Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Morningcalm, Aug 14, 2016.
No, Albuquerque is not a leader, but a unique unit, a great general available only to Portugal.
Ohh, ok. Any idea how it would work? Thanks.
I am not an expert, but I am sure this should be very simple to do.
Leader: Leopold II
Belgium has never been represented in a Civilization game previously, so let’s change that. My thinking here is to go exactly opposite of my approach to Switzerland; whereas that was the kind of Civilization a player character would love to come across in the game, Belgium is going to be that Civ, the one that makes you groan to play against – but that you love to play as even more!
Civilization Ability: Colonization
When Belgium captures a city from another Civilization, it becomes a Belgian colony. One free builder instantly appears in the colony’s City-Center, and the colonial city can produce both Belgian unique units and structures as well as the founding Civilization’s unique units, buildings, districts, or improvements. Colonies suffer less of a penalty to production for lacking amenities.
Leader Ability: Free State
When harvesting a luxury resource in a colonized city, the population of that city can be lowered by one in order to create a permanent copy of that resource in Brussel’s City-Center.
Unique Unit: Force Publique
Replaces Musketman. Gains an attack advantage against Civilizations upon whom Belgium has declared a surprise war, and a defensive advantage against Civilizations who declare a war of reconquest or liberation against Belgium
Unique Infrastructure: Foreign Trading Post
Can only be built in colonies along trade routes connecting back to Belgium cities. Greatly increases the yields received by the Belgian cities, with an even greater increase if the route connect back to Brussels.
Leopold dislikes Civilizations from whom he has not captured at least one city, and likes Civilizations with whom he has signed a peace treaty with in the past.
Belgium will pick a war with you, will capture any city it can get its hands on, and before you can reconquer your territory it will strip the land of its resources and significantly lower the population.
Leopold II is far too controversial to ever make it into Civ VI or any Civ game IMO--his acts of mutilation, torture, destruction and slavery in the Congo caused major international scandal and effectively ended his kingship...I don't mind the idea of Belgium but Leopoldo II evokes images of sliced off Congolese hands (and the chocolates based on that Congolese colonial enterprise that I so despise).
Perhaps instead Leopold I of Belgium? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_I_of_Belgium
No, they mean that name can be used for a great person, but only for that civ.
Leader: Oba Ewuare
(also Ewuare the Great) was the king of the Benin Empire from 1440 until 1473. Ewuare became king in a violent coup against his brother Uwaifiokun which destroyed much of Benin City. After the war, Ewuare rebuilt much of the city of Benin, reformed political structures in the kingdom, greatly expanded the territory of the kingdom, and fostered the arts and festivals. He left a significant legacy and is often considered the first King of the Benin Empire.
Civilization Ability: Defensive Walls adds +1 trade route in each city one they reach medieval period.
Benin tradition credits Ewuare with constructing a huge system of walls and moats around the capital, Benin city. Ewuare also greatly increased the domain of the Benin Empire. He and his son, Ozolua, expanded the territory under Benin rule from the Niger River in the east to the eastern portions of Yoruba land in the west.
Leader Ability: Urban Royal Court
Urban royal court, and is meant to symbolize the power, mystique and endurance of the ruling dynasty and its governing institutions.
Ewauare gain city wall when taking a city if a city wall is already there they gain culture points.
Government structure was the biggest reform as bureaucracy replaced the kin-based system. Supreme power was held by the oba, who ruled through an assembly of chiefs and advisors representing various districts.
Ewuare greatly expanded the arts in Benin during his reign and was aided greatly in this through increased trade. Ewuare is generally credited with expanding ivory and wood carving in the empire and the creation of Bronze heads for shrines to deceased Obas. In addition, Ewuare began many of the royal decoration traditions involving coral. In both folktales and artistic representations, Ewuare is considered someone with significant magical powers. His herbal and magical knowledge is attested to in a number of significant art works from the era. Crucial in this is the creation during Ewuare of the Igue festival, which was originally celebrated as a festival to renew his magical powers
Unique Unit: Benin Ada Swordsman
Esigie was also a prolific patron of the arts. Under his rule, brass casting flourished, with casters achieving a highly refined style of naturalized idealism. Esigie was also the first oba to commission palace plaques, a new format with which Benin’s artists could honor ancestors, document exploits, and portray court life.
