilians?

various fractions in the (still latent, wait till the us pulls out) iraki civil war...
why do you ask?

 

[Ramius75]

Who is killing those civilians?

And that 600k number is total BS.

Were there so many civilian killed before the war ? What was the standard of living in Iraq before the war ? How many Iraqis soldiers were killed in the initial invasion? No blood in USA hands ?

 

[LesCanadiens]

There are a lot fewer troops involved than in Viet Nam. At it's peak, US troop involvement in Viet Nam was approximately 553,000. US troop strength in Iraq is currently around 120,000.

Besides which, comparing the two isn't really appropriate. In Viet Nam, you had a clearly defined enemy with territory, infrastructure, and heavy weapons such as combat aircraft and tanks. In Iraq, the enemy has none of those.

 

[Alpine Trooper]

facing the fearful and powerful army of iraq i am suprised the u.s. only had 4k casualties. you guys should invade canada next.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

Victory and defeat isn't measured by a death toll. And yes < 4000 is small in historical terms.

 

[skadistic]

Were there so many civilian killed before the war ? What was the standard of living in Iraq before the war ? How many Iraqis soldiers were killed in the initial invasion? No blood in USA hands ?

Yes there were many civilians killed before the war. The mass graves are there. Standard of living for who exactly? The Marsh arabs who had there land drained? Maybe the Kurds who were gassed and bombed and killed by the army? Or do you mean the shia who were slaughtered? Maybe you mean the political prisoners and their children who were imprisoned and tortured en mass. The sunni had it great they had all the fresh water and electricity. If you weren't sunni and baath you standard of living was even to what it is now or in the case of the kurds worse. Soldiers die its part of the job detail. Who said no blood? There have been errant bombs and other instances. But be honest. Who is doing the killing? When a bomb blows up a mosque or market its not the US now is it? When 50 men are found executed in a wearhouse its not the US. When a torture house is raided its not the US.

 

[Ecofarm]

This is according to a conservative estimate and some even estimate a death toll of 655,000.

Some? Try ONE. Don't fluff it up. You (probably) know damn well it was a single report, funded by the money behind MoveOn and AirAmerica.

I can't believe you would even put that out there. That report has been discredited a number of times. It was funded by George Soros and included ALL deaths in the country - attributing them all (auto accidents, home robberys, slip and fall, even OLD AGE) to the US.

You discredit yourself. If you did not know that report was complete BS and has been discredited by numerous organizations, well then.. at least now you know.

I can't believe people still buy Soro's crap. How can one man BS an entire demographic (young and agnsty) for so long?? It's amazing, really. No matter how many times his "independant reports" are discredited, people just keep going back to MoveOn and AirAmerica for more! It's like they're scientologists or something. Nothing can stop this cult of "independant reports" and "unbiased journalists".

 

[warpus]

The U.S. could have had 1 casualty in Iraq, and it wouldn't have made it any more of a 'success'.

Oh yeah, and death to the liberals *chant*

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Besides which, comparing the two isn't really appropriate. In Viet Nam, you had a clearly defined enemy with territory, infrastructure, and heavy weapons such as combat aircraft and tanks. In Iraq, the enemy has none of those.

Perhaps up by the DMZ you did, but the majority of the war was fought in the South, where the situation was very much like that in Iraq: guerilla force that blends in with the civilian population, troops go on patrols through the same civilian areas, and basically wait to get shot so they can engage the enemy.

To be quite short, there's simply no way you can win that sort of war without leveling every town and throwing the Geneva Convention out the window.

Our best hope in Iraq is to form some sort of truce with the warlords (which will probably involve us leaving) to somehow get them to call their flunkies off.

 

[Ecofarm]

NEWSFLASH:

Iraq is a democracy!

No more chemical weapons killing towns of 10,000 people at a time (for a total of 250,000 in one 3 year period).

No more honor killings being legal.

No more FGM being legal.

Women are allowed to learn how to read.

Women are allowed to vote.

No more state sanctioned rape, murder, or kidnapping.

No more Saddam's sons going into school and choosing girls to rape and murder.

No more Saddam Dungeons.

