Deity Always War OCC

Wait, no tech trading? That doesn't make it impossible!

And without the handmade start you wouldn't be able to win space. Honest.
 
I am trying this out - died twice - but still enjoying it.
However on both occasions when I moved my warrior adjacent to the hut just outside the pass, {i.e. turn 3} the hut has just disappeared. Is this normal? It doesn't happen to any of the other huts.
 
It means someone else took it :p
 
A similar map was created for a SG http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=215169
I shadowed the game and enjoyed it.
I don't think this one could have been done by conquest, but no tech trade surely slows down the AI a lot.
As for WW for the AI on deity, in this game the setting was not AW, the player just declared immediately on the AI upon meeting them. I checked WB near the end of the game, and the AI WW was around 60% for an AI that had lost almost 1000 units on my territory. So late game it does affect the AI but don't count on it for much, especially with the AW setting.
The city itself was the choke on this one so they all came for it.
 
Well I managed a conquest victory in 1830, although I had to reload a couple of times. There is not much you can do when the random number generator decides that a knight charge against the chokepoint vs 3 rifle generals with maximum promotions works.

Anyway my endgame strategy was a bit different, I didn´t upgrade samurai, but instead relied on very early commando mech infanteries to take out important weakly defended AI cities. My generals led the charge with max promotions, so the 3-4 defenders the AI keeps in its backyard cities were no problem.

Another thing that helped was luck with huts in the beginning. If you go for the huts in the valley first with your starting warrior, they pop mining and masonry, which leads to a very early great wall.

The CS slingshot worked perfectly for me: I had an early great spy, which I burned on a golden age, so that I could immediately adopt representation, bureaucracy, caste system and confucianism without turns lost to anarchy.
After CS I beelined machinery, then education -->astronomy (still in the bcs) --> economics --> rifling to deal with knights --> biology from liberalism --> robotics.

I chose the conventional globe over the heroic epic, I was rolling in cash from razing at the end and production was enough to build everything in one turn anyway. The globe let me run pacifism instead of free religion and I didn´t need to waste hammers on the later happiness buildings or switch out of caste system.
 
I really had no hope of getting the Oracle in my game to slingshot Civil Service, tha AI built it around 2300 B.C, well before the 1675B.C. when you got it. I'm also pretty amazed that you had +575 beakers at 275BC.
I'm at 1480, still hanging on.. got about 4 G.G.'s attached to units with over 500 exp each.
 
260 BC to 805 AD, 72 turns

First, I'd like to respond to some of the comments above.

Turinturambar, congratulations on finishing in 1830. Very impressive. The use of commando mechs is a good idea. That is what I produced post-rifling. They tend to die in city attacks more than city raiders, but their speed is an undeniable asset. The globe is a good choice is you don't do mass upgrades. As you note, once the conquest starts, there is no money issue.

Quornix, in retrospect I agree that the Statue of Zeus is a good idea. It might have slowed Hammurabi's teching, which nearly cost me the game. At the time I was trying to avoid Great Artist points, but it would have been worth the risk.

Turn 158 (230 BC): I get both a great spy (yuck, but I settle him) and my 2nd great general (Adolphus) who joins one of my axemen, then upgrades to samurai.
Turn 162 (170 BC): Having finished a market, I start Angkor Wat.
Turn 163 (155 BC): Printing press in. Research Monarchy, Feudalism, Guilds, Banking, and Economics.
Turn 169 (65 BC): 3rd great general (Sun Tzu) boosts axeman to samurai.
Turn 172 (20 BC): 4th great general (Vercingetorix). Banking in so revolt to Mercantilism. Angkor Wat in (switch to priest specialists). Start bank, followed by grocer.
Turn 176 (40 AD): Another great general (settled). There are coming fast during this period. If you are wondering how I can take so many attacks without loss, look at the following picture:

samurai.jpg

7-10 first strikes! It is very rare for an attacker to do any damage at all. The drill promotions also reduce collateral damage from siege weapons. No other unit can get this many first strikes (not even the chokonu). You might wonder why I gave the unit city raider and charge promotions. I plan to upgrade to grenadiers soon and will lose the opportunity to take these promotions after that. I want all possible promotions in the long run.

