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Design: Religions

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Kael, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    The Religions:


    Theme: http://kael.civfanatics.net/images/Audio/Ordertheme.mp3
    The Order- Junil, the elder of the Gods, had promised to stay apart from the conflict on Earth. No one knows why he decided to change that, some say it was to combat the influence of the Ashen Veil, others that it was jealousy. Regardless of his reason he promised salvation to the least of men and asked only one thing in return, their obedience.

    State Religion allows access to:
    Basilica (building)
    Basilica (building)
    Confessor (unit)
    Crusader (unit)
    Valen Phanuel (world unit)
    Sphener (world unit)
    Social Order (civic)
    Unquestioning Obedience (technology)

    State religion denies access to:
    Eidolon (national unit)


    Theme: http://kael.civfanatics.net/images/Audio/Runestheme.mp3
    Runes of Kilmorph- Kilmorph is the goddess of the earth, she who dwells beneath. She formed children out of stone, the Dwarves, and taught them the secrets of metalworking. One of the first religions available to the men of the world Kilmorph will answer the prayers of men and even send her soldiers to defend their cities.

    State Religion allows access to:
    Dwarven Soldier (unit)
    Paramander (unit)
    Stonewarden (unit)
    Bambur (world unit)
    Arthendain (world unit)
    Arete (civic)
    Arete (technology)

    State religion denies access to:
    Eidolon (national unit)


    Theme: http://kael.civfanatics.net/images/Audio/Leavestheme.mp3
    Fellowship of Leaves- Deep in the woods the whispers of Elves linger. Ancient protectors uninvolved in the affairs of men some men have proven enough loyalty to them to learn their magic and even gain the assistance of the Elven Archers.

    State Religion allows access to:
    Elven Archer (unit)
    Priest of Leaves (unit)
    Yvain the Wood Elf (world unit)
    Kithra Kyriel (world unit)
    Guradian of Nature (civic)
    Hidden Paths (technology)


    Theme: http://kael.civfanatics.net/images/Audio/Dragontheme.mp3
    Cult of the Dragon-Forgotten and ignored by the gods some men have turned to worshipping the great dragons that once fought over the land and now lie dormant beneath it. Within the Kuriotate and Sheaim civilizations these groups have begun to gather in strength, forming small cults with very different agendas. But they all agree that dragons are divine and find their draconic gods to be much more accessible than empty prayers offered in the temples.

    A cult is unlike other religions, it can not be adopted as a state religion and makes your empire harder to manage and control. Having the Cult of the Dragon in one of your cities has the following effects.

    1. 20% of the living units produced in that city will start with the Cult of the Dragon promotion. If a Cult of the Dragon unit is in a tile owned by the holder of the Cult of the Dragon holy city he has a 3% chance to convert to serving that civilization.

    2. The Cult of the Dragon reduces the cities culture by 1 each turn. This can cause the city to be destroyed if it runs out of culture. This does not effect Kuriotate or Sheaim cities.

    This religion can only be founded by the Kuriotates or Sheaim.


    Theme: http://kael.civfanatics.net/images/Audio/Overlordstheme.mp3
    Octopus Overlords- The power beneath the Aegean waves is said to be more powerful than any other, but the Overlords are unfocused and follow a thousand different obscure agendas. The Disciples of the Overlords dare not expose themselves directly to the conflicting commands of their masters and instead use the poor as intermediaries. They are quickly driven insane by the process which the disciples prefer as it keeps them from manipulating the message. They also share the process of turning a Warrior into The Drown, undead thralls, a process with few volunteers.

    State Religion allows access to:
    Asylum (building)
    Cultist (unit)
    Stygian Guard (unit)
    The Drown (unit)
    Saverous (world unit)
    Hemah (world unit)
    Slavery (civic)
    Mind Stapling (technology)

    State religion denies access to:
    Paladin (national unit)


    Theme: http://kael.civfanatics.net/images/Audio/Ashentheme.mp3
    The Ashen Veil- Mages spent weeks in meditation, exploring the farthest reaches of the ethereal world. The demands of the body were ignored, and they survived sustained only by magic. Their efforts were rewarded, a sentience was contacted, dark and horrible. It whispered secrets into the mages minds, necromancy, diseases, sacrifical rites. It promised power in exchange for their blood, and they freely gave it.

    State Religion allows access to:
    Demons Altar (building)
    Diseased Corpse (unit)
    Ritualist (unit)
    Beast of Agares (national unit)
    Rosier the Fallen (world unit)
    Mardero (world unit)
    Sacrifice the Weak (civic)
    Corruption of Spirit (technology)

    State religion denies access to:
    Paladin (national unit)


    The Good Gods:

    Lugus- Angel of Light (Sun), god of the dawn, god of guardians, the everwatchful. Worshipped by The Empyrean

    Sirona- Angel of Wisdom (Spirit)

    Nantosuelta- Angel of Faith (Enchantment), who restored Sucellus to life

    Sucellus- Angel of Growth (Life), killed by Mulcurn and reborn, Sucellus was the Angel of Nature before he died but became the Angel of Life when he was reborn. Previously, Dagda was both the Angel of Life and Death. Worshipped by the Unblemished.

