[Deity Shadow] Making the jump to Deity :D

Fippy · Oct 9, 2021

Problem is she will likely refuse that beg, much depends on how long an AI has been pleased.
Might be better to keep gold in case she demands, but worth trying ofc.

krikav · Oct 9, 2021

If she is up at pleased and you have known her for more than like 1-2 turns, I think it's a 100% chance a beg for 1g will succeed.

NothingBesideRemains · Oct 9, 2021

Ocre307 said:
The (filler) city of Chicago is founded.

Spoiler :

You have GLH on a continents map - filler cities should be on coast whenever possible - you just lost ~6-8 perpetual commerce in exhange for access to 1 grassland and 2 plains tiles - long term that grassland could be a town worth 5 commerce, so even when that happens in 50 turns, you would still have a net commerce deficit. the plains tiles would need to be farmed, so that's a couple hammers to consider; doesn't move the needle by any means.

edit: missed the pigs - so the plains tiles dont need to be farmed, but still a long time for 3 land tiles to outweigh the 2 free trade routes - pig is shared anyway.

Ocre307 · Oct 10, 2021

Fippy said:
She might make a demand, which i think stops her plotting if accepted.

Oh! Good to know

Fippy said:
With cannons in mind you should usually build support units (like Maces or Galleons currently), not buildings.
They will be needed later. Markets are bad usually, Observatory only good in big cities full of cottages (so not here).
It's barracks & units for now, other than settlers. If Forges are already done.

Huh, I don't tend to plan for war this far ahead of time. (Like, I know I'm going to war, but normally I don't start building units. I guess since infrastructure feels like it will make the breakthrough military tech come faster?

Will do!

Kaitzilla said:
Hmm, she just started plotting and was met 5 turns ago.

If it were me I'd give her 10 a few times to get her up to Pleased.
Then I would beg her 1.
There is definitely a chance that will get her to stop plotting war.

I'll try it!
...
Took 80 :gold:

to get her to Pleased.
And...
It worked! :cool:

Thanks so much Kaitzilla :thumbsup:

NothingBesideRemains said:
You have GLH on a continents map - filler cities should be on coast whenever possible - you just lost ~6-8 perpetual commerce in exhange for access to 1 grassland and 2 plains tiles - long term that grassland could be a town worth 5 commerce, so even when that happens in 50 turns, you would still have a net commerce deficit. the plains tiles would need to be farmed, so that's a couple hammers to consider; doesn't move the needle by any means.

You make a good point. Don't know how I didn't realize that. Thanks for the heads up.
I think I was tunnel visioning too hard on losing the floodplains tile.

Ocre307 · Oct 10, 2021

Turnset T154-T162
T154 (this turn): As mentioned previously, gave 80 :gold:

to Boudica to get her to Pleased, then beg 1 :gold:

. She gave it and stopped plotting war!
Swap to Hereditary Rule (obviously) and to Vassalage for a war buildup.

T155: Traded Astro to Joao for Engineering and Aesthetics.
Research set to Guilds since no one will trade it to me yet.
...
I'm not sure how to get Napoleon to Friendly.

Spoiler :

If I share a war against Shaka with him, will that max out at +4 relations to get me to Friendly? :think:

Well only one way to find out!

DOW Shaka :devil:

T156: Quiet turn.
I realize I can move my axemen away from the barb city of Bantu, and put them in the corners of its BFC instead. That way I might get its worker to make tile improvement for me.

Spoiler :

The maces that I'm making for the upcoming war (probably against Ramesses) will take it once I have enough of them.

T157: My maps have proven that the world is round! [party]

This will be quite useful.

Everyone is willing to trade Philosophy and Guilds this turn too! I think Joao discovered Guilds and Ramesses got Philosophy.
Traded Astro to Boudica for Philo and Guilds.

Time to research Gunpowder.

Settled Seattle.

Spoiler :

I guess following what y'all told me, I should build windmills on these hills? Or the plains ones at least. Then the farm the floodplain to feed them?

T158: A rogue Zulu Caravel happens to be near my cities!

irate: My fish are in danger:

Spoiler :

How unlucky :crazyeye:

Joao seems to be researching Philosophy (he won't even give me Drama for it) I gave it to him as a gift

(Looking for "You shared your technological discoveries")

Banking is available but I don't have any immediate use for it. I think it is better to wait to give away Astro for Banking + Nationalism or Paper if someone else discovers those soon.