Turn 177 (55 AD): Economics in. Get both a great merchant and engineer (both settled). Research Construction, Engineering, Gunpowder, Chemistry. My Statue of Zeus is cashed in for 417 gold.
Turn 183 (145 AD): Start Parthenon.
Turn 187 (205 AD): Parthenon becomes 466 gold. Start Chichen Itza.
Turn 189 (235 AD): Chemistry in. Start Liberalism. Note that none of the AIs has Paper yet, so I've got the slingshot for sure.
Turn 191 (265 AD): Great general (settled).
Turn 192 (280 AD): Great prophet (settled). Stop Liberalism one turn from completion. Research Scientific Method.
Turn 193 (295 AD): Chichen Itza becomes 602 gold. Start Notre Dame.
Turn 199 (385 AD): Scientific method in. Finish Liberalism.
Turn 200 (400 AD): Liberalism in. Pick Biology. Research Divine Right. Stop Notre Dame to build National Park. Great general settled.
Turn 203 (445 AD): National Park in, huge surge in growth. Finish Notre Dame, followed by Taoist temple, Islamic temple, mosque, pagoda, Confucian academy, and cathedral (lots of happy and lots of priest specialists).
Turn 205 (475 AD): Divine right in. Found Islam. Research Military Science.
Turn 209 (535 AD): Great prophet settled.
Turn 210 (550 AD): Military science in. Research Sailing, Calender, Replaceable Parts, and Steam Power. I start upgrading to grenadiers, starting with Geronimo, my lowest experience unit. I want to keep the experience as even as possible.
Turn 219 (685 AD): Great general settled.
Turn 222 (730 AD): Build spy (to counter espionage, which is becoming a nuisance), followed by colosseum.
Turn 225 (775 AD): Steam power in. Research Nationalism, Constitution, Corporation, and Assembly Line. Start levee.
Turn 226 (790 AD): Great general settled.
Turn 227 (805 AD): Levee in. Build University of Sankore and Spiral Minaret, both to within 1 turn of completion.

The levee gives a huge boost to my production as seen here:

levee.jpg

My troops continue to develop, but Geronimo can't seem to earn any experience, due to making him a medic:

grenadiers.jpg

The save game at this point:

View attachment mwilliam AD-0805.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
820 AD to 1460 AD, 85 turns

These turns went really fast.

Turn 232 (870 AD): University of Sankore becomes 595 gold.
Turn 236 (910 AD): With Constitution in, build a jail.
Turn 238 (930 AD): Population reaches 31, the break-even level. Switch production to Taj Mahal.
Turn 240 (950 AD): Great scientist settled. Spiral minaret becomes 740 gold.
Turn 245 (1000 AD): Taj Mahal becomes 1,029 gold. Build wealth.
Turn 246 (1010 AD): Great general settled.
Turn 249 (1040 AD): Assembly line in. Research Steel. Build factory and shale plant. Note that the shale plant works with the National Park, unlike a coal plant.
Turn 255 (1100 AD): Great scientist and general settled. Steel in. Research Compass, Optics, Astronomy, and Physics. Halt Pentagon to build Ironworks.
Turn 260 (1150 AD): Resume Pentagon.

This is the production level given the new production buildings:

ironworks.JPG

Turn 262 (1170 AD): Halt Pentagon for observatory.
Turn 269 (1240 AD): Great general builds military academy. Physics in. Research Animal Husbandry and Railroad. Settle great scientist.
Turn 271 (1255 AD): Pentagon in. Build Heroic Epic. Settle great scientist.
Turn 273 (1265 AD): With Heroic Epic in, start an infinite stream of chariots. Chariots? They are the cheapest units available (45 hammers). I will build and then immediately delete them. Production is 87 x 460% = 400. Overflow is 355 gold per turn, better than the payoff on wealth building. I'll do this for a while to build up my wealth reserves. Of course, I can switch from priest to scientist specialists to speed up research at the cost of gold (7.05 beakers at a cost of 11.2 gold).
Turn 277 (1285 AD): Railroad in. Start Communism. Upgrade grenadiers to machine guns. Also, build railroads where useful.
Turn 283 (1315 AD): Communism in. Start Democracy. Build intel center and use Great Spy to build Scotland Yard. This won't allow me to match the AI's espionage, but it should encourage them to invest a larger share of their commerce in it.
Turn 285 (1325 AD): Great general settled.
Turn 288 (1340 AD): Democracy in. Start Fascism. Build security bureau.
Turn 289 (1345 AD): Great engineer settled.
Turn 292 (1360 AD): Fascism in. Research Electricity. Settle great general.
Turn 301 (1405 AD): Electricity in. Start Radio. Build Broadway.
Turn 306 (1430 AD): Great general settled.
Turn 309 (1445 AD): Great prophet settled.
Turn 312 (1460 AD): Radio in. Research Combustion. Build Christo Redentor, Eiffel Tower, and Rock and Roll.

