Deity Challenge #10 - Maya on pangaea

[tommynt]

playing this now to the end - i ll go into space sub turn 200 for sure - my goal is to be there sub turn 190.
Expecting to peak at 2000 bakkers +100 faith + 500 g/t in turn 180

I did record few sessions - but honestly watching them ll not do very much for average joe - the way I play 2 turns can take 3+ hours.

Guess I ll post little go through with screenshots.

No reloading and no ai abusing btw - well maybe different definitions bout abusing are out there - but all wars were iniciated by ai.
Arabia backstabbing after 100 turns of beneficial friendship ...

overal diplomacy seems so brokken that bothering with it seem just pointles.

We got a 4 man alliance going for like 60 turns while 2 others are kinda isolated and out of nowhere i get denounced and dowed from 2 civs same time

 

[Grendeldef]

I did record few sessions - but honestly watching them ll not do very much for average joe - the way I play 2 turns can take 3+ hours.

Clearly patience is a virtue but apparently it does also require some infinite time to materialize. I for one am more than slightly curious how one can spent an hour & half for a turn assuming that the pc isn't a 386sx & 3 course meal with comprehensive wine list is not included.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Clearly patience is a virtue but apparently it does also require some infinite time to materialize. I for one am more than slightly curious how one can spent an hour & half for a turn assuming that the pc isn't a 386sx & 3 course meal with comprehensive wine list is not included.

20+ units (2 or 3 different armies on different fronts) with several puppets to manage, plus trades and CSs, can easily take an hour for me and its got nothing to do with pc power. But then again im well into the 200s before I have such empires, not tommynt's t100 type efficiency.

I was about to say 'how did you do it with no dows from yourself?' but then i realized it's this maya game where Ottomans/Celts/India will be in your face ready with a dow anyway.

 

[Light Cleric]

I would also be curious to see how that much time can be spent

20+ units (2 or 3 different armies on different fronts) with several puppets to manage, plus trades and CSs, can easily take an hour for me and its got nothing to do with pc power. But then again im well into the 200s before I have such empires, not tommynt's t100 type efficiency.

I was about to say 'how did you do it with no dows from yourself?' but then i realized it's this maya game where Ottomans/Celts/India will be in your face ready with a dow anyway.

See, I just plow through all that stuff super quickly now, but I also don't give two flying you-know-whats about fast finish times. I get more fun from winning a game and moving onto the next one to see what's in store. Some people enjoy playing a game a lot for a super fast finish time. It's just a matter of taste imo

The real time consumer for me is the times between turns. 7 Deity AI civs + 12-16 CS(depending on how many the AI killed lol) each have to move and they all have HUUUUUUGE piles of units. It takes so freaking long.

Also you don't manage puppets anyway, that's the point of a puppet

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Also you don't manage puppets anyway, that's the point of a puppet

tell that to a puppeteer. pulling strings is quite the task. and i just cant put workers on auto. i dont trust their priorities. it takes me awhile to get the roads and trades up and then later i'll annex one and add even more tedium to it.

 

[Light Cleric]

You don't put the workers on auto, but puppets take little more than "Do you have a bunch of trading posts + a trade route?"

 

[Grendeldef]

I'll have to do some playing again and start timing the turn times but I refuse to manage puppets without a sexchange & a working FoY.

I could, reluctantly, understand an hour+ turn times if the game was lagging for every single click but 10mins planning, 20mins for moving 50 units still leaves another half an hour for messing up with 16 CSs & screwing the plans of 7 AIs - there's only so much one can sell or buy on each turn. If constantly knocking on AIs door gives better deals then fine but it still seems excessive to me.
Surely a single eventful turn can take at least twice the average time but an hour+ average long before T180 seems rather odd.

The game still looks pretty to me but I have no desire to look mostly static screen much more than I actually have to especially as I'm yet to find a pic of an attractive woman inside the game.

 

[The Pilgrim]

I think (hope? ) 2 turns per 3+ hours is an exaggeration. It's Tommy, you know.

In case it's not... well... I'm sure missing the times when I could spend so much time playing video games. So all I can do is being very envious.

 

[Grendeldef]

I think (hope? ) 2 turns per 3+ hours is an exaggeration. It's Tommy, you know.

In case it's not... well... I'm sure missing the times when I could spend so much time playing video games. So all I can do is being very envious.

