Dept. of Turnplay too

[Kickbooti]

Alright, Scout, I'm with you. Not getting overambitious with TNT is definetely the way to go... [GA triggered] + [lux + land grabbed] + [Stretching for military resources] + [TNT sufficiently weakened as MIAs research partner] = peace talks.

To make the most of our GA, let's not waste too much shields on MDI but spend them on horsies + infrastructure, and we'll need to out research MIA as well.

I think all of this is spot on. I would only bring these points up for consideration:
A) Timing - the Nuts peace deal with TNT ends in 2(?) turns. Before we seriously consider peace we should do the 'ally' thing and discuss it with the Nuts. If they are rearranging things (as per our request) to pressure TNT and take advantage of the situation, to pull that rug out without warning would make working with them in the future against MIA a difficult thing.

B) Darkness - I would personally love to know more about the lay of TNTland before we start talking peace. There may be a particulalry desirable hunk of realestate that is worth a bit of a stretch.

C) Depth - how large a holding do we want? I think that two cities is a great beach head, but I seriously doubt it is defensible. How many cities do we want over there? Or more precisely, do we intend on KEEPING our holdings or is it just a GA/lux grab? And if we are committed to holding it, what kind of forces would that require?

Personally I would love to take and keep land in TNT, but the forces required both to protect it, and present at least a credible threat to TNT/Nuts against easy incursion would be considerable. In other words, I don't think a zone defense will work in TNT land, we don't have the room to loose.

If I'm correct that we will have to dedicate forces to a static defens + have a mobile reaction force, will that allow us to still go after MIA as we need to?

Nagging questions aside, I stand in awe of Scout's prowess.

 

[Tubby Rower]

A) Timing - the Nuts peace deal with TNT ends in 2(?) turns. Before we seriously consider peace we should do the 'ally' thing and discuss it with the Nuts. If they are rearranging things (as per our request) to pressure TNT and take advantage of the situation, to pull that rug out without warning would make working with them in the future against MIA a difficult thing.

It was said that they extended it for 5 more turns. There's no telling how long their current deal is in effect, but yes they should be informed if peace is the direction that we are headed.

I think that we should hold off at 1 maybe 3 cities at most. Plant a few pikes there and just let them be. Horses/knights should be our next focus if we are planning on pulling out.

 

[Crakie]

I say we grab as much TNT land/cities as we can without overstretching our resources (hence wasting our GA) and not worry about defending it. We'll never stand a chance against the Nutters anyway if they choose to take it. Any land we grab now, is not theirs (be it the Nutters or TNT) for the time being and that's a good thing as long as we're not getting ahead too far and forcing a MIA/Nut alliance. The rest is pretty inconsequential IMO.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If the game is going to played along the lines of "Scout makes a suggestion, Bugs says OK and then all other discussions are overruled, then we have to reconsider our style of government.

Don't know where this one came from. I have never felt like I am anything more than an advisor, a schemer, a planner, and a

How about I go through and post all the hundreds of other times I have said I liked something in this game. If you guys don't want my participation, just let me know. I have a project I can be spending time on and I can stop wasting the hour or so I spend here every night

Please note that I said I liked three different ideas in post 292. I certainly didn't act like a dictator. I gotta tell you this has got me a bit cross.

 

[soul_warrior]

bugs, dont worry. be happy

i may be silent most of the time, but only for a lack of better things to say.
hence my halted promotion within the Academy.
maybe im not a true idiot - one would not do as i do where they idiots, right?

during our perliminary questioning, the young rebel, captured on the plains of Tuskana, has confessed himself to bethe infamous Dinsog.
it took our Idiot Savants a whole HOUR and 4 thumbscrews to secure the truth out of that dastardly liar.
we had in fact captured a revolutionary miscreant of persian decent.
his name was not Dinsog, but Che' Dins. (which is translated phonetically into IdiotSpeech as Dinsoguevarra, which in turn SHOULD be translated into either Dinsog Jr or Dinso@ {depending on your town of origin}
to avoid unneeded troubles, and to keep our credebility {ncredulous as that may seem} with the others, i suggest branding his forehead with the sacred "@", do a quick lobotomy [scoutsout can surely supply us with a nifty blade], and simply rename him "@Dins"

 

[Crakie]

Don't know where this one came from. I have never felt like I am anything more than an advisor, a schemer, a planner, and a

How about I go through and post all the hundreds of other times I have said I liked something in this game. If you guys don't want my participation, just let me know. I have a project I can be spending time on and I can stop wasting the hour or so I spend here every night

Please note that I said I liked three different ideas in post 292. I certainly didn't act like a dictator. I gotta tell you this has got me a bit cross.