The city screen at this point:

radio.JPG

My machine guns, all with 600+ experience:

machine_guns.JPG

With 6-9 first strikes, I'm not worried about them dying to anything.

The save at this point:

View attachment mwilliam AD-1460.CivBeyondSwordSave
 

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With the number of first strike units you have it is a shame the AI doesn't build more flank 2 units to take them down(imune to first strikes...).
 
They built quite a lot of flankers, almost all of the AI cavalry get flanking 2.

Anyway for people wanting to try the challenge here is a spoiler that makes your life a lot easier and is probably necessary to winning:

Spoiler :
If you take the goody hut closest to the city with your starting warrior you get mining, if you move him then south to the next hut you get masonry and if you move him afterwards to the goody hut at the top of the screen you get bronceworking. You have to follow this order though, else the random numbers won´t match correctly.
 
this is an interesting game you have set up, but something is just not adding up for me after trying it a few times and failing. First, it appears no enemy units have entered through the mountains for you until something like 60+ turns into the game... this just does not happen in my games. Stacks of several different AIs start swarming through the mountain pass much earlier than that for me, well before I could have Bronze Working and the copper hooked up, even beelining for it from the beginning of the game. Yet you somehow have the Great Wall and Pyramids and other things built at this point? I think getting BW from a hut must be the explanation, if nothing else. But I still don't understand why the timing of enemy attacks is so much longer for your game.
 
Oyzar, the first strikes are of limited value against mounted troops, but the drill promotions really shine against the trebuchet swarms, limiting collateral damage. The cuirassiers/cavalry attack afterward against full-strength (or nearly so) units.

Turinturambar, getting techs (useful ones) from the first 3 huts is crazy. That would make it a lot easier (CS slingshot would be a sure thing). I thought I was lucky to get BW from my fifth hut.

LlamaCat, I suspect the AI behavior is highly random, both at the beginning and later on. I actually would have preferred some earlier attacks to beef up my defenders. The worst case is for Shaka to wait for a truly massive army to attack in one big push. As for hut popping techs, I won't deny that you need to get something to have a reasonable shot. Fortunately, there are several huts available (and no barbs). If the AIs got techs and you didn't, that could explain why they attacked before you were ready.
 
it's not random - the save should work the same each time with these settings for always war diety... what turn were you first attacked and didn't you have massive stacks coming at you at some point?
 
1465 AD to 1750 AD, 73 turns

Things took a turn for the worse in the final stage of my conquest preparations due to AI interference, both in terms of sabotage (annoyingly frequent from this point on) and aerial bombing by precocious Hammurabi.

My factory blew up while building Cristo Redentor, so I had to stop to replace it.

Turn 318 (1490 AD): Cristo Redentor finished, so I revolt to Emancipation and Pacifism since I am getting no current use out of Caste System.
Turn 319 (1495 AD): Combustion in. Research Industrialism and Plastic.
Turn 321 (1505 AD): Great general settled.
Turn 323 (1515 AD): Legendary culture achieved. Also, stop Rock&Roll to replace sabotaged library. Also put public transportation in build queue because of unhealthiness. I didn't think it was possible with the National Park, but it definitely is.
Turn 326 (1530 AD): Great prophet settled.
Turn 328 (1540 AD): Revolt to Theocracy. Start building samurai. These have 29 exp, just enough for 6 promotions, city raider 1-3 and drill 2-4. These will be the backbone of my invasion force when upgraded to mech infantry.
Turn 331 (1555 AD): With Industrialization in, build industrial park.
Turn 344 (1620 AD): Plastics in, research Flight, Drama, and Computers.
Turn 345 (1625 AD): Great prophet settled. At this point, I have 102 base hammers of production. With multipliers, that is 469 hammers per turn. I've never gotten 100 base hammers before, and I would have thought it impossible.

super_production.jpg

I could get 10 more base hammers running Universal Suffrage (and 48 more total hammers by also running State Property). But that would be silly.

Turn 360 (1700 AD): Great general settled. Revolt to Free Religion, since I no longer need the Theocracy bonus (I'll lose all excess exp when upgrading, so I only need just enough for 6 promotions).
Turn 367 (1714 AD): Computers in (goodbye Angkor Wat). Research Robotics and Rifling, my last techs.
Turn 368 (1716): Great prophet settled.

Soon after this, Hammurabi shows up with a sizable airforce, bombing key improvements, most importantly my iron and oil. The loss of iron makes it impossible to build samurai. The loss of oil makes it impossible to build fighters, the only units capable of inhibiting the air assaults. I built a total of six fighters (they kept getting shot down) and two workers (to help rebuild improvements). Just to add to the fun, a spy blows up my factory again. These acts cost me 10 potential samurai. I think it is very bad luck that one of my neighbors got Flight in the early 18th century.

