Deity Gliese #5, Willem Van Oranje
- Thread starter Gliese 581
- Start date
JBossch
King
I dont think marble has anything to do with getting oracle on deity.
Oracle and GLH seem to take you in two different directions tech-wise. I mean if you can do it great, I just was under the impression that kind of thing was ill-advised on deity. Popping sailing and the wateriness of the map seem to suggest GLH though.
Tough map. GL.
ABigCivFan
Emperor
I would prefer going for Oracle -> MC for the reasons:
1. Marble + high tech rate, get Oracle techs quickly + Pottery
2. MC is a ~800 beaker tech and a great trade bait, with all other techs you can trade it for, it will take many many turns for GLH to match this kind of gain
3. MC allows Trireme to protect your many seafood tiles (very important)
4. Looks like you will really need to focus on maximizing the potential of this capital. Early Forge + 1 settled GProphet helps a lot.
Other suggestions:
settle all good lands grab all food tiles ASAP, run scientists.
Try to get TOA
get 2 fish boats on either direction to explore, look for more land to settle.
Build Parthenon/GL/NE in capital
Run HR to grow capital and work as many cottages as you can (including grass hills). This capital can pull in amazing amt of beakers by 1AD.
1. Marble + high tech rate, get Oracle techs quickly + Pottery
2. MC is a ~800 beaker tech and a great trade bait, with all other techs you can trade it for, it will take many many turns for GLH to match this kind of gain
3. MC allows Trireme to protect your many seafood tiles (very important)
4. Looks like you will really need to focus on maximizing the potential of this capital. Early Forge + 1 settled GProphet helps a lot.
Other suggestions:
settle all good lands grab all food tiles ASAP, run scientists.
Try to get TOA
get 2 fish boats on either direction to explore, look for more land to settle.
Build Parthenon/GL/NE in capital
Run HR to grow capital and work as many cottages as you can (including grass hills). This capital can pull in amazing amt of beakers by 1AD.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
Yeah this looks like a good obsolete map doesn't it? 
GLH needs only Masonry. Then Lighthouse, GLH, 260 hammers.
Oracle needs Myst, Masonry, Med/Poly, PH, TW, Pottery. Oracle, Forge, Colossus. Assuming half-priced Oracle, no copper and dividing Colossus cost by 1.25 to compensate for forge production, 395 hammers or just slightly above 50% more.
Of course the GPriest points would get me first GP earlier which would be very valuable here I think.
TOA goes very early, sometimes even before Oracle. I think that's another mutually exclusive wonder TBH, especially if I'm going for the Colossus straight away which I should if it's the top priority, I've been shocked in the past when I missed it off a slingshot to an industrous deity AI because I thought I had more time.
It's not that I couldn't claim two or more of the early ones, it's that trying to do so is a big gamble. Then again perhaps I have to gamble with this map.
From what I've explored so far I've got 6 additional city-spots visible. Silver/Corn to the west, Sheep/Crab to the west, Fish to the NW, Sheep to the north and junk Silver city to the south and tundra Fish city 4E of capital. I marked them on this shot, I need to explore more around the corn/silver to determine best location there. Theer's also a possibility of a city on the (what looks to be) small island to the NE if I find a sea resource there.
The problem is, most of these cities.. well suck. Perhaps trying for Settled GPs by utilizing the marble is my best shot here, if that is the case I think I need to get a second settler pump city up quickly so that the capital can focus on wonders, perhaps the crab/sheep/fish spot I suggested to the west? Since I'm creative it could very quickly get up to speed and churn out a couple of settler/workers to fill the rest of the land while the capital mainly focus on trying to get wonders.
So, the verdict..the ones arguing for The Oracle path has swayed me from going for the GLH here. I think I need to treat this game as a OCC with support cities mostly giving extra commerce and unlocking national wonders. I'll start the next round by either switching to TW (to hook up silver) or Myst (for discount on Masonry, saves more in the end than the fast +3 commerce), I'll have to do some calculation with my worker, I think TW looks best so I can reach size 6 asap but I might waste a worker turn in getting it. I need it for Pottery later though.