The swordsman units gain faith points when it kills a unit in the territory of their religion & gain culture points when it kills a you or is killed .
Unique Infrastructure: The Ile (Ifa Temple)
The Ile produce +1 culture and each one build produce 1 art work.
Ewuare goal is to build big defense in all of his cities and looks down on anyone who don’t have high defense and culture.
Civilization games need a few villains in the mix, and Leopold II is the perfect mix of iconic/notorious yet just enough historically removed, a la a Genghis Khan.
Moreover, his atrocities were of a more apolitical nature. Stalin or Mao have the negative association of communist mixed in with their crimes; likewise Hitler or Mussolini with Fascism. Few historical leaders ascribed to those ideologies. But every nation at some point along its existence had colonial ambitions. Colonialism has fallen out of favor in modern times, but it's far less a cause for condemnation than an interesting historical footnote.
This isn't an excuse for the genocide of the Congolese - just an assertion that a colonial-focused Belgian Civilization Pack wouldn't need to come with a free DLC that's just a read.me file with nothing but the words "Trigger Warning."
But Leopold II did little good for his country. He was not only a bad person, but a bad leader (Genghis Khan was a great leader, and perhaps not an entirely bad person, see the Yassa Code for example).
I don't think we need another Stalin or Mao-like figure, and Leopold II would be like that in terms of sheer controversy. I don't think Belgians (let alone anyone else) would let Civ get away with putting Leopold II in Civ proper. Maybe in a scenario (the same way they had Hitler in a WWII scenario for Civ IV via downloadable content).
ifasola, interesting Benin ideas. I think Benin is a fascinating civilization, and the leader choice is certainly worthy. Does the Ile in your version actually create an Artwork, or have a space for an Artwork? I think we need a more flavorful civ ability though--defensive walls sounds a bit too simple.
Please no... Not now, not ever.
The Congo Free State is not apolitical. Colonialism is condemned across the colonized world (as it was when the colonizations were happening), and justifiably so. I'm not sure how it can be called historically removed either when the contemporary DRC still suffers for Leopold's crimes.
All in all, what good reason is there to expend a slot on a limited roster of history's great civilizations on one of history's most dismal chapters? All of the current leader roster falls under enough grey moral shadows to serve as hero or villain to whoever is playing as/against them, but if I ever saw Leopold in-game I would just seek to eliminate him as quickly as possible. With extreme prejudice.
Wow, that's a really good designed civ, Platypus! Let's now analyze it part by part!
Wow, love this UA. Very RPG-ish and truthly epic! Will make Vietnam's first conflict into the stuff of legend!
I like its concept, but I think that in Civ 6 tiles / districts yields GP points as if they were any other yield such as food or science, and the game seems to have moved away from percenteage bonuses. Perhaps it could be more streamlined? I am thinking of something along these lines:
In times of peace, adyacency to unimproved jungle tiles and lakes gives your city centers and cultural districts +1 great artist points
In times of war, gain one extra military policy slot.
Good idea all around. Perhaps it could be remade in order to "play" more with the whole adyacency meta-game, but I really like the concept.
I love the idea about a super-ranger UU, as it reinforces Vietnam's role of a defensive, rather than offensive civ. Good stuff.
Re: Vietnam, what's a Water Puppet Theater? Did the theaters actually involve water and such? That sounds really cool and unique.
Well said, and seconded. Colonialism's impact is still felt today in many African countries, who have inherited and co-opted various mechanisms from colonialism that help keep (among others) warlords in power and the civil populace in fear. Leopold II is without a doubt one of the Worst Human Beings ever. (May he continue to rot in Hell).
His dad, at least, made some progress in Belgium that was not built on the corpses of innocents from Congo.
They were sort of a village cultural center where gossip, entertainment and other social activities took place. In the pre-medieval eras water puppet theaters were often made in rice paddies. The puppet artists were under the water, which concealed them and hid the puppet strings.
