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Deity Challenge #38 - Ashurbanipal, Pangaea

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by DingleBirdy, Jun 14, 2014.

  1. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    What do you mean by easy and hardcore? Would an easy map be salt start on a hill next to a mountain? And hardcore is like one lux, in the middle of the map with Attila and Shaka on both sides? Or do you have a different meaning?
     
  2. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Yeah, it is hard to stop, hard to enforce and even harder to please everyone. Another reason why I think it should not be about competition at all. Competitive nature can push some farther than others, and we really can learn nothing by comparing results of a player who played by HoF rules, and another player who exploited everything that is exploitable in the game. Things have happen before. :rolleyes:


    The maps are randomly generated and usually the host has no previous knowledge, unless he/she got pretty far in the game before posting it. How can VC be suggested on blind?

    If you want competition, you can declare in your first post in the thread that you are going for so and so victory and see who is up for the challenge. I can tell you already, there won't be many takers. 4 winning submissions in recent GotM should give you an indication of how well that would work. Having freedom to do whatever suits you best, whatever suits the map best, freedom to experiment and even fool around is, probably, one the main appeals of these games. We have two restrictive types of games. Why would we need another speed race?

    All that being said, nothing prevents you from choosing a preferable VC for yourself and suggest others to follow the same path. I am sure people would join if that VC is reasonable for the specific map. And if it's not... well, then you got yourself a challenge you wanted so badly. :)

    How do you determine what is easy and what is hardcore? Luck plays such a big role, that one game can look totally different in two playthroughs. Very easy in one and very hard in another. If by easy you mean Spain GBR start etc... well, I am actually digging the idea. These maps tend to turn into speed races naturally. So everyone would be happy. :)
     
  3. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Well, you can get a 5 salt + marble start on a riverside hill by a mountain, and then get rushed by Alex, Shaka and August who spawned 8 tiles from that magical spot and forward settled you. Would that be considered as hardcore or easy? :)
     
  4. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    I think that as long as people are not abusing stuff (say, science overflow exploit or reloading every time a spy dies just so he could coup all the CS) reloading helps people learn from their mistakes. Just make sure you reload when you know what you did is an obvious mistake, rather than reload to get another shot at something that is completely dependent on RNG.

    This is for learning after all, but it's hard to take a game where the player reloads every failed coup or on every WLTKD that is on a hard-to-obtain lux for example; that is not proper strategy and other people have nothing to learn from. But if, ok, I'll reload just so I decide not to forward settle there and get DoW'd and instead do something, I think it's fine, that means you've learned not to forward settle when you are not ready under certain conditions.

    I think VC should be left up to the player; this is not a competition (and turn time is not an accurate measure for certain types of VC anyway except science) and players should be free to determine for themselves how difficult they want it to be for them. If anything I don't really learn much from the specific details, but rather from where and when to settle, and how to deal with certain AI and which wonders to go for under certain circumstances. I feel I learn the most from early game LP anyway (anything after education will depend on the VC chosen but early game is almost always the same except for going domination)
     
  5. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    If nobody else wants to host an "official" deity challenge series, and there is enough interest, I can be the host, or co-host with someone else. Bi-weekly (or twice a month) challenges sound like the popular choice? Any suggestions on the dates? 1st and 15th? Or should they stagger GotM, like 5th and 20th? Any other suggestions? I'm not opposed to having the first game of the month using a top tier leader, and having the second game be a little more advanced. What do you guys think?
     
  6. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    Also, since I posted this game, I thought I would give an update to how mine went. I settled three cities and allied myself with a couple militaristic CS'. Early on I decided I would turtle down and beeline artillery. My gpt was fantastic most of the game, but suddenly at turn 143 Poc was on borders with a monster army. I wasn't quite ready for war so I needed him to go away. I tried to bribe him, but he wasn't having it. I couldn't get anyone to go after Poc either. Even Rome who usually only needs a horse and an embassy wouldn't do it for less than 60+ per turn. That's the best deal I received, but I had no choice but to take it. Poc declared on me the very next turn anyway. Then Alex showed up on my eastern borders, but I had no money left to bribe anyone. He declared and I was done by turn 150.

