[Deity Shadow] Making the jump to Deity :D

[sampsa]

I would definitely not raze a size 4 city and build a settler, as that's some ~250 sacrifice. Keep Bantu and found a city on desert hill to work those floodplains.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I would definitely not raze a size 4 city and build a settler, as that's some ~250 sacrifice. Keep Bantu and found a city on desert hill to work those floodplains.

Yes, I too would keep Bantu.
It is a decent city for a future Heroic Epic with lots of workshops to build military units with +100%

Turnset T168-T170
T168:

In between turns, Ramesses gets Printing Press. Not my favorite arrangement, but I'll still grab it from backwards Sitting Bull:

Spoiler :

Set to Literature.

I see I can get 10 /turn from Napoleon, so I cancel Fish<->Cows deal so I can sell my Fish for cash

T169:

Boudica won't give me Nationalism + Music, so I just take Nationalism from her for Gunpowder + Printing Press.

Spoiler :

Then I give Gunpowder to Joao for Music. Now I can build
Boudica goes into WFYABTA

Smallish stack of units are marching toward Bantu. (I'm not using my Galleon to move them, because my Galleon is busy killing barbs to get to 10XP for Heroic Epic! And I don't want to lose my land units if the Galleon loses a high odds battle

Spoiler :

T170:

Literature discovered.
Set to Chemistry.

My capital is getting to a better size now, so I swapped to Bureaucracy and Organized Religion. (Just so I can bribe people! I have no use for it myself )

Boudica will sign a Defensive Pact!
This is a great way to build a friendship with her.

At the same time, it makes everyone else upset
Maybe prevents her from plotting war with the others too?
Does it make sense the pact? At least until I get to cannons?

End of turnset

(yes I know I've been going at a glacial pace. Sorry to anyone who wants this little narrative to continue faster )

Ya, I would sign the defense pact would Boudica
If Shaka is dumb enough to DOW you, he will have 2 enemies!
I don't think the diplo hit is too bad, and it should go away the moment you cancel the defense pact in the future.

Let's see, advice advice...

I'd say you need 3 more cities.
1 just west of the pigs to make a Heroic Epic city to make lots of great people in the future (1st Settler should grab this spot)
1 on the horse to get whales
1 on the desert hill to work any flood plains the other cities are not working
The city spot on the wine in the far southeast is not urgent.
Atlanta can 3-pop whip a Settler in a few turns and New York can 2-pop whip a Settler. Gogo don't wait whip as soon as possible.
I'd even 1-pop whip that settler up north right now.

The other AI all have Galleons now and you don't want them taking your land.

Capture the barb city as soon as possible.
Send all Maces and Trebs and axes.
Garrison New York with the warrior.

2 cities need to build of course as soon as Anarchy ends to pop their borders for the 1st time.

In a few more turns, if Boudica is not plotting on anyone consider bribing her to switch into Org. Religion.

You currently have 8 cities and 6 workers and will soon have 12 cities hopefully.
Build more workers in the future.
Farm all those floodplains and grasslands.

Capital can grow to Size 7 and then squeeze out a great person in 8 turns.


Just focus on peacefully expanding.
I don't think you can get that barb city in Egypt before the deity AI, but it might be possible.

Shaka and Napoleon should keep doing military techs.
Expect them to go Replaceable Parts -> Rifling soon.

 

[Ocre307]

Turnset T171-T174

T171:

Napoleon has Replaceable Parts available for trade. He wants Nationalism, Music, Drama, and 70g. It's not super pressing right now so I don't take the deal. (He'll devalue it once it's no longer a monopoly, right?)

T172:

Boudica is now plotting war

She is Pleased towards everyone except her vassal Joao... and Sitting Bull. I might want to share that war with her

Taoism has spread in one of my cities. That's Napoleon's and Sitting Bull's religion. Seems like a pretty good idea! I'd love to be friends with Nappy
Unfortunately the city it spread in was one of my new cities, so I won't be able to build missionaries out of it till I get the infrastructure up. Still, a good break for me. I'll convert soon!
(Napoleon is not even Pleased with Sitting Bull either despite shared religion, because of the massive peace weight difference (-6!) He wouldn't get mad if I joined Boudica hehehe)

Battle of Bantu
I have an axe, 3 double promoted macemen, and a trebuchet. Will sacrifice the treb and see how it goes.

Spoiler :

...

Success! Bantu captured with only the one treb lost. It gave 157 and has a Granary And a worker nearby to steal.

Spoiler :

I decided to keep it at you guys' advice

T173:

Ah- Ramesses!