It's one of the reasons that almost every modciv uses them as a UB. Very Vietnamese.
Here's some more background on the Trungs:
Vietnamese soldiers to this day still carry pictures and trinkets of the Trungs as inspiration and perhaps; divine protection. They were supposedly fierce warriors, and national folk heroes still today. They were eventually defeated, but instead of surrendering, they chose suicide which was considered the more honorable option.
I made the bonuses for Vietnam very Civ5-ish until I understand how adjacency works. I was going to redesign the bonuses once more info is known.
I'm certainly open to change the numbers/mechanics around, I don't have a good handle on the Civ 6 mechanics as of yet and I'm certain something similar to what you suggested for the UA could be better incorporated by an experienced modder. I wanted to make the concepts strongly Vietnamese (if somewhat based on myth and lore).
I'm glad you like the aesthetics of it tho... I am actually adopted Vietnamese who grew up in America, and have tried to learn more about my native culture. I was surprised to see some of the popularity of the Civ5 Vietnam mods. TPangolin's Colonialist Legacies had a nice take on it which I play frequently. The only thing I disliked about his Vietnam was the UU Vietcong (infantry replacement) as it places too much emphasis on the whole modern Vietnam war imagery that colors western perception of the country as a whole.
double post- plz delete
Gathering the ideas for Portugal from Atlas627 and Ikael here is my hand on Portugal. One big issue is that both feitoria and padrao must be built of foreign lands, wich is actually correct with history. They built feitorias to be like a little city, since they were in others dominance lands. Padrão is not a lighthouse (more like a monument), it was built in hours/few days, with sailors carrying them from the Nau to shore, to edify them, and no more maintenance from their(no costs of maintenance)
Leader: Joao II
Leader Ability: Legacy of Henry the Navigator
- Has an extra Economic policy slot. Counterespionage activities performed by Portugal are more effective (will update when we know more game mechanics)
Henry had built a whole slew of sponsors and benefactors for his expeditions. Joao acquired a lot of money for the crown through this, and also by confiscating the lands of disloyal nobles (and by forcing them to actually pay their taxes). Joao was very effective at finding and uprooting conspiracies in his kingdom.
An economic policy slot is more effective the fewer of them you have, which will incentivize Portugal to consider running a Monarchy as opposed to a Merchant Republic and the like. More effective counterespionage should help an insular, protective playstyle.
Leader Agenda: O Principe Perfeito
- Likes Civs that have a low level of Diplomatic Visibility with him. Hates Civs that are caught using spies against him.
Joao started his reign with an intense consolidation of power, severely reducing the power of the nobles. As a result, they attempted several conspiracies against him, which he effectively shut down. He was also known, even as a child, for being immune to the influence of others and hating intrigue. The posthumous nickname "The Perfect Prince" refers to Machiavelli's "The Prince" and how Joao was a good example of that ideal.
I'm not sure if this Agenda will result in good gameplay, since you'll need high Diplomatic Visibility to find out his hidden agenda. I guess there might be a sweetspot that changes from game to game (if hidden agenda strength changes) that affects just how much visibility you want with Joao each game. I guess, if you want to be friends, you should leave Joao alone, but if you're willing to be enemies, you can know all about the happenings in his Civ.
Leader: Afonso de Albuquerque
Unique leader Ability: Mare Clausum
All your naval units might build a Padrao Unique Improvement by spending 3 turns
+1 range of attack for all your ranged naval units
Mare Clausum allows Portugal to greatly project their naval power by increasing the range of their naval units. However, this UA's power can only be fully understood when coupling with Portugal's unique improvement...
Leader Agenda: Conquest by sea
Afonso will hate civs that possess coastatal cities / harbor districts, and have a different religion than him, while liking civs that trades with him
Well, this is quite straightfoward. Afonso won't tolerate another sea bound empire, but you can surely mitigate his temper by trading with him.
Portugal UA:Early Globalization
Circunnavigating the globe will grant Portugal an extra diplomatic goverment slot
Stablishing an inter-continental trade route with a city state will grant you one free envoy with it.