I think you are being a bit too sensitive about this Bugs. If Dagh feels this way, it's important for his enjoyment of the game he can post about it so we can work things out. I understand Dagh - it does seem sometimes that some input doesn't get enough attention. For me that is not a problem, I follow the game closely and post when I feel there's something to add (like SW in that respect). Having assumed that role, I do not expect all of a sudden my contributions to be considered Holy. Dagh favours a higher level of participation but feels he is a bit left out due to the 'old boys network'. Now that's a fair complaint, isn't it? I'm sure we can work that out, but threatening to quit is not very constructive.

I am happy the turns are in the obviously capable hands of Scout, who also posts detailed logs, which must take a good deal of time to write. And I'm sure everyone will agree your contributions are invaluable as well and we wouldn't miss you for the world! In fact, have you considered becoming turnplayer for a while? Scout may like a bit of rest.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Bugs.... I think that Daggie wasn't informed about a MSN conversation. Please stick around. we need you.

 

[Whomp]

Ahhhh...anarchy!!

If i may...this team was brought together for reasons a lot of which was my doing. When the game was constructed Ginger Ale and Regentman were struggling to put teams together . I stepped in and said if I can bring together a team of players I'd like to build from a group that knew each other that I felt gave us the best chance to win. Hence, the many players from the SG world.

I have the utmost respect for the chemistry and teamwork this team has shown. I didn't want to get caught up in the mess known as the Demogame world others operate under, which I found extremely unattractive and still do. The fact is we can be decisive and the others can not. I see this as a distinct advantage.

In the process, fully understanding, we couldn't exclude anyone from joining us and we added to big additions Crakie and Kickbooti. It was not intended to be old boys network but a network that could work together for a common goal which I am fully confident we will succeed at.

If we think things should be changed let's discuss that. Maybe the game has progressed where this is necessary, and to maintain our core, assign areas of interest and expertise. I know where I feel my expertise falls. The game's turnplay has gone beyond my level of confidence against players like Chamnix and Kuningas/Killercane so for me talking (diplo) is where I feel I contribute...so if we're going to assign areas this is a space I find interesting and enjoyable.

 

[Daghdha]

@Bugsy (and others)
Between my intital, somewhat frustrated, post, and Bugsys, somewhat crossed response, I posted this:

-Sorry for maybe sounding put off about the dyes deal. I knew zip about the MSN session and hadn't had morning coffee. All good.

. I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion on how the game is played, but I didn't mean to suggest someone is acting as a dictator, and I don't feel my post made such a point. All I felt was that some ideas is taken seriously into consideration, and some fall flat without any discussion at all. I am fully aware that my skills are far below those of, for example Scout and Bugs, and I have no probs with being voted down because I'm still learning from you guys. What is a wee itch is that no one can learn anything from scilence (except maybe that your idea was too dumb to even comment).
Now, this is not a big issue and, but right then (for the reasons I've already mentioned) I felt I had to object. I don't expect everyone to read and comment everything, not at all. It's just that in this particular case it seemed so odd to just ignore some valid points and do something completely different and that's how I read it at that moment.
I'm very much for staying in anarchy and I also which we can be a bit grumpy with each other every now and then without anyone feeling he/she has to abandon the ship.
I'd like to close this particular incident with the words of Whompie: I love you guys, man

 

[Kickbooti]

Okay. Now that THAT is over, in the words of my leather-faced, emotionally distant, battle-hardened grandfather "BUTCH UP!"

Let's go kill Persians. That will make all of us feel better.

Remember, Maudlin despair and irrational rage are the emotional bookends of any drunken society. We're just riding the pedgilum.

(PS - I love you guys too But if you tell anyone, I'll Kill Ya )

 

[Whomp]

. OK group hug everyone. You guys are making me feel all misty eyed!

Yes AK, I have issues....now let's go whack a Persian!!

Where's my fellow Wildcat 'Slinger when I need him? Bear down 'Slinger!

 

[gmaharriet]

. OK group hug everyone.

I'm all for that!!!

 

[scoutsout]

Wow - I missed the group hug. Dangit. But I'm more sorry this got so long-winded.

Oh well. I'm all for KB's suggestion on whacking some Persians. I still haven't been able to confirm the initial recon reports about their women... due to the "siege prevention auto-razing sequence".... Sorry team.

