Deity Challenge #12 - The Celts on Pangaea

[Grendeldef]

I played some 100 turns more still with Utopia project in sight but I had to give up the original plan of sticking with my 4 cities as the peace loving trio Alex, Isabella & Darius were very keen on loving me to death. Still no annexed or sold cities but Persepolis & Athens puppeted as well as one space filler from Darius who left for better hunting grounds around T130.
It feels very odd gimping oneself in every possible way but I must admit this is refreshingly interesting. Not much of an army, beakers, hammers but tons of suspense while waiting for the next invasion attempt. To have a peace of mind much better position for a win I could have wiped Darius off early but I wanted a different sort of game.
After Tradition, Liberty for a GA and then Piety apart from temple gold. Freedom opened T168 & finished T200. Managed to built SisC and Louvre at some point and more surprisingly LoTP @T180 - didn't bother with it earlier as I seemed to be behind in tech as expected.
Korea is in tech lead but small while Isabella, Augustus & Harald are roughly equal. The most common activity is others taking endless bribes from my CS without any troops anywhere near & Babs chain couping the cult CSs. Alex is getting beaten into oblivion by Isabella.

My next move will be a step into a corner & hide there gathering cobweb until inevitable DoW from any or all of the beloved neighbours. The alternative would killing the Danes but I'm genuinely interested in seeing as warless game as possible but as Old Peter amongst others said cult vc is screwed if played as it's 'supposed' to be played - peacefully.
Obviously I've made mistakes in size of black holes along the way but still I feel I'm limping around blind folded and being constantly overlapped by the others. Persian pikes @ T70 while in GA is the scariest AI unit in the game.

 

[Maxym]

Finally after three failed deity challenges and a few random deity science wins I got my first Domination victory ever at this level. It started out well and I was thinking I might roll this map quickly, with ghost bombers maybe.

Since I had GW I avoided arty and teched for oil and flight burning a few GS trying to catch up to Korea. After taking Alex in 140's I turned on Izzy and got halted by a horde of tercios, I figured I can grind my way to Madrid slowly as I still have not lost a single combat unit, and my XBs were getting logs and range.

But AIs had a different idea and while my whole army was busy, Korea the tech leader and Rome, a military leader DoWed simultaneously. It actually put a smile on my face

Finally they figured what's going on here, as Sejong was next on my list. I got peace with her and fought Korea to a standstil outside of Busan ( same place Primeval is getting his XBs and Gatlings shredded) and Romans east of Copenhagen on the river floodplains and later forest . I got oil hooked up with GG in tundra SW of cap, and built and rushed three ghost bombers, and after promoting the first one to city bombingrealized Busan will be outside of range, and same with next Roman city and the one they planted near marble SW of my cap, walled and reinforced quickly with a cannon and galleas. So one useles GWB and rest marginally useful as with only one promo and his city strength at 97 it was one sortie three turns healing . I was going nowhere fast.

I was running out of funds, and still running muskets and rifles against korean GWI, I had the tech but no cash. Finally Sejng cracked when I outteached him I think, and gave my half gold and 1/4 gpt deal. That turned things around, I saved the cash mostly, turned everyone on Rome, teched to bombers and pentagon and bulbed them with 2 GS and rushed it with GE and the game was turning around. After taking a Roman city settled at choke point on the peninsula leading to Rome for the 8th time, realized that even with bombers i am not crossing it soon against his GWI hordes, I took some of his gold and went after Sejong again. This time Busan and Seoul fell quickly and I split my forces to finish off Spain and Rome.

I paid Romans to attack Babylon, down to only two cities on mainland and a Roman victim for ages, hoping to get him to save me the trouble, but he was not doing his job. So I came with stealth and two nukes and few land units to cap cities. I him twice, and took first city on turn one and Rome to zero HP on turn two of the war, but I needed one more city to the north so I did not risk taking it. He sent such waves I had to bring nukes and units from Spanish front band nuke him twice more before I finally broke through. Spain was cakewalk and a good decision to leave till the end. And Babylon fell in three turns after getting nukes once too to speed it up. I even got my I can has nukes achievement, I thinkmi used them before but must have been offline. And never as many and in such game deciding fashion. Great game for all of us who don't roll all those Deity challenges as easily as you guys, thanks Grendeldef

 

[Grendeldef]

Great game for all of us who don't roll all those Deity challenges as easily as you guys, thanks Grendeldef

Thanks, but it's hard to take credit for just rolling an 'easy' map especially in series created by someone else.