Perhaps TW, Myst, Masonry, Poly, PH, Pottery (as I build Oracle), then.
Thanks alot for the offer Snaaty but I like to play out even horrible maps like this, part of me actually enjoys it more. Maybe I'll ask you for another game if you don't mind.
GLH needs only Masonry. Then Lighthouse, GLH, 260 hammers.
Oracle needs Myst, Masonry, Med/Poly, PH, TW, Pottery. Oracle, Forge, Colossus. Assuming half-priced Oracle, no copper and dividing Colossus cost by 1.25 to compensate for forge production, 395 hammers or just slightly above 50% more.
Of course the GPriest points would get me first GP earlier which would be very valuable here I think.
TOA goes very early, sometimes even before Oracle. I think that's another mutually exclusive wonder TBH, especially if I'm going for the Colossus straight away which I should if it's the top priority, I've been shocked in the past when I missed it off a slingshot to an industrous deity AI because I thought I had more time.
It's not that I couldn't claim two or more of the early ones, it's that trying to do so is a big gamble. Then again perhaps I have to gamble with this map.
From what I've explored so far I've got 6 additional city-spots visible. Silver/Corn to the west, Sheep/Crab to the west, Fish to the NW, Sheep to the north and junk Silver city to the south and tundra Fish city 4E of capital. I marked them on this shot, I need to explore more around the corn/silver to determine best location there. Theer's also a possibility of a city on the (what looks to be) small island to the NE if I find a sea resource there.
The problem is, most of these cities.. well suck. Perhaps trying for Settled GPs by utilizing the marble is my best shot here, if that is the case I think I need to get a second settler pump city up quickly so that the capital can focus on wonders, perhaps the crab/sheep/fish spot I suggested to the west? Since I'm creative it could very quickly get up to speed and churn out a couple of settler/workers to fill the rest of the land while the capital mainly focus on trying to get wonders.
So, the verdict..the ones arguing for The Oracle path has swayed me from going for the GLH here. I think I need to treat this game as a OCC with support cities mostly giving extra commerce and unlocking national wonders. I'll start the next round by either switching to TW (to hook up silver) or Myst (for discount on Masonry, saves more in the end than the fast +3 commerce), I'll have to do some calculation with my worker, I think TW looks best so I can reach size 6 asap but I might waste a worker turn in getting it. I need it for Pottery later though.
Perhaps TW, Myst, Masonry, Poly, PH, Pottery (as I build Oracle), then.
Thanks alot for the offer Snaaty but I like to play out even horrible maps like this, part of me actually enjoys it more. Maybe I'll ask you for another game if you don't mind.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
Right, I didn't realize that, thanks alot. A question while you're here, would the landmass to the east of the capital that is separated from the capital's landmass by impassable ice count as an intercontinental trade route?
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
Lol that would be a funny map indeed given that it's only 30% land and 70% water.
Maybe it would even the playing field a little though. Alas I fear the AI is sitting on gold and gems rivers with lush jungle around them.
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
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If this was on Immortal: GLH followed by city spam sounds solid, make sure to get an early city on another landmass for better trade routes (especially if galley isolated). You have a great leader to focus on commerce until later in the game (dikes).
Since it's on Deity: GLH could be risky since so many AIs are likely to start on the sea (70% water), going for it and missing could hurt a great deal (but the sailing pop is a big leg up). ABCivFan's plan for Oracle->MC should be safer with fast research, but what if there is no one to trade with? Tricky.
Since it's on Deity: GLH could be risky since so many AIs are likely to start on the sea (70% water), going for it and missing could hurt a great deal (but the sailing pop is a big leg up). ABCivFan's plan for Oracle->MC should be safer with fast research, but what if there is no one to trade with? Tricky.
If you really insist on playing the map, I guess GLH and GLib are a must
The ice seperating the eastern tiles is WATERICE, so by settling there you get the island boni
...
I played it up to 500 BC... ..and it wasnt a joke, the map has a layout that STRONGLY POINTS TO one ending (REALLY REALLY STRONGLY POINTING TO IT):
India wins
The ice seperating the eastern tiles is WATERICE, so by settling there you get the island boni
...