No more draining the land of the Swamp Arabs, killing them by the 10,000 like the Kurds.

No more court sentances of gang-rape for women.


Sure... no success there. None at all. Those changes are obviously huge failures. We should just put things back the way they were. Girls, to the rape rooms! And let's get digging some mass graves, because we've got years of Kurd and Swamp Arab killing to catch up on. I want those dungeons re-opened and filled with 20k people asap. Crank up the agriculture biochem -> weapons plants, because there's another 1/2 million Kurds that need a purging, chemical Ali style! And someone call France, because we got some oil to trade for "food". Oh, and I almost forgot - someone gather up all the homosexuals.

Woo! Good times are here again!

 

[kramerfan86]

Ill declare it a success when Iraq can actually do something without US handholding. Anywhere can be a "success" if you dump enough troops on it, the true failure or success hinges on what Iraq can do for itself.

 

[Ramius75]

Yes there were many civilians killed before the war. The mass graves are there. Standard of living for who exactly? The Marsh arabs who had there land drained? Maybe the Kurds who were gassed and bombed and killed by the army? Or do you mean the shia who were slaughtered? Maybe you mean the political prisoners and their children who were imprisoned and tortured en mass. The sunni had it great they had all the fresh water and electricity. If you weren't sunni and baath you standard of living was even to what it is now or in the case of the kurds worse. Soldiers die its part of the job detail. Who said no blood? There have been errant bombs and other instances. But be honest. Who is doing the killing? When a bomb blows up a mosque or market its not the US now is it? When 50 men are found executed in a wearhouse its not the US. When a torture house is raided its not the US.

There are many ways to remove Saddam Hussein. The USA could remove him in 1992 but they didn't. Which to me is a disaster of its own.

Iraq's standard of living and education were one of the best and its not only the Sunnis who benefits from it. Sure, there were a lot of discriminant between the Sunni and Shites but that is not an excuse for invasion.

Don't forget the most of the mass killing in Iraq was tolerated by the USA gov which ironically, support Saddam Hussein over the Iranian regime.

And speaking of torture of dissident. Who can forget Abu Ghraib?

Even the Bush's and Blair's administration all known too well that the above reasons does not suffice for an excuse and invasion that they had to come out a lie about WMD and Saddam hussein intentions to build one. Not to mention the link between Saddam Hussein and Al queda.

If i only judge an outcome of the war by its intention alone. Its already a failure when there were none WMD to be found and even the intelligent in USA acknowledge that they were wrong.

So who is in the right and who is in the wrong ? If one cannot understand the perversive of law and justice and still think the invasion is Right. will there be more such massive mistakes in the future ?? Those that cannot remember the past will be condemn to repeat it.

How many more mistakes do USA wants to make and is its Population that dumb to believe in one lie after another ? Vietnam, Panama, Nicaragua, Iraq ?

 

[hossam]

NEWSFLASH:

Iraq is a democracy!

No more chemical weapons killing towns of 10,000 people at a time (for a total of 250,000 in one 3 year period).

No more honor killings being legal.

No more FGM being legal.

Women are allowed to learn how to read.

Women are allowed to vote.

No more state sanctioned rape, murder, or kidnapping.

No more Saddam's sons going into school and choosing girls to rape and murder.

No more Saddam Dungeons.

No more draining the land of the Swamp Arabs, killing them by the 10,000 like the Kurds.

No more court sentances of gang-rape for women.


Sure... no success there. None at all. Those changes are obviously huge failures. We should just put things back the way they were. Girls, to the rape rooms! And let's get digging some mass graves, because we've got years of Kurd and Swamp Arab killing to catch up on. I want those dungeons re-opened and filled with 20k people asap. Crank up the agriculture biochem -> weapons plants, because there's another 1/2 million Kurds that need a purging, chemical Ali style! And someone call France, because we got some oil to trade for "food". Oh, and I almost forgot - someone gather up all the homosexuals.

Woo! Good times are here again!

it wasnt the u.s's business to fix those things in the first place, nobody wanted them to.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

it wasnt the u.s's business to fix those things in the first place, nobody wanted them to.

I bet the Kurds and the Shi'ites did.