Anyway, few turns more & @T250 I'm still in peace with all the AIs but not so much with myself - I'd like to bomb something. Something is about happen as Harald has been plotting against me for centuries, Sejong & Augustus denied a DoF & stopped paying full price. Isabella is still friendly but our modifiers has more red than Chinese Communist Party opening ceremony. Korea, Greece & Babylon are all down to one city so I'm not expecting a Korean settlement in Alpha Centauri any time soon.
In this rather awkward game I've somehow managed to climb into tech lead with Isabella & even my army is decent mainly because I've been fairly successfull in creating casus belli for everyone else. Slinghtly less successful as a peace emissary so quite a few CSs are no more.

Policywise Patronage filled and Liberty 2 short so this should end before anyone is in space and domination shouldn't either. Turns times are longish to wait but my actions take 15secs.
Current specs are roughly 101 happiness 730bpt, 460gpt, 1,1k cpt, 100 fpt & 8,7k cash so I'm not too worried even for multi DoW as but few of the CSs are my allies & they should keep AIs busy for a while.

I hope I'll find time later today to finish this as this has become much more interesting than it looked early on.

 

[Light Cleric]

101 happiness

I'm guessing Peace Loving?

 

[tommynt]

8,7k cash

why d u save all the cash?

Even when not aiming for totaly optimal gameplay seems saving that much just totaly "irrational".

I will just never understand why some people play "intentionaly bad".
As said, obviously not every1 does everything possible to win fast, but spending cash just seems so "easy to do"

 

[Grendeldef]

why d u save all the cash?

Even when not aiming for totaly optimal gameplay seems saving that much just totaly "irrational".

I will just never understand why some people play "intentionaly bad".
As said, obviously not every1 does everything possible to win fast, but spending cash just seems so "easy to do"

I didn't save all the cash but since there wasn't anything useful to spend it on it piles up and I rather waited for nukes. I didn't need any more units as I wasn't in war, my units were up-to-date, I already had more than enough CS allies and even losing those wouldn't make any difference on my policy timing and obviously happiness wasn't an issue. Cities already had everything even remotely useful and everyone else had at least one war going on so I didn't see a point to spread out cash just to avoid gathering it but if there was something I could've used it for to make a difference I'm more than willing to be enlightened.

 

[Grendeldef]

I'm guessing Peace Loving?

Excellent, but wrong guess. The immaculate religion extremely originally named as Grendel includes Desert Folklore for pantheon, RT for enhancing, Ceremonial Burial for founder & Cathedrals & +15% prod for the followers.

I also found out that making coffee creates limited time for finishing games so I build Utopia @T270.
The last set opened up very lively as Harald & Augustus chose Autocracy & therefore found a reason to denounce me. Harald wiped Sejong off, lost a couple of cities to Isabella, lost Copenhagen & recaptured it at least 7 times between T253-T265 and captured Tyre a turn after Rome allied with it.
Augustus started couping nearby CS with limited success and Alex was clearly feeling the unfriendly pressure of the rest of the world neither of which had much of anything to do with me. I finished Liberty T261 and UP took uneventful 9 turns to build. Nobody DoWed after all, Isabella got a nuke on T268 while Augustus just built Manhattan on T270. No one has Apollo as tech rate has been appalling for everyone, not just me.

Interesting game after all but seriously inferior to sci/dom however this was closer to what I'd like the game to be so I'll probably start doing more cult games while keeping all VCs open for the AI. A less fortunate starting position will change it harder and this time Uluru really was over the top.

The other thing was wonders which I managed to build enough while I was trailing in tech and I was lucky that Darius built CI so all GA pops gave nice extra turns. Later wonders were CR & Neuschwanstein. I had no coastal city for SOH and CNT was far beyond my teching but in contrast to normal game I built all nationals.

Spoiler :

 

[The Pilgrim]

Well, I've got the beastiest Sejong I've ever seen (personally).

After being just a little ahead in tech (5% at t120), once universities and other medieval buildings kicked in, he exploded. Hit modern on t165, completed Manhattan on t193. Guess I had it coming after calling him a pushover and a wuss too many times.

Congrats, Grendeldef and all other winners!

 

[The Pilgrim]

I think I'm too old for this.