Spoiler :

T159: For whatever reason, Shaka's Caravel danced around instead of pillaging my fish :lol:

I whipped the Galleon in Boston last turn so that took care of it

T160: Napoleon will now trade Paper.
Traded Astro to Napoleon for Paper and Banking.

Now I'm very competitive in tech :scan:

After discovering Banking, the advisor window suggesting I switch to Mercantilism. Um, NO! :lol:

Now I can trade my map with all other civs.
Got 110 :gold:

from Ramesses and 30:gold + Boudica's map for it.
Looks like Joao got left with only 2 cities :eek:

Spoiler :

I also got Sitting Bull's map + 30 :gold:

, so I can see all of the other continent too.
It looks like a big hammer! :lol:

Spoiler :

Then I went back and traded Sitting Bull's map to Ramesses for another 85 :gold:

These maps were immediately sent to the War department :hammer:

T161:
Rheims captured by Zulu empire.

Hang in there Nappy!

Boudica went back to Cautious :eek:

Traded Paper to her for Drama + 30 :gold:

to put her back to Pleased.
I won't be able to keep the Fair and Forthright bonus up at +4 forever though... Not sure what to do :run:

This trade also put Napoleon over WFYABTA

Wowee!
The Egyptians have left a huge barb city untouched in their backyard! :eek:

If I can take it, then I will have a fantastic spot to start my war against Ramesses :devil:

Spoiler :

T162: Shaka has made peace with Napoleon.
Hmm. :think:

If I stay at war with Shaka, it might be easier to bribe Napoleon back into the war, which would help with relations.
However, Shaka might start working toward Astronomy so he can start invading me.

Not sure what the best option is. Currently he is only asking 110 :gold:

for peace. What do you guys think?

For domestic affairs, I've mostly been settling the near south and developing down there, switching over to military and settlers in the north.

Spoiler :

End of turnset

Kaitzilla · Oct 11, 2021

Oof, Shaka has Astronomy now for some reason.
Did he grab it from Napoleon for peace maybe?

He and Nappy should continue to war with each other in the future since they are annoyed with each other and are neighbors, but he can reach you now ya.
If it were me playing, I'd stay at war with Shaka 4 or 5 more turns, then sign a peace treaty.
That gives Shaka 5 turns when he can plot war on Nappy again and not on the player.
This would be a calculated risk.
You are only really in danger if he attacks one of your cities from the transport right?
Even if he lands an army, you can make peace with a big tech or some gold if necessary.

Egypt is also teching very fast with all those wonders and 10 cities.
You just don't have the production or the bulbing ability to get a huge army over there and start taking care of business. :sad:

Send your 3 city raider II maces, 2 axes, and maybe a treb from New York down to take that barb city.
I'd keep it since it has 5 pop and is in a decent spot.
Settle 2 more cities soon too.
Try to get 10 cities soon.

Get Gunpowder in 3 turns if possible.
You are in a great era of tech trading and every turn counts now.

Music is a good tech to get soon since it lets your new cities pop borders by building :culture:

After Gunpowder, perhaps tech Polytheism and then Masonry.
Switch to Bureau+Org. Religion in 1 turn, and then bribe Boudica into Org. Religion.
Not only will you start gaining +shared civic with Egypt, Boudica will drop from Pleased to Cautious with Egypt and Napoleon+Shaka when she meets them since she has a holy city.
Getting Boudica to plot war on the other AI, especially Egypt, will really stir the pot.

Boudica also has gold for trade which would be great for Forges.
Maybe she will take your wine when you hook it up next turn?

A 3rd of 4th great person would be really nice, but you don't have any religion for pacifism, nor Literature for National Epic. :hmm:

More broadly speaking, it is time to decide which victory condition you want to pursue.
Did you want to try for a military victory this game?
Or maybe space or culture since you are on an isolated island?

Ocre307 said:
Now I'm very competitive in tech

Always nice when you only have 1 or 2 big techs and you get tons from it.

Fippy · Oct 11, 2021

Would like a look at the save, but it's bugged for me (no UI).
Anyone have an idea why that could be, and how to fix?

5tephen · Oct 11, 2021

Ocre307 said:
Joao seems to be researching Philosophy (he won't even give me Drama for it) I gave it to him as a gift (Looking for "You shared your technological discoveries")

Tech trading is one of the key human advantages but we must make each trade count or else risk increasing the global tech pace for little reward. I find the AI tech pace grows exponentially around this stage of most of my games. Unless you have a clear goal with how getting Joao to friendly will benefit you I'd avoid gifting him techs - as a 2 city vassal what he thinks of you is likely to be meaningless to the outcome of the game and he probably will just give your tech to his master. I think if it came down to UN victory he'd be compelled to vote for Shaka who would be one of the options as long as he leads the scoreboard.