The following picture shows the airforce I had to contend with:

airforce.JPG

It isn't the only late tech Hammurabi gets. In turn 381 (1742 AD) Hammurabi builds the UN. This is far worse than the fighters. The AIs love each other (mutual military struggle and similar personality). A vote for diplomatic victory is likely to result in a win for somebody. That makes razing the UN Headquarters the #1 priority in my coming war. The headquarters is in Machu Pichu. At the time, I have no idea where that is, but I will learn that it is on the far side of Hammurabi's empire. Wonderful.

The clock is ticking, but I'm almost there.

Turn 384 (1748 AD): The penultimate turn. In preparation, I revolt to Nationalism, Emancipation, and Theocracy. Why Nationalism? For the draft! I no longer need to do research and I have insane production which is no longer needed (no more buildings and no need for overflow converted into cash). In fact, I ramp the espionage slider to 90% so I have just enough beakers to get Rifling. Drafting will allow me to produce more than 1 unit per turn. Ultimately, I'll draft 20 times before the end. This turn I get a musket for 1 pop that will promote to a mech next turn. In retrospect, I should have started drafting a few turns earlier to get the 1 pop price.
Turn 385 (1750 AD): Rifling in. Research Archery, HBR, etc. (whatever is cheapest since I don't care). Espionage at 100%. Draft. Revolt to Organized Religion, Bureaucracy, and Serfdom. Upgrade everything to mech infantry. Build theater since I'll be using the culture slider soon.

At the beginning of the turn, I have 43,186 gold. The upgrade cost for 51 samurai and 1 musket is 31,145. I have gold left over which will go to waste. Recall that AI interference cost me the opportunity to build 10 more sams. Even so, I over-saved by 6,000. I could have built a few more sams (although with only drill 3) rather that chariots, but it was hard to estimate precisely.

I plan on exploiting Cristo Redentor very hard in the coming turns, revolting almost every turn for the rest of the game. Even post-patch, you can draft and use high-speed workers full time while only running Nationalism and Serfdom half of the time.

It is finally time to break out and hit the AIs. Leading the charge are my four warlord mechs. They all have every possible promotion except interception (and they'll all get it eventually). The following show the full might of my warlords when fully promoted:

warlord_complete.JPG
warlord_complete2.JPG

That is a total of 40 promotions. I'm confident that it is impossible to get more than that number on any type of unit. And I've got four of these guys to clear out the toughest defenders.

The save game at this point:

View attachment mwilliam AD-1750.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
Fun fun fun. Keep it coming. Love these games.
 
1752 to 1788, 19 turns: The Breakout

With my new super army, I'm ready to throttle overly advanced Hammurabi. Just one problem:

breakout.jpg

These guys (64 of them) are in the way. The only sure attackers I've got are the four warlords. Thankfully, Boudica and Monty are happy to throw away those units on a suicide assault this turn, so I'll only need to clean up the stragglers.

Before discussing the invasion, I want to talk about my city plans. I don't need commerce anymore and I'm downsizing the population through the draft. I replace all of the towns with watermills. After I build a couple of them, I switch to State Property, which boosts food and production. Also, I switch to Police State to limit war weariness and boost production further. I achieve a 395% total bonus to production when running Bureaucracy (is this a record?), which is good considering that base hammers plummet with the population loss.

My other civics oscillate: Nationhood for one turn to draft two times. The rest of the time either Bureaucracy or Vassalage (not at first, but I eventually realize I don't have a need for Bureaucracy). Serfdom for one turn to run high-speed workers for two turns (to build the mills); Emancipation is used the remainder of the time for the happiness.

Air attacks are soon neutralized, but espionage continues. My factory is destroyed for the 3rd time on turn 398 (1776 AD). Thanks to OR and carryover hammers, I can rebuild it in one turn, only to have it blow up again on turn 399. That is so unfair. It takes two turns to rebuild this time. Clearly, if the AIs were more proactive at sabotage than they are, OCC would be impossible at high levels, since you would always be locked into rebuilding stuff and could never do anything new. All the AIs will die with huge espionage points against me (10,000+ in most cases). Imagine the possibilities.

My warplan is simple. Take out Hammurabi's northern cities (the aerial threats) with my main army. One general stays to oversee that (and heal the wounded), while the other three do deep penetration (thanks, commando) to find the key Incan cities, particularly Machu Pichu with the UN.