    Amathaon- Angel of Fertility (Creation)

    Junil- Angel of Justice (Law), worshipped by the Order


    The Neutral Gods:

    Kilmorph- Angel of the Earth (Earth), worshipped by the Runes of Kilmorph

    Oghma- Angel of Knowledge (Metamagic). Oghma is revered by many who pursue knowledge, especially those that chronicle it. He doesn't have typical churches or religious services but there are many libraries and schools that revere him and a vast hierarchy of those that keep and share information similiar to the structures of other churches. A sapere is a respected professional in this hierarchy that would be comparable to priests of other religions.

    Cernunnos- Angel of Nature (Nature), worshipped by the Fellowship of Leaves, Cernunnos was the father of Forests and one of Sucellus's greatest subordinates until he died. When Sucellus was reborn he gifted his authority over nature to Cernunnos.

    Arawn- Angel of Death (Death), Arawn is almost completly uninterested in what is happening in the world as his attention is on the underworld. He ignores what few worshippers he has.

    Dagda- Angel of Balance (Force)

    Tali- Angel of the Air (Air), worshipped by the Foxmen.

    Danalin- Angel of the Water (Water), worshipped indirectly by the Octopus Overlords (Danalin is sleeping and his nightmares are being influenced by Hastur and other demons under Mammon's control)


    The Evil Gods:

    Camulos- Angel of War (Chaos). Those that venerate Camulos don't comply to any organizational structure that anyone can understand. There are hundreds of factions and they are just as likely to fight each other as they are to fight other groups.

    Aeron- Angel of Hate (Body), spirit of rage, god of the berserkers. Worshipped by the Occis.

    Ceridwen- Angel of the Stars (Dimensional), who first brought magic to man. Worshipped by the Emrys

    Mammon- Angel of Greed (Mind). Worshipped by the Stewards of Inequity.

    Esus- Angel of Deception (Shadow), sacred to thieves and liars. Worshipped by the Council of Esus

    Mulcarn- Angel of Ice (Winter), killed by Kyorlin with the Godslayer. Worshipped by the White Hand

    Agares- Angel of the Night (Entropy), the greatest of angels, worshipped by the Ashen Veil

    Bhall- Angel of Fire (Fire), who fell at the end of the Age of Magic
     
  2. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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  3. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    What about the 16 other religions you said existed?
    Could we have a little flavor on them?
     
  4. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    Its just a religion worshipping each of the 21 gods. In the D&D game the religion varied from country to country, so Bhall was worshipped by the Orcs as the goddess of slaughter but in Braduk she was still worshipped in her ancient aspect as the queen of light.

    So that wouldn't translate very well into a civ4 model. I'' try to add a list of each of the gods so you can get a feel for each of them.
     
  5. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    I think that it will translate easily into Civ IV. What you do is create 21 different religions, each with different specialties, and each spanning a few spheres.

    Then you create the different temple upgrades and units to symbolize each of the different routes a civ can take worshipping that God.

    The Orcs would get a temple that gave them lots of happiness from sacrificing captives, and gave all units trained int he city a city raider one promotion.
    Braduk would get a maintenance reducing one that increased sight range from city borders.

    When I have some time I'll take whatever flavor you can give me and create the temple upgrades for each religion. Maybe the temples as well lol.
     
  6. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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  7. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    Now that i think about it wou don't need to have 21 religions.
    Here are the other ones needed:

    One with sun, and a little fire and spirit
    One combining life and nature and creation, with Creation dominant
    On combining Spirit and enchantment

    One of Metamagic alone
    Death with a smidgen of entropy
    Include a little more air with the Water one

    Chaos with a little fire and a lot of body
    Fire with chaos and a little entropy
    Min, with dimensional and shadow included
     
  8. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

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    Loads of religions strikes me as a "Fun on paper, impossible in reality" kind of idea.
    Three problems I can see:
    1. Creating even more religions with temples, specialities and disciples is a lot of work.
    2. I'm worried the religions would necessarily end up being uncomfortably similar, there is a limit to the variations we can make.
    3. More religions than civs (i.e. number of "players" in the game, since most people can't have too many before overloading the computer) could easily get frustrating.
     
  9. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    1. I think that this wouldn't be too dificult.
    2. Well each evil religion might be similar in geing evil, but would should be able to distinguish each of them.
    3. Well Kael had a great way of solving this. Say we create 5 different evil religions. There would be one tech for the first three, and one tech for the other too. These could only be research by evil civ's (evil will be an attribute you start this game with but game slowly change). Evil civ A researchs the first tech, and chooses to found one of the three religions. Then then evil civ B researchs the secodn tech and chooses one of the two religions. The other 3 religions can't be founded. However, quests might allow them, and civil wars could be started by one of these religions being founded in a good country through general unhappiness. This way, it would be very unlikely for there to be more religions that players, except in the late game when many players have been eliminated.
     