Ocre307 · Oct 11, 2021

Fippy said:
Would like a look at the save, but it's bugged for me (no UI).
Anyone have an idea why that could be, and how to fix?

Oh, I've had that issue before, but it's been so long that I don't remember how to solve it :think:

Suggestions:
1. try running civ as an admin
2. Make sure you have both BUG and BULL (bull comes with instructions on how to combine the two)

Next game I'll be sure to use BUFFY

Ocre307 · Oct 11, 2021

Kaitzilla said:
Oof, Shaka has Astronomy now for some reason.
Did he grab it from Napoleon for peace maybe?

Ack! He probably did. That was a mistake on my part. Very unfortunate. He doesn't have Gunpowder yet though - once I get Chemisty, I can harass him with privateers and/or build Frigates.

...

I will sign peace with Shaka in a few turns then. Will try to keep an eye on him with my Caravels.

Kaitzilla said:
Egypt is also teching very fast with all those wonders and 10 cities.
You just don't have the production or the bulbing ability to get a huge army over there and start taking care of business.

I really have no idea who to go after then. Nappy and Shaka both build crazy amounts of units. Boudica is very strong at 11 cities + a (very weak) vassal. And you mentioned Ramesses. Sitting Bull, then? Or ally with Nappy against Shaka? (I'm leaning toward Sitting Bull)

Thanks for the diplo suggestions ^^ I'll try them out.

Military victory sounds best to me. Even if I fail, I will learn more than from the other win conditions

The whole point is to learn from this game after all.
Not sure what path that takes now. I guess kill one opponent with cannons and another with say artillery? Really I'm just throwing out ideas :crazyeye:

RedKi-rr · Oct 11, 2021

Ocre, It is nice to see you thread. I am not a deity player, but won (militarily) several immortal games in different version. And won a lot deity games,on youtube

) Yes, hello Lain, Zero, and Henrick. I can see that you position is rather tough (isolation, plus rival situation) for the "first deity win", may be 8/10? And it is even more pleasure to see that you accept only militarily win (though probably some conquest followed by diplo also can fine? it is at least half-military). So, I just want to wish good luck!

Kaitzilla · Oct 11, 2021

Fippy said:
Would like a look at the save, but it's bugged for me (no UI).
Anyone have an idea why that could be, and how to fix?

I second Ocre's advice to try running Civ 4 "Run as Administrator" with right click.

I think I also read somewhere that all traces of the old bug mods need to be removed or the new Bug 4.4 might not work properly.

Spoiler :

Ocre307 said:
I really have no idea who to go after then. Nappy and Shaka both build crazy amounts of units. Boudica is very strong at 11 cities + a (very weak) vassal. And you mentioned Ramesses. Sitting Bull, then? Or ally with Nappy against Shaka? (I'm leaning toward Sitting Bull)

Thanks for the diplo suggestions ^^ I'll try them out.

Military victory sounds best to me. Even if I fail, I will learn more than from the other win conditions The whole point is to learn from this game after all.
Not sure what path that takes now. I guess kill one opponent with cannons and another with say artillery? Really I'm just throwing out ideas

Military victory. :cool:

Nappy and Shaka will both focus on military techs, so I won't be surprised to see Rifles and Cavalry from them both in about 30 turns.

Mmm, I think your best bet might be to focus on growing and expanding as much as possible.
Cottages only in capital, farms everywhere else.
Try to grow capital if you are switching to Bureau soonish.

There is too much room to expand and barb cities to conquer to really be worried about attacking the AI right now.

The most basic method of attacking the barb cities is to bombard defenses to 0.
Attack with Trebuchet with city raider promotions, and then attack with maces that have city raider promotions.
Yes, the 1st siege unit usually dies, but the 2nd treb and maces will have much better odds if all the longbows are injured.