Receive 2 Inspirations at random when you discover all continents.
Portugal's early globalization will greatly reward the player for embarking into great sea expeditions, while also reinforcing Portugal's influence within city states.
The Portuguese Empire thrived by finding various feuding local powers and agreeing to be a neutral party in exchange for trade rights. They would conquer trading centers that were profitable for competitors.
Portugal Unique unit: Nau
Unlocks at Cartography; replaces Caravel, and will be able to enter in city states territories irregardless of your level of influence with them.
Starts with the "Volta do mar" promotion, which gives +2 movement if there are no land tiles in sight range when it begins its turn. Also has the "Feitoria" promotion, which allows the unit to construct a Feitoria on an adjacent coastal tile owned by a City-State not on your home continent, one time only.
Also, Naus will be able to carry a unique "expedition" action when placed next to a coastal goodie hut. It will make them receive not only the goodie hut bonus, but also an extra amount of gold and culture (will be bigger the further away it is from your capital)
Did we mention that in civ 6 you won't be able to enter City States territories unless you're friends with them? Well, that's not the case for Portugal, which will be able to explore terrain that would be otherwise forbidden for other civs. When coupled with Portugal's UI, that means that Portugal will be able to discover CS and secure trade routes with them earlier than any other civ!
The Nau is the Portuguese name for the Carrack, a type of ship that was basically a bigger and stronger Caravel. The Portuguese were the first Europeans to master the currents and trade winds (Volta do mar) due to several advancements in technology.
One of these was the sail method that the Caravels and Carracks employed, which allowed the ship to go against the wind. The Portuguese experience with sailing out to sea helped them understand the pattern of trade winds and currents that would allow them to sail around the world quickly and consistently. The Portuguese used these expeditions to quickly set up shop in territories they discovered, establishing Feitorias (which are explained below).
The exploration bonus encourages Portugal to explore bits of the coast at a time, finding good places to settle/trade with, but little bits at a time and all over the place. Once you find a spot worth trading with, you can build a Feitoria to take advantage of it.
Leader Unique improvement: Padrão
Can only be constructed by a Nau and only be built in coastal City State terrain, on a foreign continent.
Padraos grant Portugal one free envoy to that coastal city state, while decreasing all foreign envoys by one and closing them the access to that city state territory. These effects won't stack up (so you won't get 3 free envoys for building 3 padraos).
It provides faith equal to the adjacency bonus of the Harbor.
No costs of maintenance
Building Padraos, Portugal's UI is a great strategy for drecreasing your opponent's sway with city states. Also, keep in mind that on civ 6 units can't traverse city state territories until they have good relationships with them, so Portugal's UI will be great at boxing and suffocating your opponents!
Padraos (monuments) are markers erected by Portuguese explorers when they made landfall, as a land claim. They featured the Portuguese coat of arms and were shaped like a large stone cross. They were often located on outcroppings of land so they'd be visible from the sea.
Portugal unique building: Feitoria
Replaces harbor. Must be built on a harbor district or in the city center of a coastal city, on a foreign continent.
+1 production and culture to all working boats and atolls in this city
Provides extra amenities for each trade route with a city state that the city has
This improvement provides significant yields in food, production, and gold to its tile. When Portugal trades with this City-state, the trade route provides a large amount of extra gold, and even more if Portugal is the Sovereign.
Feitorias consolidates Portugal's role as a naval civ, while synergizing with its other uniques and rewarding the player for stablishing trade with city states.
Feitoria is the Portuguese word for Factory. Basically, these were fortified trade and production centers established on coasts around the world to trade with natives.
This improvement encourages Portugal to grab City-state allies overseas, and to form trade routes with them. Giving bonuses for being the sovereign encourages Portugal to explore quickly, and giving the improvement high yields encourages opponents to attack City-states Portugal wants (it also encourages Portugal to take its own CS using its UA).
In short, Portugal will be a civilization apt at exploration, trade, and diplomacy with far-away lands!
The Portuguese benefit from being a coastal empire. They may want to trade or conquer City-states far away due to their Feitoria and UA.