    I could probably go back and try again. I could probably knock out a science or culture victory, but honestly I get bored with both of those vc's. Domination is where it's at for me these days.
     
  7. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    I did some progress, but I seriously doubt that anything different than SV is an option here.

    First, it didn't take a long till the Shoshonese attacked me:

    Spoiler :


    It was quite easy compared to last try, killed everything that moved, took some shots on his capital, put a citadel inside his theritory, so I can have good visibility what is going on in there in the future. :
    Spoiler :


    Somehow Greece became friendly despite coveting my lands and me buying tiles, but I had only green modifiers after I sent em a caravan.

    Shortly after we became one happy family:

    Spoiler :


    So far so good, I paid Alex 18GPT to attack Russia, Maria joined the party on her own, and got Moscow. Alex got St. Petersburg and eliminated her (getting 2-3 denouncements in the process). He razed it too.

    I had DOF with Austria, which ended at some point, and after two different civs told me that he is marching towards Nineveh (and I saw some movement), I paid 2 luxes to attack Austra ...

    Alex entered Industrial rather early (maybe turn 150) - I think with Rifling. Then he went to Industrialisation, and picked Authocracy. I seriously doubt that he has Sci Theory.

    I entered Industrial with Sci Theory on T169, pretty much everyone else entered 1-2 turns before me.
    Spoiler :



    I rushed a school in Assur, plan to loan some money to rush one in Nineveh, as it will take forever otherway ...
    Population is good, science will become good soon, and I hope I can start catching up slowly on the techs.

    That was the good part, now the bad one:
    Alex owns pretty much every CS and they keep giving "fantastic quests":

    1) Spred religion (the one I was unable to spread even to my own cities, because for some reason the shoshone religion came to Nineveh and ruined my FPT - and the Shoshone founded religion 2 turns before me ... ).
    2) Find natural wonder - I guess these are in the sea, but I still have no Astronomy ...
    3) Get GA and GM ...
    4) 2 trade routes, that came recently
    5) The silk, that I have to find somehow to keep WLTKD going in Assur, but I am not feeling like paying 30GPT for it right now.

    So I don't have any CS friend. I never had such problem in any game I played ...

    Guess I will somehow manage it with the happiness, but we will get in a happiness problem pretty soon after we choose ideology.

    Thats because our TPT is non existant, Greece has 8, rest of em have between 16 and 24.

    I seriously doubt, that anything different than Authocracy here is good idea.
    I only have green modifiers with Alex right now, as I first proposed WF, and then voted for him to relocate the congress to Athens, but I feel that I go for order that will cause trouble.

    But that will be trouble on its own ... Authocracy is pretty bad for SV. As a bonus, I'd take a happiness hit, that could probably offset slightly with the few happiness buildings that authocracy offers. And after I get my happiness back things should be OK on that front. Everyone has spices and I cannot sell mine :( That since like 40 turns or so.

    Now, the thing that bothers me most is this:

    Spoiler :


    I am last in pretty much everything ... Even approval, despite only the shoshone having some red modifier for the land steal.

    I have DOF with Washington (who is fighting Rome together with the Shoshone), and Hiawatha, who is silent as a mouse. Austria likes me a lot, Rome offered DOF, what I refused.

    I serously don't know what to think and how to proceed. My top priority should be to maintain friendship with Alex, and then either backstab him when I get bombers or squeeze a SV.

    What do you think?
     
  8. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    Ahem.. did you forget about the pearls on the coast? (within buyable distance...) that'll give you 4 more happiness...

    I can't imagine struggling with 3 city happiness on such a map, you have gems truffles citrus spice pearls and marble. Perhaps you did not get circus maximus?
     