To get a really good production for military units in the late game involves a mix of Nationalism to draft Rifles from size 6+ cities, Biology farms giving +4 :food:

, Communism workshops, and Factories+Coal Plants.
The Kremlin world wonder from Communism also makes whipping 50% stronger. :yumyum:

Ocre307 · Oct 11, 2021

RedKi-rr said:
Ocre, It is nice to see you thread. I am not a deity player, but won (militarily) several immortal games in different version. And won a lot deity games,on youtube ) Yes, hello Lain, Zero, and Henrick. I can see that you position is rather tough (isolation, plus rival situation) for the "first deity win", may be 8/10? And it is even more pleasure to see that you accept only militarily win (though probably some conquest followed by diplo also can fine? it is at least half-military). So, I just want to wish good luck!

Thank you very much RedKi-rr!

Kaitzilla said:
Mmm, I think your best bet might be to focus on growing and expanding as much as possible.
Cottages only in capital, farms everywhere else.
Try to grow capital if you are switching to Bureau soonish.

There is too much room to expand and barb cities to conquer to really be worried about attacking the AI right now.

The most basic method of attacking the barb cities is to bombard defenses to 0.
Attack with Trebuchet with city raider promotions, and then attack with maces that have city raider promotions.
Yes, the 1st siege unit usually dies, but the 2nd treb and maces will have much better odds if all the longbows are injured.

To get a really good production for military units in the late game involves a mix of Nationalism to draft Rifles from size 6+ cities, Biology farms giving +4, Communism workshops, and Factories+Coal Plants.
The Kremlin world wonder from Communism also makes whipping 50% stronger.

Sounds like a plan :thumbsup:

Thanks for the very-specific advice. Maybe it doesn't seem like it, but this is exactly the kind of thing that I was looking for from this game. Some of these things aren't obvious! Much appreciated :love:

Ocre307 · Oct 11, 2021

Keeping Bantu raises another problem. There isn't enough room for another city on the coast if I don't raze + replace. :think:

Spoiler :

Either I should move the yellow dot 2W or burn Bantu to the ground.
That darned Chicago mistake! :wallbash:

It's in such an inconvenient spot.
...
If I leave Bantu where it is, I could put a city on that easternmost Wine, and Give it to Joao to steal techs from him with passive espionage.
I've never done that before :lol:

Ocre307 · Oct 11, 2021

Turnset T163-167
T162 (this turn): I queue up a Settler in Atlanta since it's about to grow into unhappiness.
Also I turn some cities to build Research to get Gunpowder one turn faster.

T163: Enough AIs now know Nationalism that I can trade for it... because somebody sold Astro to Ramesses! :mad:

Ah well. I still got tremendous value out of that tech :king:

My first Wine is now connected, and I trade it to Boudica for Gold. +2

for each city!

T165: Gunpowder discovered :cool:

I'd like to trade for Nationalism and Music with it eventually. 3 of the 6 opponents already have the tech though.

Spoiler :

Ramesses has shown up with Printing Press. It is a monopoly, but he will still trade it because it doesn't unlock any units or buildings :cool:

T166: I founded the nice port of San Francisco.

Spoiler :

It is a bit sore for land given how close its western neighbor New York and southern neighbor Chicago are :cringe:

I'll make it work though. I was thinking about Moai Statues in this city? (can use the shared horses to build it quickly, then give those over to the other cities since the coastal tiles make up for the :hammers:

)

Hmm... Bantu's worker hasn't been making any improvements.
Maybe being in the corners of the BFC don't prevent worker AI from being scared? I'm confused.
Anyway, I have 3 maces and 2 trebuchets will which be down there soon. :devil:

T167: Monotheism discovered.
Boudica adopts Mercantilism, which alone drops my research rate by 40 :science:

per turn.

Soon I'll swap to Organized Religion so I can bribe Boudica to do the same. Not sure how I'll convince her though :crazyeye:

I started research on Printing Press so that in a few turns I hopefully can swap Gunpowder to Ramesses for it 1-to-1.

Now that 5 turns have passed, I trade Paper for peace with Shaka at Secretary of State Kaitzilla's advice. I hope Shaka's unquenchable bloodthirst doesn't land on me next :satan:

Spoiler :

Empire overview:

Spoiler :

End of turnset

NothingBesideRemains · Oct 12, 2021

The dotmapped '"City?" should be one tile to the right. loses only ocean tiles and gains otherwise unusable grassland.

Kaitzilla · Oct 12, 2021

Ocre307 said:
Turnset T163-167
T162 (this turn): I queue up a Settler in Atlanta since it's about to grow into unhappiness.
Also I turn some cities to build Research to get Gunpowder one turn faster.