My game turned out pretty crazy. The suspense at certain points was really sick.
Medieval wars are too tedious for my taste, so I waited till Dynamite to attack Alex. As expected, that was a mistake. He wasn't a problem, but Korea in the meanwhile grew into a beast and by the time my brand spanking new artillery marched into Athens, Koreans were ready to drop A-bombs. I had a decent bpt, not great but bearable for domination game, yet was lagging behind with 14-15% gap between us. It was too late for switching to Plastics. And if that's not enough, my spy got killed (of course ) trying to steal Flight from Busan. I used GS to beeline Radar and AT and paid Sejong to DoW everybody but Spain. Sort of desperation move, because as much as I didn't want to make him stronger, I wanted to face his super powerful advanced units even less. He entered Information era ~t215 and I still had 5 capitals to go. But, while I was panicking and moving riflemen and arties out of his planes' range, he moved all his nukes and two bombers in a range of my recently upgraded GWB. Obviously, I couldn't dare to dream about this scenario, but, AI is being AI. I DoWed (shamelessly traded gpt - sorry, if you lose your nukes in such idiotic way, you don't deserve to have 2k for replacements ) and took Sparta in single turn. 9 turns later Korea lacked 3 more cities (2 nuclear missiles helped a little ), including the capital. 15 more turns later it was left with 6 cities: 2 former CS, two former Danish cities, one Babylonian and one native, the crappiest of them all. Don't ask me what their troops were doing during this period, because I haven't seen any. Few lonely mg and infantry here and there and no air force whatsoever. At least they swallowed up the Danes. One capital less.
After that it was like chilling on the beach. Augustus entered Modern lately, the rest were still in the Industrial. Spain and Babylon, both down to one city each since ever, didn't put up any fight, and neither did Rome which I bribed to DoW crippled Sejong (like 10th time in this game) couple of turns earlier. Hubble and Rationalism finisher came too late, because frankly SB's were an overkill, although I got a GDR!

Highlights:

Spoiler :

 

[Grendeldef]

^Against all odds like Collins few decades ago - cool. It's always pleasing to drop a pre-emptive nuke & kill an AI's huge Air Force with 1550g - definitely money well spent.

I've read the thread through with pics this time & watched the PrimEval's videos up to ~T150 and the AI just doesn't seize to amaze me like Alex's CB/SW/LS while waiting GWBs to block the sun any second. AIs tech rate still has huge diversity unlike human preference for city locations - everyone seemed to settle on same 3 spots while the 4th near Uluru had some minor variations.

 

[tommynt]

I could've used it for to make a difference I'm more than willing to be enlightened.

750 bakkers is just so "slim" compared to turn time and other stats that I kind of cant imagine that u didnt do everything possible to maximise that.

All 4 cities had all science buildnings? If yes - conquer/anex more cities and buy science stuff there?

 

[valnas]

nice recap pilgrim. that sounds unreal, superpower just faceplants against long odds. AI

 

[AE_]

I managed to win this by a science victory at turn 251. It wasn't a very quick finish, but at least i managed to win without having to replay as i did for DC10.

I used a 4 city tradition strategy, and tried to have peace with my neighbors (except from stealing some workers in the beginning). But they were not very friendly, and I had several wars with Darius and Isabella.

As always, I was not aggressive enough when it comes to fighting. I will try to improve on this for future challenges to get quicker finish times and a higher success rate.

Spoiler :

 

[Grendeldef]

750 bakkers is just so "slim" compared to turn time and other stats that I kind of cant imagine that u didnt do everything possible to maximise that.

All 4 cities had all science buildnings? If yes - conquer/anex more cities and buy science stuff there?

Sure the beaker output isn't what it would be in a sci or dom game since I was only running a single sci specialist which was in Truro nor is there the obvious boosts from Rationalism or Order. I wasn't nor was there any need for maximizing science and it to have any meaningful difference it should've been done long before this. At this point there's no techs for increasing cpt in sight so focusing bpt seems rather pointless.

All 4 of my own cities have Rlabs & 3 of puppets seem to be building them. Had I annex any cities those would propably already have it but as I said earlier I wanted to avoid culture through conquering and/or money so I played as peacefully as possible apart from the pre T10 DoW against Darius just to see how things turn out.
I couldn't avoid few wars & conquering some cities by I kept it to minimum while sticking true to the original plan not annex anything. Pushing forward early on and conquering cities and this would've been just another sci/dom game with prolonged playing time - just the thing I wanted to avoid.

Apparently I only had 98 happiness here so the 101 was on next turn nor did it much more raise after that - peak was around 110.

Spoiler :

 

[The Pilgrim]

^Against all odds like Collins few decades ago - cool.

Yeah, but it's not so much of I won against all odds as it's the AI lost against all odds. I have mixed feelings about this game. The ending was obviously satisfying and I'm content with how I played. On the other hand, when I take a look at AI, what I see is not so pretty. How hard can it be to dismiss SS parts that are locked out and rebuild them in capital? Having such an overwhelming lead and still not being able to pull off a win is just very sad.

It's always pleasing to drop a pre-emptive nuke & kill an AI's huge Air Force with 1550g - definitely money well spent.

I didn't need nukes against air units, I used them to reduce the pop mainly. The whole Korea was conquered with 8 bombers, 3 RA and two cavalries. Sejong did bring a reinforcement A-bomb to the front at some point and by that set the order in which his cities were taken. Almaty caused me more troubles than he did. Very sad. I also had a spare nuke for Rome but didn't use it, SB's cruised like a hot knife through butter. Bombers/nukes/and definitely SB's are really broken against AI.