  9. hicks53081

    hicks53081 Chieftain

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    @dragonxxx,
    Did you end up getting PT? 180ish is really late to complete. If I am going for science, I like to get PT before the end of the first world congress, which is usually before turn 150. Let us know things turn out.

    @kb27787,
    He did sell off two luxuries to keep the peace, so that could explain the low happiness, but yes, those pearls need to be worked yesterday!
     
  10. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    No no, I have not forgotten em, but I was hoping my borders to get there ...
    I have 0 turns unhappy for now, and I don't think it will come to that , as the 2 luxes I gave to Alex are coming back soon (so I am virtually at +10 and have Zoos to build), and now that you said about these pearls, maybe the time to buy them is near ...
    And there is spices I cannot sell to anyone (or trade). Thats 3 missing luxes, and when you add no CS help, thats what happens (and I do have Circus Maximus, Coliseums and Circusi).

    Maybe I have to create one more war, and someone's source of spices will dry up. I seriously doubt that everyone has spices in their lands ...

    But happiness is not the thing that worries me here ... There are plenty of luxes that the AI has in multiples, so I can get happiness if I need.

    I am thinking about what might happen if I don't choose authocracy. As I need like 20 turns to get ideollogies, and I am pretty sure someone else will get authocracy too.

    Now - in such case, I will not only get the worse possible ideology, but not get any free tenet as bonus ...
     
  11. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    No, I don't have the time to play now. Its 4:30 am :) I left it for tomorrow, to see how it goes. But I do not think anyone has rationalism, so I might snatch it. Thats the first wonder I even try that game :) And now when the RAs suck big time, its not that useful besides the GS anyway.

    I didn't buy the pearls sooner, as Alex complained about buying tiles near him. And these are pretty close, so I have no idea if that counts or not. Anyway, that thing faded off few turns ago, so they will come online soon.
     
  12. hicks53081

    hicks53081 Chieftain

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    There is interest so you should go ahead and start it up. Go for 1st and the 15th and don't worry about overlapping the game of the month. Just easier that way.

    Suggestions
    -No vc's
    -no raging barbarians
    -if you use maps that don't circle the globe, use a small size instead of standard, but with the normal amount of civs. Like if you chose Europe map, make it a small, but with 8 civs and 16 city states. There is too much land mass if you don't adjust the settings.
    -I know this isn't GotM, but some sort of informal record keeping might be good. Like a basic spreadsheet of finishers. Maybe a badge or two? Not sure how that would work.
    -Shaka as a neighbor kind of became the go to dc, but that got kind of old. I don't want that to become a thing again.
    -Tinker around with world age(older=less hills), temp(higher=more desert),Rainfall (higher=more jungle?), sea level (higher= less land mass). Adjust those, but don't let the users know beforehand. That would add a little spice.
     
  13. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Spoiler :
    A quick update on my game and all of your conversations. I don't think any awards or record keeping is needed for these games. Yes you can do that if you have the time and desire but these deity challenges are more for entertainment for me than actual learning. I do learn some things from them but if you want to learn you need to read up on the strats and LPs and play some MPs and ask better players questions. Anyway it is good for me whatever you all decide. Im willing to play under any decisions really.