T163: Enough AIs now know Nationalism that I can trade for it... because somebody sold Astro to Ramesses! Ah well. I still got tremendous value out of that tech
My first Wine is now connected, and I trade it to Boudica for Gold. +2 for each city!

T165: Gunpowder discovered
I'd like to trade for Nationalism and Music with it eventually. 3 of the 6 opponents already have the tech though.

Spoiler :

Ramesses has shown up with Printing Press. It is a monopoly, but he will still trade it because it doesn't unlock any units or buildings

T166: I founded the nice port of San Francisco.

Spoiler :

It is a bit sore for land given how close its western neighbor New York and southern neighbor Chicago are
I'll make it work though. I was thinking about Moai Statues in this city? (can use the shared horses to build it quickly, then give those over to the other cities since the coastal tiles make up for the )

Hmm... Bantu's worker hasn't been making any improvements.
Maybe being in the corners of the BFC don't prevent worker AI from being scared? I'm confused.
Anyway, I have 3 maces and 2 trebuchets will which be down there soon.

T167: Monotheism discovered.
Boudica adopts Mercantilism, which alone drops my research rate by 40 per turn.
Soon I'll swap to Organized Religion so I can bribe Boudica to do the same. Not sure how I'll convince her though

I started research on Printing Press so that in a few turns I hopefully can swap Gunpowder to Ramesses for it 1-to-1.

Now that 5 turns have passed, I trade Paper for peace with Shaka at Secretary of State Kaitzilla's advice. I hope Shaka's unquenchable bloodthirst doesn't land on me next

Spoiler :

Empire overview:

Spoiler :

End of turnset

Cool beans.

Sitting Bull is willing to trade Printing Press.

If you get it from him, you might be able to trade Gunpowder + Printing Press to Boudica/Joao for Nationalism + Music next turn.

I'd try to get the techs from Boudica first since she can say you are too advanced pretty quickly.
If she won't give you both techs, just get Nationalism from her first. Then Music from Joao.
Music would really, really help your empire develop right now.
If your luck is terrible, all the AI will get Printing Press in between turns just like Ramesses got a lucky Astro trade.

Boudica just switched civics, so bribing her into Org. Religion won't be possible for 5 turns.

You have nice 5 :move:

galleons. Make sure to use them to get your troops to the barb cities as fast as possible.

Keep trading to get the big techs. :thumbsup:

Maybe keep backfilling techs now that you have Gunpowder.
Literature -> Hunting -> Horseback Riding are pretty good.

Make sure to check the trade screen every turn for tech trading opportunities.

gavenkoa · Oct 15, 2021

Kaitzilla said:
Everyone already knows those techs so you should get a 30% research bonus.

Could you give more details on this mechanic?

Kaitzilla · Oct 15, 2021

gavenkoa said:
Could you give more details on this mechanic?

This thread talks about it.
Question About Tech Prerequisite Bonuses | CivFanatics Forums

I'll post about it in more detail if I get some time.

Ocre307 · Oct 15, 2021

Turnset T168-T170
T168:

In between turns, Ramesses gets Printing Press. Not my favorite arrangement, but I'll still grab it from backwards Sitting Bull:

Spoiler :

Set

to Literature.

I see I can get 10 :gold:

/turn from Napoleon, so I cancel Fish<->Cows deal so I can sell my Fish for cash

T169:

Boudica won't give me Nationalism + Music, so I just take Nationalism from her for Gunpowder + Printing Press.

Spoiler :

Then I give Gunpowder to Joao for Music. Now I can build :culture:

Boudica goes into WFYABTA :sad:

Smallish stack of units are marching toward Bantu. (I'm not using my Galleon to move them, because my Galleon is busy killing barbs to get to 10XP for Heroic Epic! And I don't want to lose my land units if the Galleon loses a high odds battle :satan:

Spoiler :

T170:

Literature discovered.
Set :science:

to Chemistry.

My capital is getting to a better size now, so I swapped to Bureaucracy and Organized Religion. (Just so I can bribe people! I have no use for it myself :crazyeye:

)

Boudica will sign a Defensive Pact! :eek:

This is a great way to build a friendship with her.

At the same time, it makes everyone else upset :hmm:

Maybe prevents her from plotting war with the others too?
Does it make sense the pact? At least until I get to cannons?

End of turnset

(yes I know I've been going at a glacial pace. Sorry to anyone who wants this little narrative to continue faster

)

[Deity Shadow] Making the jump to Deity :D

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