@Daghie, et al: Somebody mentioned something about a "good ol' boys" club... I'd like to speak to that...and something Whomp mentioned about this being a team comprised of SG types.

I think one of the greatest strengths of this team is that we come from the SG background. Because of this, we don't necessarily need to discuss every detail ad nauseum... and can focus on strategy and tactics. I want to come back to this in a moment...

...but on the SG thing... please don't think I mean to exclude anybody... but I have played in at least one SG with everyone described as a "Grumpy"... and I go back further with Bugs than any active player at CFC.

[digression]
To anyone who might feel a bit left out...please understand...

Bugs was one of my instructors in GK2 - when I was a Regent level player. After that we played together in The League of Ordinary Gentlemen (my first Emperor SG). We were in Bede1 together - where we field tested paratrooper tactics that were later published in the War Academy; and (at the risk of bragging) it was I who set up a Longbow Rush in Bugs2 ("Gauntlet revisited") that some considered a difference maker between Bugs2.0 and 2.1 (same game, second team).

In short - with the possible exception of Bede - there is no player on CFC who knows me better than Bugs. If you want to see me get my a$$ kicked in a PBEM, pit those two against me. (Sun Tzu, etc.)

Please understand, I do not mean to exclude anyone on the team from the discussion - it's just that "the Grumpys" can say more with fewer words to each other - because we know each others' playstyles, and minds. There's a reason that Nincompoopicity is where it is - because I understood Grahamiam's reasoning without him having to spell it all out. This level of understanding is a strength of our team - but I think we've just seen how it can work to our disadvantage.
[/digression]

Having said all that - (whew!) - there is some really good discussion in General Musings on city placement on the beachead...and whether or not we want to grab enough tiles for a domination win...

...and I think it is an important strategic discussion. The next turn we'll have a settler next to the Ivory... but after that turn we'll need to plot a course that will shape the way we play the game.

...and this is where I will truly need the team's help. Bugs and Bede will tell you, I'm a passable tactician. But all (and I do mean all) of the "Grumpys" are better strategists than I.

End of sermon. Amen. (apologies to KB)

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Sorry to everyone for getting ticked off. I didn't read everything and just saw the first post and got ticked.

Scout - that was a very good description of the grumpies. Between you, bede, Slinger, G-man and me, I think we could have a huge conversation with less than 100 words typed. My apologies to the team on this regard.

I understand that we have the game back. How is the tactical situation looking.

Edit - Oh, BTW there was supposed to be a little bit of humor in my being "a bi cross." See this article: British Alert Levels.

 

[scoutsout]

I understand that we have the game back. How is the tactical situation looking.

Aw dang. I've been chatting with Whomp, Harriet, Tubby, and Mistfit. Between sharing "213 things Skippy is no longer allowed to do in the Army" and trying to teach yankees how to make barbeque... I knew there was something I forgot.

But at least I helped AK improve his Chili.

 

[Kickbooti]

...and trying to teach yankees how to make barbeque...

C'mon. That is a cheap shot. Everybody knows how to use ketchup.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

But at least I helped AK improve his Chili.

tis true....

 

[scoutsout]

Log for Turn 121

Simpleton Library>Barracks
Ignoramus Settler>Settler
SKWTD Gallic Swordsman>MDI
Polecat Library>MDI
Cyprus Creek Trebuchet>Redux
Village d'Idiota Library>Market

Begin the turn at 208g, +183gpt. Invention in 9.
Still strong to 'nuts and TNT, Average to MIA.

We're a bit behind MIA in land, 19 to 17, population is 32 to our 31. They're also closing in score, we're only 8 points ahead. Relative to us, their power is growing at a rate that is starting to bother me.

Worker stuff: Pliskenator moves to road a desert tile near Dresden. G-man roads a regular grass between Gilfach and Dresden. Unnamed worker roads a BG at Dresden. Unnamed Worker roads Jungle at Senilityville. Lenny moves to an unimproved grass at Cretinograph. Grandma Harriet starts a forest chop at Simpleton. DeeDee moves to an unimproved plains tile at Idiote. Lovely Holly irrigates a roaded plain at Crackhead. Bootsy moves to road an unimproved grass W of DuMass. Daghda starts a forest chop at DuMass. Captured worker re-named P.O.W. starts roading in our new province.

City stuff: MM Simpleton for growth and gold.

The timing of the forest chop at Simpleton is important. The city will produce a Barracks in 2 turns. As it stands right now, the city will grow in 3 turns. The Forest chop will actually complete at the end of the 3rd turn from now (PBEM quirk). If the queue is set to Settler after the barracks build, we will actually complete the settler in one turn - the same turn the city grows again. After the forest chop we need to road and mine the plains tiles around Simpleton... as we need shields more than food.