I played it up to 500 BC... ..and it wasnt a joke, the map has a layout that STRONGLY POINTS TO one ending (REALLY REALLY STRONGLY POINTING TO IT):
India wins
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
Olodune: Well I know I'm not isolated since I found an injured barb in 2680 that I hadn't fought. Anyhow I've made first contact now, I'm going to post round 2.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
Round 2, 2680 BC - 1240 BC (36 turns):
2680: Archery -> Mysticism. I thought about switching research to The Wheel next in order to hook up the silver but Dan's friendly reminder that the river took care of that issue led me to go for Mysticism instead as a req for Oracle and to make Masonry cheaper.
2560: SH BIDL.
2520: Myst -> Masonry. Masonry was chosen next to put a quarry on the marble.
2360: Masonry -> TW. I wanted TW to hook up the marble before beginning production on The Oracle and there's nothing else of interest from poly/ph while TW is a necessary tech for other things as well.
2240: Judaism FIDL.
2200: TW -> Poly. Or so I thought. Because on the same turn, an AI completed the Oracle. Change of plan then, I decided I still had a decent shot at GLH with all the techs unlocked and good production in the capital so I switched focus. With no specific techs needed right away I opted for AH in order to enable sheep pastures and look for horses.
TW -> AH.
2080: After getting my 3rd archer (and completing the warrior who was left on garisson duty in Amsterdam), I started on a lighthouse. One would think I'm organized from this shot but it's just one badass capital.
2000: AH -> Pottery. After AH I went Pottery for cottages/granaries and to reduce cost off Writing. So are there any horses around? Yes indeed, though not in optimal locations. I guess one shouldn't complain though with two close hits.
1840: Pottery -> Writing. Writing next, do I even have to motivate these tech choices? It's pretty much been on rails after losing The Oracle.
Mahabodhi (buddhist shrine) BIDL.
1720: TGW BIDL.
1640: I switch to slavery with 3 turns left on GLH in order to shave a turn by whipping.
1560: Success!
I started to grow back toward happy cap while building WBs, then switched to a settler as I grew to size 5 (further growth slowed by unhappiness).
1520: TOA BIDL. Which makes the next tech choice easy since it leaves poly out of the question.
Writing -> Aesthetics. It's down the attractive GL line and I have noone to trade with yet anyhow so there seems to be little point in going for Alphabet here.
1400: Colossus BIDL. *grumble*
I have a strange incident on this turn, something that's happened to me once or twice before. My warrior encounter a WB from Pacal but no contact is initiated. In each case this has happened to me, it's been contact with a WB specifically.
1360: The trigger activates and Pacal greets me. He's very low in score, just above my own and only has 2 cities. I'm guessing he started on a very small landmass. He doesn't even have any of the wonders in spite of his slow expansion. He's the hindu founder though.
Confucianism is founded on the same turn.
1240: With one turn left to completing the settler I end the round to take stock of the situation and to discuss where to take it from here. As you can see from this next shot, not only are the horses putting question marks behind my marked city spots, but a barb city popped up, blocking one of my spots to the west in spite of my attempt to fogbust that area with an archer. I'm tempted to move the north sheep city 1E and make that my first expansion but keep the fish city NW on the horse as marked in order to still have access to the 2 grassland hills there. OTOH a sea resource by the island NE would be great for a intercontinental city with some food and prod, making use of the horse there. What do you think?
The western part of the known world.
Techs:
The capital, WB in queue is 8/30.
Amazingly enough, I'm not last in GNP.
2680: Archery -> Mysticism. I thought about switching research to The Wheel next in order to hook up the silver but Dan's friendly reminder that the river took care of that issue led me to go for Mysticism instead as a req for Oracle and to make Masonry cheaper.
2560: SH BIDL.
2520: Myst -> Masonry. Masonry was chosen next to put a quarry on the marble.
2360: Masonry -> TW. I wanted TW to hook up the marble before beginning production on The Oracle and there's nothing else of interest from poly/ph while TW is a necessary tech for other things as well.