    So Im on t204 and this game is not even close to optimal play for anyone including myself. Im sure you will not really learn anything from my game but Im having fun with the tension that builds up from being boxed in so tight and having virtually no army. I do have 2 gat guns that were gifted to me and I still have my original scout that turned into an archer and I upgraded to comp bow. ( Yes he is still a comp bow lol ) I really didn't do anything special this game. Basically trying to get all science buildings and factories up as fast as I can. I have no trade routes for food which is not normal for my games but what the heck. All trade routes are for gold right now and I have 2x comming in than are going out. I went order and I know thats no fun right, too easy huh. Anyway Russia is the only other order I think. Poc and Rome went Autocracy and the others haven't chosen ideology yet. So Rome was my buddy but backstabbed me since they caught my spy. This game has been bad for my spies I lost the 1st 2 out of 3 which hasn't happened to me in a deity game for a long time. Somehow I have the tech lead but it must be very close right now, maybe even tied. I recieved some loan gold and bought most of the factories and labs. My game is sorta boring but very tense not knowing if Im going to get rolled soon or not. I put the whole world at war with Rome since I really thought he was going to declare on me about 15 turns ago but so far Im still at peace with everyone. I want to attack but it is so late to start building units Im hoping to wait for Rock Art if I even decide to war. Basically Im going to try to go for a ScVc, boring but really my only option at this point.

    The 2nd war of Russia and Greece turned out bad for Alex. He was wiped out and after that Russia decided to declare on her friend Austira and what the heck so did Rome. 25 turns latter I put Russia and Rome at war with each other too when I put the world at war with Rome and so far they are all having fun. I also put Poc at war with my buddy Hiawt.

    In the pic below you can see I have only one CS ally and everyone is pretty friendly except for Rome which is fake nuetral, I know he hates me and can't wait to attack! My DOFs are only Iriq and Austria still. USA wanted DOF again but at that time Rome was my best friend and I didn't want to upset him but in hindsight I wish I would of accepted. I know RA's are not nearly as good anymore but I keep signing with my two friends anyway.

    The only good thing I really did this game was go from tradition right into Rationalism on the exact turn that I got into the Ren Era. I went 3 down the left side for the RA boost since I got PT wonder on about turn 153. I was 1 turn off from getting the 2nd ideology so that hurt or I would have Science Factories already but that will be the next policy and after that hope to finish Ration. and hopefully get 6 deep into order but that is most likely wishful thinking. I might try to build kremlin, but not sure if I can.
     
  14. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Plastic turn:

    Spoiler :


    I decided to go for a science victory because been a while that i have done one :)

    Pocatello suprised me with a DoW while i didnt upgraded my CBs yet. But thankfully it was easy to kill the melee units before it was too late. Some turns later he gave me some gpt and a great general spawned and pleased Kyzil(cultural) :goodjob:

    I tried for Pisa and lost it by 5. Also tried for Globe Theatre but 7 turns short. Taj...11 turns short...but i finally got Porcelaine...well of course if no AI enters Rationalism it's pretty easy.

    Runned with 3 DoF(Wash, Iroquois, Theresa) and 3 RAs waves since the turn 105. Burned a total of 2 gs so far and used Oxford for Plastics. I went through Order. Bought a lab in capital and Kar...something and will hard build the 2 others in coastal cities(good production) and starting on Cristo Redentor because i'm short in culture and i still need 4 policies before reaching the end. Faith gave me a ge that i'm keeping for later(Cristo will be finished before next policy).
     
  15. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Spoiler :
    As usual very nice 4city tradition Tabarnak, you do that very well. In my game I wish I would of went for 4 cities but I wasn't thinking I could get 4 in but I didn't think about the gems till it was too late. My game now is at turn 279 and turning ugly I do believe. I never seen the ai citadel bomb so much because I usually don't allow that noise but oh well Poc. is bombing my land like a mad man he has 3 in me and another was on the way but he moved that GG somewhere else for now. My game is getting way more tense than it should be but that is part of the fun for me too. I have 2 parts out and maybe 40-50 turns before I can complete the shuttle. Im pretty sure Im going to get rolled before that but I've actually won many games like this and lost quite a few as well in this situation. Im also going to have a problem with aluminum but I can always buy a recycle center or two. Anyway I thought these Cit Bombs deserved a pic. That bastard stole my marble, 2 spices and Oranges, destroyed my road network, not to mention my mines and farms leaving me even less land than I already had LOL, all in about 2 turns!!
     