City stuff: Library short-rush of market at Knucklehead will cost 60g. MM Knucklehead for a gold piece. MM SKWTD for a gold piece. Fire a scientist at Crackhead. Short rush a worker into the Trebuchet build at Devil's Soul for 12 gold. Rush the Trebuchet at DuMass for 28g. Short rush the Trebuchet at Paradise Hotel for 32g. Spend 36g short rushing a Treb with a worker at Dresden, same thing at Fortress of Stupidity. Fire the scientist at Nincompoopicity and Dionysus. (Population is power, etc.) MM Ignoramus for food and gold. MM Jesterton for gold. (The mined iron might be better used by SKWTD after next turn...) Gilfach will grow next turn... and produce a pike. MM for a shilling. Short rush an MDI into Idiote's Market. I forgot what it cost... but I'm down to 12g. Jesterton will complete its market next turn - which might allow us to take the lux back down to zero.

Unit Stuff: Settler and Pike are loaded onto a Galley at Devil's soul. Settler loaded onto Chumbucket at Dionysus. Unnamed Galley at Devil's Soul sails to the position of Fool's Errand. Fool's Errand takes the pair to the coastal tile 1W of the furs NW of Frozen Lake. Settler at Ignoramus heads west. Take an unnamed Gallic in the SW and reduce our blind spot a bit. Trebuchet at Cyprus Creek heads towards Gilfach. Trebuchet at Frozen Lake is loaded onto Bede's Boat. Gallic Swordsman Scoutsout boards Bede's boat.

Scoutsout on Bede's Boat. If I had renamed that Trebuchet "Bugsy's Rock Chucker", we'd have the perfect League of Ordinary Gentlemen Combined Arms Task Force.

Bede's Boat picks up the settler pair from Chumbucket and moves 1N to hand them off to Danny Buoy. Bede's boat continues northward and finishes the turn 1W of Frozen Lake. Danny Buoy heads straight west to link up with A.R.S.E. Igor's Hope... which picks up the settler pair and plants 'em on the rockpile that was Furbomb.



Dispatch a couple of Gallics westward.

*****Theater of Operations

Take an unnamed Gallic on the north shore of The Other Continent and move him 2NW. He sees...nothing. This tempts me to send the second to go pillage their iron... but ..



First I wake up Flyin' Elvis ...do a little recon...



and find the TNT strike force.



I was thinking about sending the other Gallic to do a pillaging mission of the TNT iron... but that'll have to wait. The other Gallic heads 2S to get on a road. This gives me 8 Gallic Swords on the roads surrounding a town that'll be founded next turn.

****

Two turns from now we're going to have an interesting battle.

End the turn at 201gpt, Invention in 9.

City Builds next turn:
Dunderhead: MDI
Jesterton: Market <-- Might let us drop lux
Gilfach: Pike <-- dispatch to the front.
Cretinograph: Pike <-- Plan to dispatch to MIA frontier.
DuMass: Trebuchet <--the plan is to rush one per turn.

 

[scoutsout]

Let's see here... a couple of tactical notes.

We've got 9 Gallic Swordsmen (two Elite) on The Other Continent at the moment. Only one is not on the roads, and he's one move from being in position to whack something.



Next turn we'll have a town founded. We'll start the turn with 9 gallics on thier soil, and we can ship chain a Treb and another gallic there next turn.

I expect the TNT attack force to step out of the fog next turn, most likely on the tile NW of the horses. This will give them 4 Pikes and 5 Immortals on one tile. We'll have Ten Gallics and a Treb.

I plan to withdraw, and let them move again - onto the road NE of the Horses.

With careful positioning we can get 2 more gallics ship-chained over there, and we can commit our pike if need be.



The odds aren't exactly in our favor, but if we can get through the pikes we can shred the Immortals.

 

[Bede]

It's going to take at least rock slingers to put a dent in that stack, just way too many pikes. Can we dance around them and maybe pull somebody out of position?

Looking at the picture of the strike force we need at least a fortified pike and a treb (preferably two) to make mincemeat of it.

Strategically speaking, I think planning on a long term use of TNT's lands is the way to gor. Looks like a nice river network where our AGRI trait will play nicely for developing our science and tax farms and who cares about the corruption levels as we won't depend on those towns for raw commerce anyway.

(P)lay on, Macduff!