Had it been most anyone but Tommy I'd have ignored this but in this case there might actually be a deeply hidden point to all this and therefore something to learn from. However, I can't foresee anything so beneficial to the my gaming that I'd be willing to sacrifice an 1½ hours per turn - I could & would rather watch a football match in that time - but it doesn't much diminish my interest on the matter.

 

[jeespoks]

I thought I spend too much time on turns since it takes sometimes five minutes or maybe even longer to finish a turn

Tommy, isn't this "2 turns per 3+ hours" a bit contradictory to your sig "check you for optimal gameplay for fast finish times"

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

You don't put the workers on auto, but puppets take little more than "Do you have a bunch of trading posts + a trade route?"

It takes me 20 minutes to pick out a cereal in the breakfast aisle. I have to read the labels, haha.

I tend to forecast where the roads will be for the next city im gonna take. there's usually more than one good way to plan a road for the possible next route.

and i watched some of tommy's ethiopia gotm video. he does an awful lot of clicking in the city management screen. i dont know if he's just changing his mind on what to produce or if there's some trick to it but he's constantly switching production and citizen tiles. pre-t50 he's taking 5 minutes a turn which is more than i would expect for a guy so familiar with the game.

 

[tommynt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommynt View Post
I did record few sessions - but honestly watching them ll not do very much for average joe - the way I play 2 turns can take 3+ hours.
Clearly patience is a virtue but apparently it does also require some infinite time to materialize. I for one am more than slightly curious how one can spent an hour & half for a turn assuming that the pc isn't a 386sx & 3 course meal with comprehensive wine list is not included.

well obviously i missed a 0 - 7000 seconds (one video length for me) = 15-20 turns - at least in war and deal intense midgame.

But I can imagine one could micro even more as i did ..

 

[The Pilgrim]

Had it been most anyone but Tommy I'd have ignored this but in this case there might actually be a deeply hidden point to all this and therefore something to learn from. However, I can't foresee anything so beneficial to the my gaming that I'd be willing to sacrifice an 1½ hours per turn - I could & would rather watch a football match in that time - but it doesn't much diminish my interest on the matter.

If I start thinking about all good things I could've done with all thousands of hours I spent playing Civ games, I'll need more alcohol than human body can handle.
Granted, MM takes a lot of time, and I know because I'm rather slow myself (much slower than LC, for example). Mid game wars take a lot of time, trading takes a lot of time (especially when you're trying to make money out of air ), still not that much time. However, I know some folks that are playing with calculator in hand and crunching numbers on each hammer, beaker and culture point. Try to beat that.

 

[Unresolved]

Damn, 3 hours per turn x-x. That's nearly a whole game for me . Though I guess Deity takes me a lot longer than normal, so maybe 1/3rd of a game.

 

[tommynt]

and i watched some of tommy's ethiopia gotm video. he does an awful lot of clicking in the city management screen. i dont know if he's just changing his mind on what to produce or if there's some trick to it but he's constantly switching production and citizen tiles. pre-t50 he's taking 5 minutes a turn which is more than i would expect for a guy so familiar with the game.

the clicking is usually changing tiles so that food growth exactly matches the food need to grow.
So if I grow at +15 and need 35 food to grow - i will usually micro 1 prod tile to a food tile. But if a 4 food tile is available I might might keep using the mine for 1 turn and just switch a 3 food into a 4 food to have +16 and micro the turn before grow the mine away to have +19 and with production focus the mine still get used.

All this gets way more complex for bigger ciites were 10 more food for 2 turns might be needed and one have to think if microing all production away to grow a turn faster is really worth it.

Or imagine food matching the food needed perfecly - u can micro a mine away for a specialist slot if no other mine is available.

But all this have to be planed ahead like 2-4 turns - meaning microing a fast growing new city or cap is needed kinda every turn

Early on i might also micro to finish something in a specific amount of turn - but as hammers overflow that happens more rarly..

Stuff like this can make a difference of 5-10% in hammers in my experience - adding up over the game ..
Might sound complicated but is pretty easy once u understand the principle.

Later on I might have to make up my mind wheater to use specilists, food or production - sometimes really hard decisions ... and most anyoing is to micro food tiles into production if happyness drops to 0-2 and no happy res source seems available - espacially if the next turns things look better again and tiles have to be switched back.

and most anyoing are expering deals or dows bringing happynes below 0 making all the micro useless and cutting research by 15% - that happens way too often for me ...