I've read the thread through with pics this time & watched the PrimEval's videos up to ~T150 and the AI just doesn't seize to amaze me like Alex's CB/SW/LS while waiting GWBs to block the sun any second. AIs tech rate still has huge diversity unlike human preference for city locations - everyone seemed to settle on same 3 spots while the 4th near Uluru had some minor variations.

True. I've noticed everybody settled the same spots as well. Not surprising though. Obvious locations. I also noticed that for most AI wasn't teching at all and ultimately that's what made games so much easier.

 

[Grendeldef]

I didn't need nukes against air units, I used them to reduce the pop mainly.

Yup, I should've been more specific about it as that was just a loving memory from past games which emerged itself into written form - not actual reference to your game but a general observation though last patches seem to have reduced the AIs habit of stacking everything air borne in one city and even worse, next to the border.

 

[The Pilgrim]

750 bakkers is just so "slim" compared to turn time and other stats that I kind of cant imagine that u didnt do everything possible to maximise that.

All 4 cities had all science buildnings? If yes - conquer/anex more cities and buy science stuff there?

He was at tech parity already. What did he need more beakers for? To pump beakers for the sake of pumping beakers? To get a higher score? He didn't need more than that.

nice recap pilgrim. that sounds unreal, superpower just faceplants against long odds. AI

Thanks. That's exactly what happened. The saddest part, I think, was not throwing away the military lead, but the fact Sejong kept building parts in remote cities when his capital was totally locked. Initially I didn't plan to sign peace at all, because even after I was done with him, he only had 2 or 3 techs to finish all the parts and his tech lead and bpt were still ridiculous (I caught up just few turns before the end with Rationalism finisher and GE rushed Hubble). But then I saw where were his parts and where was his capital and the game was officially over.

Yup, I should've been more specific about it as that was just a loving memory from past games which emerged itself into written form - not actual reference to your game but a general observation though last patches seem to have reduced the AIs habit of stacking everything air borne in one city and even worse, next to the border.

I also think they have. But there is still only so much AI can do due to range limitations. 'Teaching' it to use range promos could be nice though. I've never seen it on any of the AI units.

@AE_, the pic doesn't show up.

 

[Tabarnak]

He was at tech parity already. What did he need more beakers for? To pump beakers for the sake of pumping beakers? To get a higher score? He didn't need more than that.

Known contradictory : tommynt vs RAs

 

[The Pilgrim]

Known contradictory : tommynt vs RAs

Tommy doesn't like rocket artillery? How silly of him. I think they're awesome.

I haven't seen any mentioning of RA's in Grendeldef's posts, neither his environment was friendly enough, thus I assume he hard teched everything. But my question was rather rhetorical. I realize some people will max out everything at any given point even if there is no rational justification just because that's part of their nature. For others, however, the extra effort is not worth it if it doesn't contribute to their win.

 

[Grendeldef]

I haven't seen any mentioning of RA's in Grendeldef's posts, neither his environment was friendly enough, thus I assume he hard teched everything. But my question was rather rhetorical. I realize some people will max out everything at any given point even if there is no rational justification just because that's part of their nature. For others, however, the extra effort is not worth it if it doesn't contribute to their win.

There're lots of things I left out but I'm willing to share if asked or hinted - I'm just too busy to write novel length play-throughs (lazy is the other adjective well suited here).

After the war with Isabella she very quickly offered DoF with me which lasted until the end with occasional hiccups such as mutual tech stealing but we managed to complete 3 RAs and the same with Korea & Rome. Korea & Rome were sort of friendly from the time we met but Isabella turned over night when Spain adopted my religion. Might be the case for Rome as well since I used faith for prophets instead of artists early on to convert Roman cities. Otherwise those would've adopted Danish religion and keeping those two hostile towards each other would've been more expensive.

Risky business but I even had two with Denmark so 11 completed RAs. Babs never were more than neutral most likely due to my DoF with Rome. I generated one GS which I used for bulbing archaelogy & built Oxford for plastics. Never ran more than few sci specialist - just enough to keep intact with AI as I didn't see the point to go all out sci. Running up to 5 cult specs in each city was hampering the growth enough so I though I'd take beakers from pop instead of specs.
I stole twice from Spain & later flight from Denmark. I had a spy in Seoul for a while but moved it before catching anything but a spaniel in my meal. Tech leading Korea tends to have a defensive spy & I didn't wanna risk my 007 getting killed.

Eventually the Patronage boost was nice but only GP I got was a GA which spawned in the landlocked part of the sea so I didn't meet any sea monsters. Apparently there was something interesting in the small islands in NW as Spain settled 8 cities in matter of few turns there according to the map replay.