2240: Judaism FIDL.
2200: TW -> Poly. Or so I thought. Because on the same turn, an AI completed the Oracle. Change of plan then, I decided I still had a decent shot at GLH with all the techs unlocked and good production in the capital so I switched focus. With no specific techs needed right away I opted for AH in order to enable sheep pastures and look for horses.
TW -> AH.
2080: After getting my 3rd archer (and completing the warrior who was left on garisson duty in Amsterdam), I started on a lighthouse. One would think I'm organized from this shot but it's just one badass capital.
2000: AH -> Pottery. After AH I went Pottery for cottages/granaries and to reduce cost off Writing. So are there any horses around? Yes indeed, though not in optimal locations. I guess one shouldn't complain though with two close hits.
1840: Pottery -> Writing. Writing next, do I even have to motivate these tech choices? It's pretty much been on rails after losing The Oracle.
Mahabodhi (buddhist shrine) BIDL.
1720: TGW BIDL.
1640: I switch to slavery with 3 turns left on GLH in order to shave a turn by whipping.
1560: Success!
I started to grow back toward happy cap while building WBs, then switched to a settler as I grew to size 5 (further growth slowed by unhappiness).
1520: TOA BIDL. Which makes the next tech choice easy since it leaves poly out of the question.
Writing -> Aesthetics. It's down the attractive GL line and I have noone to trade with yet anyhow so there seems to be little point in going for Alphabet here.
1400: Colossus BIDL. *grumble*
I have a strange incident on this turn, something that's happened to me once or twice before. My warrior encounter a WB from Pacal but no contact is initiated. In each case this has happened to me, it's been contact with a WB specifically.
1360: The trigger activates and Pacal greets me. He's very low in score, just above my own and only has 2 cities. I'm guessing he started on a very small landmass. He doesn't even have any of the wonders in spite of his slow expansion. He's the hindu founder though.
Confucianism is founded on the same turn.
1240: With one turn left to completing the settler I end the round to take stock of the situation and to discuss where to take it from here. As you can see from this next shot, not only are the horses putting question marks behind my marked city spots, but a barb city popped up, blocking one of my spots to the west in spite of my attempt to fogbust that area with an archer. I'm tempted to move the north sheep city 1E and make that my first expansion but keep the fish city NW on the horse as marked in order to still have access to the 2 grassland hills there. OTOH a sea resource by the island NE would be great for a intercontinental city with some food and prod, making use of the horse there. What do you think?
The western part of the known world.
Techs:
The capital, WB in queue is 8/30.
Amazingly enough, I'm not last in GNP.
DMOC
Mathematician
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 5,594
If you really insist on playing the map, I guess GLH and GLib are a must
The ice seperating the eastern tiles is WATERICE, so by settling there you get the island boni
...
I played it up to 500 BC... ..and it wasnt a joke, the map has a layout that STRONGLY POINTS TO one ending (REALLY REALLY STRONGLY POINTING TO IT):
India wins
India wins?
DanF5771
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2008
- Messages
- 1,194
Random Event?
A massive Indian uprising is occurring. A dangerous number of Indian Fast Workers have spawned near our border. They strike out against civilization, seeking to claim its prizes with their rakes. We are likely to take the worst of their fury.
I think in order to establish contact both of the units must be able to see each other, in your screenshot the land unit can see the WB, but the WB definitely cannot see the tile your unit is standing on. (Some details about visibility are here.)
A massive Indian uprising is occurring. A dangerous number of Indian Fast Workers have spawned near our border. They strike out against civilization, seeking to claim its prizes with their rakes. We are likely to take the worst of their fury.
Gliese 581 said:
I think in order to establish contact both of the units must be able to see each other, in your screenshot the land unit can see the WB, but the WB definitely cannot see the tile your unit is standing on. (Some details about visibility are here.)
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
India wins?
Yeah I'm trying to ignore that, hoping it's not a spoiler.
Dan: Well it frequently happens that the AI first contact me without me being able to see their unit, but perhaps that's a scout moving into visibility and then moving away again?
Maybe I need to toggle show friendly moves at the beginning of the game.
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