Denmark

[Enginseer]

That early gold is like a free Carthage UA to me. Early gold is too good it helps m
e rush building, buy units to swallow my neighbor (for more gold).
My proposal is limit the gold gain to the victim's coffer. Its stolen gold, there is nothing to steal when your victim is broke.

This is already a case, you can't acquire any Gold(although the UI will show up, but won't add any gold to show potential gold that could have been stolen) if there isn't any gold to be taken.

 

[chicorbeef]

I agree with @CppMaster and would love if it could scale reasonably with City CS.

Another option is to decrease its yields (like cut it -50%) and have it scale with era, if City CS scaling is impossible.

 

[ElliotS]

I don't think there's a problem. Compared to Carthage UA you get much less gold much later as far as early game is concerned. It's not even close.

Denmark isn't crazy strong anymore, so nerfing them seems like a bad choice.

 

[Minh Le]

I don't think there's a problem. Compared to Carthage UA you get much less gold much later as far as early game is concerned. It's not even close.

Denmark isn't crazy strong anymore, so nerfing them seems like a bad choice.

Its much MORE than Carthage UA though a little slower. The key is to attack unprotected city without garrison since it scaled with damage dealt to city. I can steal thousand of gold with a single warrior.

 

[CppMaster]

I don't think there's a problem. Compared to Carthage UA you get much less gold much later as far as early game is concerned. It's not even close.

Denmark isn't crazy strong anymore, so nerfing them seems like a bad choice.

It's just pure nerf. The idea is to earn less gold early game and more late game.
How can Carthage UA get more than 150 gold per turn in ancient era?

 

[ElliotS]

Its much MORE than Carthage UA though a little slower. The key is to attack unprotected city without garrison since it scaled with damage dealt to city. I can steal thousand of gold with a single warrior.

How often are you dealing 1000s of damage to citys really early? That sounds like an exaggeration. Images or something please.

How can Carthage UA get more than 150 gold per turn in ancient era?

Once again, you're telling me you're dealing an average of 150 damage to cities per turn early game? That doesn't sound realistic.

Like... Please prove me wrong. I'm just not seeing people able to crush city after city early if they're playing on the right difficulty.

I mean a city has 300 HP, so 150 GPT means you're taking a city every other turn. That's not even possible.

If you're taking 5+ cities with warriors I think it's time to move up a difficulty level.

 

[CppMaster]

Once again, you're telling me you're dealing an average of 150 damage to cities per turn early game? That doesn't sound realistic.

Like... Please prove me wrong. I'm just not seeing people able to crush city after city early if they're playing on the right difficulty.

I mean a city has 300 HP, so 150 GPT means you're taking a city every other turn. That's not even possible.

If you're taking 5+ cities with warriors I think it's time to move up a difficulty level.

No, that's not the formula. I got 150 gold for dealing about 1/3 HP by horseman to a barbaric city that had 6 CS. I can do it 3 times and then let it regenerate.
According to wikia, you get 2 gold for every dmg point, so it was 75 dmg per hit.
PS. It's Immortal difficulty.

 

[Minh Le]

I got to do 3 hits to an unprotected AI city before I had to withdraw, each earn 150g. Its a heafty 450g in 3 turn, I can have 2 or even 3 guys doing the same thing which means a lot of gold. I always play on deity and the AI were never actively send units to my cities in those super early war/raid. I never take cities, just take the early gold/benefit without any consequences. The irony is in the late game I can attack a well defended city and earn less gold than those early raid which made no sense. I dont care though because its push me far enough to snowball pretty hard.
I can prove it with image if you want when I have time.

 

[ElliotS]

No, that's not the formula. I got 150 gold for dealing about 1/3 HP by horseman to a barbaric city that had 6 CS. I can do it 3 times and then let it regenerate.
According to wikia, you get 2 gold for every dmg point, so it was 75 dmg per hit.
PS. It's Immortal difficulty.

I forgot it was 200%.

I mean maybe something to curb these corner-cases would be a good idea. I just don't want to see sweeping changes. Adding a limit to gold gained in a single attack of 50 or 75 per era seems like a good start

 

[CppMaster]

What do you think about this?

If gold would scale with city's CS, it would not be that OP early game and it would not be weak late game.

I prefer this linear approach over caps.

 

[tu_79]

I forgot it was 200%.

I mean maybe something to curb these corner-cases would be a good idea. I just don't want to see sweeping changes. Adding a limit to gold gained in a single attack of 50 or 75 per era seems like a good start

I have a doubt. Is it possible to steal more gold from city attacks that whatever is in the city treasure? Is this stealing actually reducing the gold of the victim or is it just creating gold from the air?
If this is limited to whatever gold the civ actually has or produces, then it can scale nicely.

 

[CppMaster]

I suspect it's creating gold from the air, because how else a barbaric city, former city-state would have about 1000 gold treasury in Ancient Era? This or city-states have some huge bonuses to gold.

 

[Minh Le]

I have a doubt. Is it possible to steal more gold from city attacks that whatever is in the city treasure? Is this stealing actually reducing the gold of the victim or is it just creating gold from the air?
If this is limited to whatever gold the civ actually has or produces, then it can scale nicely.

It takes the victims treasure but not limited to it. Thats why I propose to make the UA to just steal the gold in the victims treasure, which make it more balance and reasonable.

 

[ElliotS]

I don't think Denmark actually steals the money from the civ's treasury. Does it?

 

[CppMaster]

@Gazebo will know.

 

[Minh Le]

They do

 

[Minh Le]

Im planning to do a Denmark photojournal to show how broken they are with the early raiding strategy, but I havent decided about the setup. So what do you guys think about the map type, the type of map would put Denmark to the most disadvantage? Im looking forward to have some feedbacks from you guys

 

[ElliotS]

Im planning to do a Denmark photojournal to show how broken they are with the early raiding strategy, but I havent decided about the setup. So what do you guys think about the map type, the type of map would put Denmark to the most disadvantage? Im looking forward to have some feedbacks from you guys

Great plains would negate most of their bonuses ocean-wise while still being fun.

 

[CrazyG]

Im planning to do a Denmark photojournal to show how broken they are with the early raiding strategy, but I havent decided about the setup. So what do you guys think about the map type, the type of map would put Denmark to the most disadvantage? Im looking forward to have some feedbacks from you guys

I think extreme isolation (meaning a continent to yourself, with no way to get land units across an ocean before astronomy) would hurt Denmark the most. By the time war is possible, your UU is outdated, and you can't really use the jelling stones until renaissance.

I think this would hurt Denmark more than a land heavy map would, because jelling stones are more important than his UA's bonuses.

 

[Minh Le]

I think extreme isolation (meaning a continent to yourself, with no way to get land units across an ocean before astronomy) would hurt Denmark the most. By the time war is possible, your UU is outdated, and you can't really use the jelling stones until renaissance.

I think this would hurt Denmark more than a land heavy map would, because jelling stones are more important than his UA's bonuses.

Yes It would hurt so much but I think this scenerio would hurt any other warmonger in the game, not only Denmark so I think I will pass .
And the whole point of doing this is to prove that early gold earned from UA is too much, while later when cities have some defensive building it becomes less. IMO its not really reasonable, if there is a way I think gold earned from UA should be scaled with the progress of the game (you earn more latter rather than earlier).

Great plains would negate most of their bonuses ocean-wise while still being fun.

It sounds interesting