Spoiler :

He shipped over two workers and a settler onto my island! Gah. This is what I get for not REXing as soon as Optics came in
Hopefully my culture will overpower his city and flip it...?
If he founds where he's standing, I guess I can found a city minimum distance away to the west and immediately whip a Theatre. I have a settler close by.
Annoying nonetheless.

In good news, one of my galleons has been hunting barb galleys, and is now qualified for Heroic Epic New York seems like a good place for that.

Spoiler :

Converted to Taoism with a settler en route and Bantu still in revolt.

T174:

Ramesses founds Hieraconpolis, in my backyard:

Spoiler :

I have a settler ready to found on the horses next turn. He won't be there long! (I hope)

Shaka also has a galleon coming toward me! This one isn't a huge deal though. I think it's going for that one tile of unclaimed land (assuming it has a settler in it). I wasn't planning on putting a city there anyway.

Spoiler :

These cities could serve useful as espionage centers, yes? I'm not really sure the mechanics on that. Maybe I shouldn't put a city so close to Hieraconpolis, because stealing Ramesses' techs would be lovely.

End of turnset

edit: x-posted with Kaitzilla

 

[Nick723]

Nice going! I haven’t been able to look at the save, but from looking at screenshots, a few points of advice.

- I think you are building too many buildings. Cities should be on either:
- wealth (get to steel faster)
- galleons (prep for attack)
At this stage I would be whipping periodically in coastal cities to get up to ~10 galleons, plus a few frigates once chemistry is in.
- courthouses, forges, markets are not worth putting hammers in for now

 

[RedKi-rr]

Nice going! I haven’t been able to look at the save, but from looking at screenshots, a few points of advice.

- I think you are building too many buildings. Cities should be on either:
- wealth (get to steel faster)
- galleons (prep for attack)
At this stage I would be whipping periodically in coastal cities to get up to ~10 galleons, plus a few frigates once chemistry is in.
- courthouses, forges, markets are not worth putting hammers in for now

Totally agree with too many building. If you want fast first attack then courthouses and markets are kind of useless. Forges and barracks (and granaries) are usually enough in most cities. If you watch Lain or Henrik you would note the same in most cases (just research or wealth after these three main buildings followed by troops)

 

[Kaitzilla]

Turnset T171-T174

T171:

Napoleon has Replaceable Parts available for trade. He wants Nationalism, Music, Drama, and 70g. It's not super pressing right now so I don't take the deal. (He'll devalue it once it's no longer a monopoly, right?)

T172:

Boudica is now plotting war

She is Pleased towards everyone except her vassal Joao... and Sitting Bull. I might want to share that war with her

Taoism has spread in one of my cities. That's Napoleon's and Sitting Bull's religion. Seems like a pretty good idea! I'd love to be friends with Nappy
Unfortunately the city it spread in was one of my new cities, so I won't be able to build missionaries out of it till I get the infrastructure up. Still, a good break for me. I'll convert soon!
(Napoleon is not even Pleased with Sitting Bull either despite shared religion, because of the massive peace weight difference (-6!) He wouldn't get mad if I joined Boudica hehehe)

Battle of Bantu
I have an axe, 3 double promoted macemen, and a trebuchet. Will sacrifice the treb and see how it goes.

Spoiler :

...

Success! Bantu captured with only the one treb lost. It gave 157 and has a Granary And a worker nearby to steal.

Spoiler :

I decided to keep it at you guys' advice

T173:

Ah- Ramesses!

Spoiler :

He shipped over two workers and a settler onto my island! Gah. This is what I get for not REXing as soon as Optics came in
Hopefully my culture will overpower his city and flip it...?
If he founds where he's standing, I guess I can found a city minimum distance away to the west and immediately whip a Theatre. I have a settler close by.
Annoying nonetheless.

In good news, one of my galleons has been hunting barb galleys, and is now qualified for Heroic Epic New York seems like a good place for that.

Spoiler :

Converted to Taoism with a settler en route and Bantu still in revolt.

T174:

Ramesses founds Hieraconpolis, in my backyard:

Spoiler :

I have a settler ready to found on the horses next turn. He won't be there long! (I hope)

Shaka also has a galleon coming toward me! This one isn't a huge deal though. I think it's going for that one tile of unclaimed land (assuming it has a settler in it). I wasn't planning on putting a city there anyway.

Spoiler :

These cities could serve useful as espionage centers, yes? I'm not really sure the mechanics on that. Maybe I shouldn't put a city so close to Hieraconpolis, because stealing Ramesses' techs would be lovely.

End of turnset

edit: x-posted with Kaitzilla

Ah, I see you got Taoism. That changes a lot of things!
Firstly, do not bribe Boudica out of Free Religion.
She no longer needs encouragement to plot war on the other AI and bribing her into Org. Religion would only succeed in her giving -diplo towards you for different religions.