  16. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    Yeah, stealing luxes and ruining the roads ...
    But why is your capital so small??
     
  17. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Spoiler :
    First off I kinda suck at the game with growth. I don't always focus on it. Secondly this game I never really ran any food to my cities so thats why so small. I wanted to run the caravans to the other civs so they would be friendly to me. I have had larger growth empires like KB and Tab but alot of times I get in bad land situations like this game. Also I only had 3 workers the whole game and didn't get them early enough to really build alot of farms. I need to learn how to block the AI better and steal more workers/settlers/caravans. Also I decided on no religion so I could get one of the AIs and they would be nice to me since we share the same religion.

    Now onto the end of my game it was kinda wild actually. Russia ended up changing to autocracy so I was like Oh F*** I better change too. I guess the pressure from world ideology autocracy got to her. Anyway it was the best thing for me really. I changed and lost a few turns of everything but when I came back my empire was at +27 happy and my science and production was about the same. A few turns later I bought 8 Uran from Poc (hoping that was all he had but he had 8 more a turn or two later) and a few turns after that I bought an Atomic Bomb. That along with autocracy made the world my best friend. I put the world at war with each other and just sat back for about 40 turns till I got all the techs and parts and blasted off at a horrible turn 342 but a win is a win without any reloads or replays. I Nuked Poc. right before the last part just because I had the nuke and he stole all of my westward land! Funny Russia citadel bombed me as well and looked like they were going to put 2 more at me to steal all my mines lol. Anyway the game was fun for me and I don't take it too seriously and I think you can see you can win at this game even if you dont play optimal ( I was never at war at any time in the game and it was a blessing that Russia took out Alex early. Also I sold all my units to buy that nuke and I really never had any army at all, the most I had was 4 units at 1 time. ). Thanks again and its onto the next deity challenge that was just posted 2 days after this one as Monty I think!! Oh ya by the way this is my 4th deity challenge on this site and I finnally got a win Im now 1-3. ( Ugly record but I should get some more wins soon I hope ) Last thing is that only Russia, Rome, Pocat, and myself survived. Greece, USA, and Iriq all were wiped out! I only built a few wonders... PT, Kremlin and Hubble. It was nice to get 6 deep into Order before I had to change though so I got the free GS and GE.
     
  18. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    congrats... winning an SV with <700 bpt certainly is surprising :lol: I guess you must've signed RA after RA.

    I would've ragequit after the first citadel bomb (taking both spices is just so mean of him not sure how his meanness flavor is but Poca seems to be a douche... can't you build him a landmark or make him WC host or smthg :lol: )
     
  19. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Yes Id appreciate a one week diference with other stuff so the 8th and 22th.

    Wwell as long as its regular and semi official that would be great for me at least even if it seems im in the minority regqrding some details. I think you cant really be the only one chosing maps though unless you have a tremendous deal of patience. You would probably need at least one other person or i guess accepting suggestions in MP or in a special thread.
     
  20. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Funny thing is my science is usually around 1000 by turn 205 or so but this game was tough on me with no mtn observatories and I never really grabbed any land. I didn't grow enough to run every specialist but this game the AI was not teching like usual and I put them all at war with one another so that helped. I think Poc and Rome was going hardcore Cult Vic like yourself. Anyway I got the lead at 60% and never lost it, finishing at 94% while the avg was at 90% but most of the game the avg was about 12% less than mine. I did have many RAs but not nearly as many as other games since it was hard to get DOFs this game. I usually never rage quit... I say F the AI if they beat me than prove it :) Poc was mad at me cause of Ideology but I never seen so many citadel bombs that was annoying. After I changed Ideology and bought the first nuke of the game he was very nice to me. Actually I did elect all three of the main civs world leader for the diplo help but they all didn't really like me till I changed to Autocracy. Also you can see Poc didn't grow in my game like yours, his cap was at 32 on turn 342, I guess all the wars I put him in didn't help.
     

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