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

well, at best i micromanage the food tiles after i get aqueducts to max the carryover (based on happiness). ive tried a few times pre-aqueducts but I'm never sure how much is carried over. watching you change production from scout to work boat or work boat to scout is what i wasnt sure of. were you changing your mind or maxing production turns based on the worked tiles?

 

[tommynt]

well, at best i micromanage the food tiles after i get aqueducts to max the carryover (based on happiness)

dont really understand that - as far as I know there is no food carried over but the growth just starts at 40%

watching you change production from scout to work boat or work boat to scout is what i wasnt sure of. were you changing your mind or maxing production turns based on the worked tiles?

dont really remember that, but sounds like a basic decision wheater scouting with a scout (who can pop huts and maybe even clear camp) is needed or scouting with a workboat for a few turn might be a good idea and add it later to a resource.
I btw really dont scout much with trimeres - on continent looking map i might not bother with em at all - scouts and warris have so much more uses and 4 of them are just way more efficient as 2 trimeres. Espacially since they dont die to barbs anymore

 

[Grendeldef]

It takes me 20 minutes to pick out a cereal in the breakfast aisle. I have to read the labels, haha.

Damn it, dear Hammer - you really need to shop in a smaller store with less items to choose from. Apart from Mid Summer & Xmas shopping I very rarely spent 20 minutes in any shop and shopping with a wife or a gf unit is bad idea from starters - it can only go wrong.

If I start thinking about all good things I could've done with all thousands of hours I spent playing Civ games, I'll need more alcohol than human body can handle.

I'll drink to that & admit that the line of thinking isn't very fruitful at all.

However, I know some folks that are playing with calculator in hand and crunching numbers on each hammer, beaker and culture point. Try to beat that.

I'm an oldschooler and rely on the Vorderman method. As much fun as number crunching is it takes some of the feeling away from the game and while I'm keen on winning whether it happens on 220,240 or 260 is next to irrelevant.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

dont really understand that - as far as I know there is no food carried over but the growth just starts at 40%

I thought that if you have 10 food worked and you get a new citizen, 4 (40%) of that 10 food is carried over to the next citizen. so the turn before the citizen is born i will shift to all my food tiles so the carryover is larger. then ill shift back to other tiles. maybe ive operated on how it works incorrectly all this time. i thought general % growth was like if I have 10 food but I have 20% modifier I really have 12 food each turn but no carryover food is counted.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Damn it, dear Hammer - you really need to shop in a smaller store with less items to choose from. Apart from Mid Summer & Xmas shopping I very rarely spent 20 minutes in any shop and shopping with a wife or a gf unit is bad idea from starters - it can only go wrong.

Sending a wife or a gf to do the shopping solves all possible decision making related problems. Win win for everybody.

I'm an oldschooler and rely on the Vorderman method. As much fun as number crunching is it takes some of the feeling away from the game and while I'm keen on winning whether it happens on 220,240 or 260 is next to irrelevant.

I'm in the same boat with you. Are you surprised?

dont really understand that - as far as I know there is no food carried over but the growth just starts at 40%

I thought that if you have 10 food worked and you get a new citizen, 4 (40%) of that 10 food is carried over to the next citizen. so the turn before the citizen is born i will shift to all my food tiles so the carryover is larger. then ill shift back to other tiles. maybe ive operated on how it works incorrectly all this time. i thought general % growth was like if I have 10 food but I have 20% modifier I really have 12 food each turn but no carryover food is counted.

Actually, all food is carried over, i.e. no food is lost upon growth with aqueducts or without them. With aqueducts each growth step requirement is reduced by 40%. But it's not 40% of a current step, but of the previous step.

For example: you have a city at size X, that generates +30 per turn , it takes 100 to grow and there is 90 in the food bucket already.
Next turn the city grows to size X+1. Without aqueduct you'll have 20 in the bucket (90+30-100). With aqueduct you'll have 60 in the bucket (regular overflow (90+30-100) + (0.4*100) aqueduct bonus ).
Too bad the game doesn't provide a proper explanation. Civilopedia entry for aqueduct is rather idiotic, I must say.