Next, Boudica is 100% plotting war against backwards Sitting Bull.
Hmm, when she declares in the future, it might be possible to DOW Sitting Bull after she starts and then bring in France fairly cheaply if he isn't at war with Shaka yet.

Now that Ramesses has stolen one of your very, very good city sites, you must choose which 2 other cities will host Heroic Epic and National Epic.
Not the capital of course, it needs to get big.

Please build in Seattle right away since you have a workboat sitting there waiting for clams.
The city can also work flood plains and a 2nd wine too.

And the Tao city is now of prime importance to spread Taoism so steal that 6 pig from the other city which can now work flood plains.
Tao missionaries can be built easily since you are in Organized Religion, and the Heroic Epic City, National Epic city, capital, and Boston all need the religion so you can switch to Pacifism in the future and start producing lots of Great People.


Keep an eye on the scoreboard.
Most AI are now in WFYABTA and won't trade with you, but those in the bottom half of the scoreboard still will. (Portugal is considered in last place on the scoreboard even as a vassal)
That means France won't trade with you until Shaka jumps ahead of him on the scoreboard and there is only 40 points of separation.
So on any turn France might be willing to trade again.


Yes, I would still settle on top of that horse and build to get Whale right away.
That is a great resource to trade for corn.


Finally, France has Replaceable Parts and is 99% teching Rifling I would say.
His neighbors are about to have a bad day.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do Ocre.
Replaceable Parts is a nice tech to get because it buffs windmills and lets you get Rifling soon after.

 

[Ocre307]

- courthouses, forges, markets are not worth putting hammers in for now

Huh, really? I would think that at 3 or per turn the buildings would pay back more than they were worth. Especially the half price ones.

 

[Ocre307]

Turnset T175-T180

Please build in Seattle right away since you have a workboat sitting there waiting for clams.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do Ocre.

Before starting, I start building in Seattle, it was silly of me not to thanks Kaitzilla

T175:

The Celts have taken the barb city up near Egypt! No idea what Ramesses is doing over there.

Spoiler :

Founded the city of Los Angeles. I told the inhabitants to try not to horse around too much

Spoiler :

T176: I notice Sitting Bull, the most backwards AI, has somehow got Scientific Method! He wants all my techs for it, so I'll put a turn into the tech myself to see if I can get it cheaper.

T177: He still wants most of my techs... I decide to make the trade. He's so backwards that I'm worried someone else will make the same deal, and won't trade it to me because I won't have enough to give him.
Traded Gunpowder, Nationalism, Literature, and Drama to Sitting Bull for Scientific Method.

Spoiler :

We have a source of oil on our continent (only one on the land though)

T178:

Joao turned up a couple turns ago with Replaceable Parts. The only thing I have to give him is Scientific Method, though. Doesn't seem like the best value there.

Spoiler :

T179:

Ramesses finishes the Statue of Liberty... man I feel so far behind. I guess that's the point of Deity, though, isn't it?

T180: Nothing of interest.

My army slowly growing:

Spoiler :

End of turnset

General thoughts:
These turns are a bit intensive for me, double checking everything and trying to think through everything. Some days I don't have the time/energy for that, which is why I have been posting less often lately.
If y'all have advice for making it a bit easier on the brain I'm all ears

I think Bantu would make a good Heroic Epic city, once it gets set up. Farm all the grassland and put down some workshops = :yum:
Plus the will help with the Egyptian city nearby.

As for National Epic... I'm not really sure. Maybe the currently unsettled city west of the capital? That has a lot of grassland to work with but not a lot of food resources.

I'm now running out of money I've been selling my maps as my caravels explore for bits of 5 but sadly that is not going to last forever.

 

[Fish Man]

Situation looks pretty bleak…people may get assembly line before you even have a chance to land.

Trust me, get RP for SM. That’s about the best deal the AI will give you, and if you don’t take the trade, someone else will in 2 turns.

 

[gavenkoa]

I would think that at 3 or per turn the buildings would pay back more than they were worth. Especially the half price ones.

I think with proper trade you almost always work 100% on research. So you won't typically have to magnify with a Market. +1 Happiness from Fur, Ivory, Silk, Whale on other hand is something that repays.

Forge is situational: depends on city fat cross. It is interesting is anyone build Forge for only +1H city (to magnify whips)...

 

[krikav]

@Ocre307 It's so easy to fall behind on deity. They are running fast and they increase in speed even further as the game progresses.
Regarding RP for SciMet trade, do you have monopoly or near monopoly on SciMet? If not I would do the trade in an eyeblink. Progressing toward rifling for you is way more important that possibly delaying one of the 6 AIs a few turns on their progress toward physics or whatever they are going for.

