Deity Challenge #12 - The Celts on Pangaea

[The Pilgrim]

There're lots of things I left out but I'm willing to share if asked or hinted - I'm just too busy to write novel length play-throughs (lazy is the other adjective well suited here).

I like your novels a lot, so keep 'em comin.

Well, with RA's or without them, you had tech parity and higher bpt woudn't have served you in any way, so my rhetorical question remains.

Tech leading Korea tends to have a defensive spy & I didn't wanna risk my 007 getting killed.

Yep. I didn't even try to plan my JB (and I do mean Justin Bieber ) in Seoul, planted him in Busan instead. RIP, Jimmy. However, ironically enough, his replacement that was sent to Korean capital purely for LoS, managed to steal right before it was captured. Don't remember what was that exactly, but something good. Maybe even Advanced Ballistics.

 

[Grendeldef]

Yep. I didn't even try to plan my JB (and I do mean Justin Bieber ) in Seoul, planted him in Busan instead. RIP, Jimmy. However, ironically enough, his replacement that was sent to Korean capital purely for LoS, managed to steal right before it was captured. Don't remember what was that exactly, but something good. Maybe even Advanced Ballistics.

I had a defensive, promoted, spy in Edinburgh, one in Copenhagen until Harald & Augustus started to play ping pong with it, one in banana republic of Kuala Lumpur to keep a favourable government in power and one in Rome after Augustus chose Order & bulbed Advanced Bollocksticks and targeted me.
I had low chance of stealing anything and next to nothing gained by rigging but I did want to see who & when was gonna attack me - all in all very defensive spy game from my part.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Hm... I seldom use defensive spies. In extremely close science race I might. But how often does this happen? On immortal I don't care if AI steals from me. On deity if I'm behind in tech, I have nothing to lose, if I'm ahead it's a healthy lead usually, so again, I don't really care and go for CS instead.
In this game I almost ignored espionage. Sejong was miles ahead of me and I was miles ahead of everyone else. Used the spies mainly for LoS and some rigging in Ragusa since had it flipped, it would've required more military attention that I was willing to give it. In total I stole 2-3 garbage medieval techs and that one towards the end.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

you could use a defensive spy for the diplo actions (forgiving/not forgiving), whichever you'd benefit from. im not so savvy to keep good track that late in the game but it's the only reason i can come up with if you dont care about the thefts. i assume they will still hold weight as diplo actions.

 

[The Pilgrim]

you could use a defensive spy for the diplo actions (forgiving/not forgiving), whichever you'd benefit from. im not so savvy to keep good track that late in the game but it's the only reason i can come up with if you dont care about the thefts. i assume they will still hold weight as diplo actions.

I know, but I think these modifiers are weak and have little impact. At least the positive, the negative is bold red. But even with negative seems like AI lets it slide. Just as with telling it to get lost after bullying CS.

 

[Grendeldef]

Hm... I seldom use defensive spies. In extremely close science race I might. But how often does this happen? On immortal I don't care if AI steals from me. On deity if I'm behind in tech, I have nothing to lose, if I'm ahead it's a healthy lead usually, so again, I don't really care and go for CS instead.

Excellent, we've finally found a variable practice which can be used as a seed of healthy, violent disagreements
Anyway, depending slightly on the wars currently going I more often than not leave the 1st spy to defend until promoted. AI is extremely keen on stealing from me and as their spies are more devious, my capital's bpt is better than anyone elses by the time I could make my 1st steal I have twice promoted spy and one or more disheartened apologetic AIs nearby - a fruitful ground for offensive spying.
From starters is more of getting my spy promoted than actually preventing AI from getting anything from me. On the other hand if one lets AI to catch something the stealing streak will be endless.

In this game I almost ignored espionage. Sejong was miles ahead of me and I was miles ahead of everyone else. Used the spies mainly for LoS and some rigging in Ragusa since had it flipped, it would've required more military attention that I was willing to give it. In total I stole 2-3 garbage medieval techs and that one towards the end.

LoS is my main function for spies later on with occasional rigging helping to save some money. In this game I had a spy in Copenhagen for long without anything to steal and two turns after the latest info I see bombers in his cities - I'd have love to steal flight some 15 turns earlier than I actually did. This time I rerouted my teching plan and it paid off but it's still mildly annoying to come off empty handed.
Usually there isn't anything worthy of stealing later in the game but having a spy in 2-3 borderline cities is extremely helpful - the other option is that my newly recruited spies are sipping Cuba Libres in nearby bar because I neglected their 1st assignments.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

I know, but I think these modifiers are weak and have little impact. At least the positive, the negative is bold red. But even with negative seems like AI lets it slide. Just as with telling it to get lost after bullying CS.

yeah, i was never sure how subtle or impacting those responses were but it was just a thought. i find it satisfying to kill spies so i like to keep one there even though they might be more useful in a contested CS. just seeing the AI grovel a little is worth it. I wish one of my responses was "Would you like a little bacon with all that egg on your face?"

 

[The Pilgrim]

Excellent, we've finally found a variable practice which can be used as a seed of healthy, violent disagreements

Thank heavens! My bat got covered with rust and I almost lost hope!

Anyway, depending slightly on the wars currently going I more often than not leave the 1st spy to defend until promoted. AI is extremely keen on stealing from me and as their spies are more devious, my capital's bpt is better than anyone elses by the time I could make my 1st steal I have twice promoted spy and one or more disheartened apologetic AIs nearby - a fruitful ground for offensive spying.
From starters is more of getting my spy promoted than actually preventing AI from getting anything from me. On the other hand if one lets AI to catch something the stealing streak will be endless.