For fans of Manuel I please help me with is Agenda and UA.
My Suggestion to his agenda: The Fortunate or Imperial Growth
My suggestions to his UA: Manueline - royal absolutism, ferverous religious and building style
I work on the civ and now
Ewauare gain city wall when taking a city as well city walls have a slot for great work. and the Ile makes a great work but don't have a slot for it. What you think?
I only meant apolitical in the sense that it's not a partisan ideology that falls on one end of the political spectrum and not another. All great civilizations engaged in colonial conquest.
I wanted to create a Civilization in-game whose mechanics centered around colonialism. Given such is the most notable (albeit not the most celebrated) chapter in Belgian history (as non-Belgians see it at least), such seemed a good candidate.
And of course, as the effects of the past continue to ripple across history, we all continue to feel the consequences of the reigns of all these leaders in one way or another. Something like 3% of humans alive today are direct decedents of Genghis Khan. Some of those effects are bound to be negative.
I've always taken the "Man of the Year" approach to Civilization's leaders. Greatness does not imply goodness. Hitler was neither a good leader nor a good man, but absolutely merited his 1938 "honor" from Time Magazine. Likewise with Leopold II in Civilization VI. It's not a commendation.
Here are some ideas for alternate French leaders:
Louis the IX
Leader Ability: Canonized King
Build siege weapons in less time.
Pay no maintenance cost on siege units or ground units attached to them while they are besieging an enemy civilization's City-Center
Units besieging a city gain Faith points equal to the yields of the tiles surrounding the City-Center.
Siege units have increased effectiveness against Holy Cities of foreign religions.
Leader Ability: Sun King
Every time France receives a Eureka bonus along the Civics tree, select one yield in the Palace (culture, faith, gold, production, or science) to permanently increase.
The same yield can be selected an unlimited number of times, and the bonus is relative to the era in which it was acquired (e.g. boosting Craftsmanship in the Ancient era will gain France a +1 to any yield, but boosting Enlightenment in the Renaissance era will gain France +4 to any yield).
Leader Ability: Vive la Revolution!
Killing units from enemy Civilizations nets France minor bonuses to its current Government Legacy Bonus, and capturing foreign cities nets major bonuses to such (more so even for Capitals).
French ground units gain a significant bonus to attack on the turn after switching their Government.
Speaking as a Belgian here, this view is a pretty inaccurate one?
Belgium is a permanently bickering couple united under the banner of one big state, where the two linguistic majority groups hate each other but still stick together. We're the Pinky & The Brain, the Tom & Jerry, the Al & Peggy Bundy of this world.
What would make more sense for Belgium is UA centered around state reform which has been a hot topic here since our independence:
CIV ABILITY: STAATSHERVORMING: unlocking new types of government provides one additional amenities for one city in the empire. +1 culture in the capital for every policy enacted.
Leopold II is a good pick for a leader, if a controversial one. Personally, I feel like Albert I is the best pick, a king who did his best to unite both the Flemish and French-speaking sides under one state.
LEADER ABILITY: L'UNION FAIT LA FORCE: Gain a diplomatic boost with your neighbours, Cities gained through means other than direct conquest give no warmonger penalties and gain extra amenities
(example: the Aztecs capture Orleans from France, who are Belgium's neighbour. If Belgium then starts a Liberation war and captures Orleans for themselves (or are gifted any city by Monty through a trade deal), they will have no warmonger penalty with the other AIs, and Orleans will have one extra amenity. This would not work if they captured, Tenochtitlan for themselves as that counts as direct conquest.)
As for the UU, I'm not really sure. Personally, I like the idea of Rijkswacht, mounted police: Basically a faster cavalry unit which reduces War Weariness in adjecent friendly cities and lowers city defence in adjecent enemy puppeted or annexed cities.
Unique Improvement would be the Belfrey, which replaces the fort and provides extra LOS and adjecency bonus yields to nearby districts.
Albert I's unique agenda makes him friendly to any civ who settles within trade range of his cities and liberates cities. He will be unfriendly to any civ who conquers cities within trade range of his own cities.
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