Situation looks tough, but it's suprising how behind you can be in tech, and still make some military progress.
Rifles+Cannons are very strong, and if you can manage a landing before your target has machineguns or infantry you can work with that.



@gavenkoa
If you are whipping, and if you plan to whip further, then a forge can absolutely make sense. It depends on how much food surplus the city has.
If it's fueled by a single crab, then a forge likely makes no sense.

Those hammer weak, food weak cities I often allow lighthouse/granary/barracks and do forge-less whips, drafts or run caste specialists in, depending on current situation.

 

[Fippy]

@Ocre307 It's so easy to fall behind on deity.

Not so surprising with 250 beakers at 100% in 1200AD
Considering this very low output, things are still looking okay.

2 AIs already have SM, so yup take RP fast.
And 270 gold from Boudi afterwards, she'd get SM from Joao anyways.
Possibly +4 fair trade forever if she didn't start on it yet.

How's fair trade with Nappy? Music can be given away too for a small gold amount.
Being generous with "old" techs can pay off.

 

[Kaitzilla]

End of turnset

General thoughts:
These turns are a bit intensive for me, double checking everything and trying to think through everything. Some days I don't have the time/energy for that, which is why I have been posting less often lately.
If y'all have advice for making it a bit easier on the brain I'm all ears

I think Bantu would make a good Heroic Epic city, once it gets set up. Farm all the grassland and put down some workshops = :yum:
Plus the will help with the Egyptian city nearby.

As for National Epic... I'm not really sure. Maybe the currently unsettled city west of the capital? That has a lot of grassland to work with but not a lot of food resources.

I'm now running out of money I've been selling my maps as my caravels explore for bits of 5 but sadly that is not going to last forever.

People say just get from the AI, but that doesn't work as well in isolation games because the amount they will trade to you depends on Size of their cities X Turns you have known them.

Napoleon should be Friendly between 12 to 15 turns from now which is exciting.
I'd take the Replaceable Part trade right now ya.
Maybe trade Copper to Boudica for 3 per turn. The faster you reach +2 shared resources with her the better.
Then next turn trade the whale to Napoleon for 10 turns for the same reason.


I see a Settler is still being built, so there is still no worry about attacking another AI just yet.
The city finishing the settler is a really good candidate for your great person farm and National EpicIt has 2 seafood, library, and forge already.

6 galleons is plenty for right now too.
The only AI which can start plotting war on you right now is Shaka (medium chance) and Egypt (low chance).

You won the lottery Ocre!
2 oil is on your island and Shaka has .... none.
Gweheheheh

I'll try to post some more thoughts tonight. Out of time right now.

 

[Ocre307]

Situation looks pretty bleak…people may get assembly line before you even have a chance to land.

Really? That's a bit discouraging...
Not sure if this is a product of being isolated or just Deity

Not so surprising with 250 beakers at 100% in 1200AD
Considering this very low output, things are still looking okay.

Also a good point. Normally I'm not this weak this late.

I see a Settler is still being built, so there is still no worry about attacking another AI just yet.
The city finishing the settler is a really good candidate for your great person farm and National EpicIt has 2 seafood, library, and forge already.

6 galleons is plenty for right now too.
The only AI which can start plotting war on you right now is Shaka (medium chance) and Egypt (low chance).

You won the lottery Ocre!
2 oil is on your island and Shaka has .... none.
Gweheheheh

Thanks for the advice. I guess if I want to start building NE right now then ya the current infrastructure matters.

Good catch on the oil!

 

[Pangaea]

Deity is tough indeed, and there is such a straight and narrow road of possibilities.

I haven't read the last few pages very thoroughly, but how are you doing on resource and GPT trades? Usually you can get loads of gold per turn if you have excess resources to spare (or health/happy you don't need right now). All those wines will be useful for that.

Perhaps overly tough to win from here, but there is no shame in that. Deity is difficult, and much more so in isolation. IMO, you should perhaps have spent more time getting feedback in those crucial early turnsets instead of steaming ahead 30-40 turns at a time. If you have looked at Lain's videos, he can spend much time pondering tiny moves in the early part of the game, because it can be so important. Get a good leap out of the gates, and you can get ahead. Admittedly you didn't really get barb trouble here due to lucky wins (at least combined) and the blocking trick/exploit, but it's a good thing to keep in mind in general.

Best of luck from here on and in. Hopefully you'll be able to declare war on some weak-ish AI and get a foothold, and with some luck you may be able to win the game. Maybe diplo with Napoleon and Boudica on your side? If you can get there first, that city by Egypt can actually be a blessing in disguise. Another trick/exploit is to build the UN and gift the city away. Means you must have enough pop to be the 'opponent', but that may be possible if you get a foothold via war. A long shot for sure, but something like that may be possible