Well, in few times I've tried to use counter spies they were utterly useless and failed miserably at their mission. But maybe that's because I don't promote them. Admittedly, I don't really know how to max out espionage potential. Don't even know if there is anything to max out in the first place.

In this game I had a spy in Copenhagen for long without anything to steal and two turns after the latest info I see bombers in his cities - I'd have love to steal flight some 15 turns earlier than I actually did. This time I rerouted my teching plan and it paid off but it's still mildly annoying to come off empty handed.

Indeed. It's very frustrating. More than once I left the spies hanging around for decades in case something will pop up in the future. Makes no sense, however, they can't really contribute anywhere else, so why not... Another reason why I tend to somewhat neglect espionage. I hope it will get reworked in BNW. In its current flat and luck dependent state it adds very little to the game, in my opinion.

the other option is that my newly recruited spies are sipping Cuba Libres in nearby bar because I neglected their 1st assignments.

That's the best option. Towards the end I become so lazy, they often get unlimited vacations.

 

[tommynt]

think u guys should use defense scouts, they lvl very fast catching other spies ..

and with lvl 3 scouts u can even make revolution in CS or steal fast or whatever

 

[The Pilgrim]

yeah, i was never sure how subtle or impacting those responses were but it was just a thought. i find it satisfying to kill spies so i like to keep one there even though they might be more useful in a contested CS. just seeing the AI grovel a little is worth it. I wish one of my responses was "Would you like a little bacon with all that egg on your face?"

I don't know for sure either. I agree though, telling them to shove it is very liberating. At first I was hesitant about doing that on deity, but no more. Now I am free!

 

[The Pilgrim]

think u guys should use defense scouts, they lvl very fast catching other spies ..

and with lvl 3 scouts u can even make revolution in CS or steal fast or whatever

That just doesn't seem to work for me. I've never had a successful coup with 85% chance. I have better chances with 67% or 73% or whatever. And messages about stolen Masonry or Trapping or something else along these lines in 120's-130's are even more aggravating with defensive spy. But you two convinced me. I'll try to give them more of my precious attention in the future. We'll see.

 

[Browd]

think u guys should use defense scouts, they lvl very fast catching other spies ..

and with lvl 3 scouts u can even make revolution in CS or steal fast or whatever

These are my most common uses. When I'm first into Renaissance, I defend to level up my initial spy (preferably 2 levels) and then cycle subsequent spies through defensive duty to level up, with promoted spies generally going into cultural CSs (sometimes mercantiles with porcelain or other unique luxuries, if I'm desperate for happiness) to rig elections and/or do coups.

If I'm not first into Renaissance, first spy goes into a target secondary city to level up through spying, and then same pattern as above.

 

[Moriarte]

That's so luck dependant though. (not that i am complaining) I mean, few days ago i played a game where i was lucky to gain level 3 early. From then on i coup'ed 7 or 8 CS, which was REALLY helpful , considering it was a deity game. Tried that tactic again yesterday only to lose two superspies to 85% success chance..

 

[Grendeldef]

Coups are something that I never use spies for - I have so little trust in AI supervised RNG that it just doesn't seem worth the risk even if I had an extra spy(ies). Last time I tried a coup was last June and quite a few games has been played since so my experience in the area is very limited.

 

[The Pilgrim]

That's so luck dependant though. (not that i am complaining) I mean, few days ago i played a game where i was lucky to gain level 3 early. From then on i coup'ed 7 or 8 CS, which was REALLY helpful , considering it was a deity game. Tried that tactic again yesterday only to lose two superspies to 85% success chance..

I maybe couped 3 or 4 times in total, so I feel fully entitled to complain. It just doesn't work for me. My Civ5 is broken! Give me a new copy!
Leveling up the first spy is relatively easy by stealing classical junk. By the time I get to the Industrial, though, there is no cheap techs left. If there is anything to steal at all, it's rather expensive and for a rookie takes forever. Maybe I'll try to counter with second spy. Didn't have much success with that before, but also can't say I was very persistent.

 

[Maxym]

I also have very little luck coupig, even at 85%. I do use it when I need to stop someone getting their Diplo win, and don't care if I lose the spy anyway.

I send the first one to one or two most juicy targets as soon as it becomes available, and if I can get two quick steals, that spy can then do a lot of good. I often get flight that way if I am behind. It does suck when my best laid plans bite the dust with the deceased operative

I lost my spies at those crucial moments in both DC 12 and 10.

I usually put my 2nd spy in cap to level him up, but sometimes it is getter to get him there asap as when AI gets a few steals they got their promos and get on a Roll. 3rd and later guys go to CS missions, and if the counterspy is successful I switch him out as the new guys can then usually get their new guys.

 

[The Pilgrim]

I usually put my 2nd spy in cap to level him up, but sometimes it is getter to get him there asap as when AI gets a few steals they got their promos and get on a Roll. 3rd and later guys go to CS missions, and if the counterspy is successful I switch him out as the new guys can then usually get their new guys.

That's more or less what I was doing but abandoned this path in favor of more rigging. I will try again though. I'm almost ready (mentally ) for the next challenge.

 

[Grendeldef]

I'm almost ready (mentally ) for the next challenge.

It's been 2 weeks since I posted this one so others might be anxiously waiting a new one, too. I assume Tommy is still on it and Old Peter has probably killed half of the BNW civs to extinction while waiting.

 

[The Pilgrim]

It's been 2 weeks since I posted this one so others might be anxiously waiting a new one, too. I assume Tommy is still on it and Old Peter has probably killed half of the BNW civs to extinction while waiting.

I won't mind another day or two off, although yeah, for the sake of the rest, I'll suck it up. They were very patient with us.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Could the next one just use G+K? I don't have all the other DLC.