Speaking of the UN, Shaka is the Secretary General and calls for a resolution on trade. Lucky break. A diplomatic victory vote is likely game over as the Buddhist block should have the votes to win (presumably Genghis).

Machu Pichu is in the deep south, but I find it and start pecking away at its defenders with my generals. Luckily, Hammurabi is more concerned with his capital's security as shown below:

cuzco_defense.jpg

That is a lot of troops. Especially gunships (in the 18th century?). In a few turns, he starts building marines (but no tanks). By then it is too late though.

Turn 396 (1772 AD): A big year. My generals, attacking from far away, level Machu Pichu (bye bye UN). My main army razes Tiwanaku, the Buddhist shrine, and a lot of income for Hammy (probably why he could afford to tech so fast). Meanwhile, my northern general leads a small contingent of the army against Shaka's cities right on my border, to give me some breathing room.

My newly built mechs are promoted as 5 star, commando with pinch as the next promotion. These join the fight against Shaka, gradually bulking up that army, which advances slowly. My draftees can't get commando, so these are designated as the new pass defenders, sometimes jumping out to clear away nearby stragglers.

Are they needed on defense? Most of the AIs give up invasion plans after my breakout, but Monty is committed. He surprises me with a healthy attack force:

monty_attacks.jpg

Seeing it coming, I assemble the best defense I can, but most of my units are too far away to help. My fighters are helpful in bombing his troops as they approach, but fighters aren't great for that. They do injure all of his infantry before the assault. After the hordes vanquished previously, I don't take this too seriously, but that is a mistake:

after_monty_attack.jpg

All that is left are two near dead units, out of seven. This clearly shows the power of drill. None of my units in the pass have it. They are worn down by the CR cannons, then the dozens of cavalry (note that none of them have flanking!). Just four drill machine guns would have fared much better than these seven mechs.

Did I almost lose the game here? I doubt it. Monty did nearly take the pass (he failed to attack with his three garrison infantry, but I think they are classified as defensive units that the AI will never attack with). But unlike earlier, this would not have been the end. It would be hard to clear his battered units off my pass, but there is no way he would get the city. I can produce two defenders per turn (for 2 more turns), and I can upgrade the garrison warrior to a mech. I'm not that worried about pillaging. I have no towns to protect, and I'm not using all of my fat cross any longer (especially if I keep drafting defenders). My army isn't that far away either, so I could withdraw some units to clear him out. Note that Monty sent no medics with his invasion force.

Since I was talking about the heavy use of drafting, this is what it has done to Kyoto:

effect_of_draft.jpg

From 31 pop to 11 in 19 turns. I can still build a mech per turn with overflow. Moreover, the food surplus is huge (+32), allowing the pop to return quickly, so I can draft even more. The only downside is happiness. Unhappies are already at 43 and climbing fast. But I'm only at 10% culture, so I can take a lot more.

While dealing with Monty's attack, my city raider forces finish off Hammurabi in 1784 (turn 402) and move on to Genghis. One down, five to go.
 
One thing to combat spy problem is to have a few spies asleep in the city. also try running 10% espionage throughout the game, or at least later in. GREAT game so far! In my play from 1460 save is the AI broke through before I reached robotics. I'm not a Deity player at all. I'm trying a similar game on noble and have learned A LOT from your game here. good job! no save from the last game.
Cripp
 
wow quite an adventure. I took your save and tried a new game but on Emperor setting this time... I got to the 1800s but eventually a large stack was able to break open the pass. I had a much larger stack guarding the pass but I probably wasn't promoting them right and the maintenance was more of course.

something I eventually did was build a circle of forts by the mountains and load them with some planes... I never had the air attack problems you had, because I got flight before everyone else. Of course, I had serious other issues as the consequence of not taking your route.

It's interesting that you were able to build all those wonders, and going back through your report I see it is probably becuase you neglected so many early techs like Animal Husbandry and Archery, which I snapped up early. (my conventional thinking was to get archers for city, hills defense! but of course your very specific plan to use a couple Great General axemen was the way to go, I see that now)

One thing I did with my Great Spy was to have him circle the entire map scouting out the land, before eventually coming back to the city - he will never get caught and I thought had limited use so early in the game.

I actually spy bombed Shaka and Hammuribi and stole several of their techs .... but of course that cost me hammers to build spies and that detracted from my building wonders! and I was playing two levels down.

I encourage people to try this scenario, and save it in worldbuilder at a lower level if Deity is too much. I think in your game you really need to think out all the tech paths as you have, and I'm just too lazy to calculate all this business.

It was fun getting all those great generals..
 
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