  10. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

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    Actually, the solution point 3. pretty much solves the problem of point 2. as well. In fact, if you have to chose one religion out of three, it may possibly be an advantage if the religions had fairly similar attributes, but different flavours.

    But I'm developing a sentimental attachment to the "old" religions :blush:
     
  11. Lunargent

    Lunargent Chieftain

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    hmm

    Ok, we have 5 religious techs in the tree.
    We have good, neutral and evil civs.

    We can have 15 religions from that without adding anything at all or making the tech tree into a bowl of spaghetti, and add just a few techs for the others.

    Say we have a good civ, and it goes for hunting, then philosophy. Next normally would be Elven Studies-if it was neutral. Elven studies can be renamed to a more generic tech name (nature studies), and only teach Fellowship of Leaves to a neutral civ that researches it. Our hypothetical good civ instead discovers the religion of Sucellus, Angel of Life (formerly nature).

    An evil civ that follows the same tech path would discover Aeron, god of hate and barbarians. (all just examples)

    The angel of greed could come to the first evil civ that researches taxation.

    The hard part, as I see it, is comming up with unique units and further techs and music and everything else that comes with 21 religions. How big do we want the download to get?
     
  12. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    Well we have 15 religions, so fifteen new techs. I don't see donwload size as an issue, we can just compress and break it up.
    Music is less of an issue. If neccesary we can duplicate music for similar religions.
    I find that coming up with units is easy once we divide the religions into charts with their spheres, advantages, disadvantages, founding tech, and alignment all shown.
     
  13. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    Don't worry, they'll still be there.
     
  14. Lunargent

    Lunargent Chieftain

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    My point was that we don't even need to add in new techs at all, just a combination of path versus alignment to determine what religion you get. That way, you can go for the religion you want, and have a good chance of getting it.

    Are there only 15 religions ? I count 21 gods in the OP. Which gods don't have religions?
     
  15. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    I meant 15 special techs. Ie: hidden paths.

    Well I think that combining some gods would work nicely, and some don't need a religion:
    1. Death wouldn't have a large enough following. Sidar will be able to build some death temples though.
    2. Metamagic-wouldn't involve in conflcits of mortals
    3. Winter is a minor civ and doesn't get a religion. Illian gets temples of ice though.
    4. Combine chaos and fire into a chaos religion. Loved by the orcs, and aggresive human civs.
    5. Nature is a subordinate of life, both are combined in Fellowship of Leaves.
     
  16. Lunargent

    Lunargent Chieftain

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    So, we are left with:

    Lugus
    Sirona
    Nantosuelta
    Amathaon
    Junil
    ______
    Kilmorph
    Cernunnos
    Dagda
    Tali
    Danalin
    _______
    Camulos/Bhall
    Aeron
    Ceridwen
    Mammon
    Esus
    Agares

    One more evil, but that's ok.

    So...first tech in religion path, combined with alignment, gives religion. Each religion branches off into its own specific tech such as hidden paths or divinaton. That's definately workable.
     
  17. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    In that case, I think that Aeron should also be melted into the chaos fire thing. Although it will end up kinda smushed, those three gods are all pretty similar. As you said, this is definetly workable. I've got some extra time now, want to work on that chart i mentioned earlier?
     
  18. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    Starting from the top:

    Lugus, god of the sun.
    Tech is Monotheism? Religious Law? Ancient Chants? I think he's that kinda guy.
    Sphere is the sun. Duh. Branches into fire and spirit as well though.
    Alignment = very good
    Advantages: Gets desert terrain bonuses. Likes sunlit open spaces. Gets sight bonuses, can kill vampires and demons easily. Gets good blazing angels.
    Disadvantages: Bad in jungles, can't use any evil units. Desert in their borders spreads like forests. Loses many bonuses when army is in in evil land. (better on defense, like mentioned in Kael's writeup).

    This is just some brainstorming.
     
  19. Lunargent

    Lunargent Chieftain

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    I think you should first look at the beginnings of the new tech chart posted in the technologies thread. So there is no more monotheism or religious law.

    But I like your ideas. All are good and add flavor.
     
  20. Lunargent

    Lunargent Chieftain

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    Sirona-angel of Wisdom.
    Tech- Drama
    Sphere- Spirit
    Alignment-good
    Advantages-culture bonus in all cities. Attacking civs gain increased war weariness. Defeated units have a small chance to resurrect as a spirit with 4 strength in foreign lands and 8 in homelands.
    Disadvantages-Cannot declare war on non-evil civs. (biggy!)
     

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