Merged a pull request by merijn_v1: African elephant variety for Ivory
[Development] Alternative Map during 1.17
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
New update: adjusted terrain in South America
This is mostly a direct translation of Krieger-FS's suggestions, with the following differences:
- removed all postcolonial resources
- removed or moved some food resources that created obvious super city spots
- restored Obsidian at the Chaitén volcano
- restored marsh at the Darién gap
- extended savanna into the Amazon basin
This is mostly a direct translation of Krieger-FS's suggestions, with the following differences:
- removed all postcolonial resources
- removed or moved some food resources that created obvious super city spots
- restored Obsidian at the Chaitén volcano
- restored marsh at the Darién gap
- extended savanna into the Amazon basin
Krieger-FS
Warlord
Leoreth, I took a look on the map and want to give few small suggestions/comments about South America:
- I would keep the two tea resources near Paraguay (in-game in Argentina and Brazil) as pre-colonial. They represent the yerba mate, a native plant cultivated since indigenous era.
- Likewise, I'd remove the gold in Guyana, which should spawn only late in-game (i.e., post-independence). These mines were only discovered in XX century.
- The gems in Colombia represent emeralds. Given recent discussions about resource variety and the place of turquoises (green gems) and jade, I was wondering if emerald shoud be represented by gems or jade.
- A small terrain change that only came to my mind after I've made my post: I would switch two jungle to rainforests titles to make a path between North Bolívia and Brazilian state of Acre (the city spot of Rio Branco in Western Amazon). This area was formally Bolivian until 1903, when it was annexed by Brazil in a similar manner that US did with Texas, so it makes sense that it should be accessible from North Bolivia.
- I would keep the two tea resources near Paraguay (in-game in Argentina and Brazil) as pre-colonial. They represent the yerba mate, a native plant cultivated since indigenous era.
- Likewise, I'd remove the gold in Guyana, which should spawn only late in-game (i.e., post-independence). These mines were only discovered in XX century.
- The gems in Colombia represent emeralds. Given recent discussions about resource variety and the place of turquoises (green gems) and jade, I was wondering if emerald shoud be represented by gems or jade.
- A small terrain change that only came to my mind after I've made my post: I would switch two jungle to rainforests titles to make a path between North Bolívia and Brazilian state of Acre (the city spot of Rio Branco in Western Amazon). This area was formally Bolivian until 1903, when it was annexed by Brazil in a similar manner that US did with Texas, so it makes sense that it should be accessible from North Bolivia.
Thanks for the additional review and feedback:
- good to know that it's yerba mate, would be cool to have alternative art for this resource as well at some point, but I will restore it.
- emeralds are gems in my opinion, we don't have specific emerald art yet but I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere.
- good to know that it's yerba mate, would be cool to have alternative art for this resource as well at some point, but I will restore it.
- emeralds are gems in my opinion, we don't have specific emerald art yet but I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere.
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
I think based on visual cues, Gems generally look more "glassy" (translucent), like sapphire, ruby, and emerald; while Jade-like stones are usually more opaque, like turquoise and opal.
By the way, here's a fully zoomed out view on the entire world map:
The thumbnail from this almost looks like satellite imagery! Good work everyone, Bautos in particular, but also everyone else who contributed.
Spoiler :
The thumbnail from this almost looks like satellite imagery! Good work everyone, Bautos in particular, but also everyone else who contributed.
Last edited:
New update: used actual map in globe view for scenario selection screen
Now that I know how this works I think it's even possible to create a screenshot that shows cultural borders and use that for the later scenarios, so you can actually get a feeling of how the world looks like at that date.
Spoiler :
Now that I know how this works I think it's even possible to create a screenshot that shows cultural borders and use that for the later scenarios, so you can actually get a feeling of how the world looks like at that date.
Nice!
need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
Lake Victoria looks oddly pretty. As does that map on the loading screen!
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
This looks so nice! This is a long-envisioned dream finally come true. How did you do this?
ozqar
King
Hey, some thoughts on how the world map looks now (compared to a Robinson projection)
- Florida could look more like a straight vertical line (a 3 tile N-S line?)
- The West coast of the Hudson Bay is too open, could do with a line of tiles (to make the bay narrower)
- Madagascar could be shifted 2 tiles SW or so, it's more accurate in relation to Mozambique
- All of Southern Africa looks too fat (everything from the Congo basin and south) - not sure what solution to propose - someone said earlier that southern Africa looks too flat, I think that contributes to the issue.
- That little peninsula in India, next to Mumbai, would look more accurate if was just attached to the mainland (ie, add a tile east of it), at this map scale it doesn't make sense to portray it as a peninsula (although it is one in real life)
- The Baltic sea is far too fat (I'd mentioned before) - I know you don't want to extend continents as in the proposal I had made, but perhaps you can think of a different solution; perhaps you could also look at the northern coast of Germany and Poland, which is too flat right now
- Australia is too far north in relation to Indonesia, Africa, and New Zealand. 1 or 2 tiles south would be better. The Papua Island should also be moved 1S accordingly.
- Also, just to confirm - in the proposals I made before to Europe, I had included one to add four tiles of land on the western coast of the Black sea (to Bulgaria, Romania, and Ukraine). I think that helps both the shape of the countries and the water. That wasn't reliant on any continental shift or expansion like the ones you've banned. Have you settled for not including that? Or if you haven't given it much thought, could you consider it?
For your consideration, Southeast Asia looks very distorted in relation to the Himalayas, Indonesia and India. The space between the Bangladesh coast and the Himalayas is too short, i think the coastline should be further south. Compare the latitude of Dhaka and Karachi - they're the same in the map, while in real life Dhaka is much further south. The Malay peninsula should also reach much further south, compare the latitude of Singapore and Colombo (same issue). The space between Pagan and Hanoi also looks to narrow, I think the problem is in Myanmar, not sure.
- Florida could look more like a straight vertical line (a 3 tile N-S line?)
- The West coast of the Hudson Bay is too open, could do with a line of tiles (to make the bay narrower)
- Madagascar could be shifted 2 tiles SW or so, it's more accurate in relation to Mozambique
- All of Southern Africa looks too fat (everything from the Congo basin and south) - not sure what solution to propose - someone said earlier that southern Africa looks too flat, I think that contributes to the issue.
- That little peninsula in India, next to Mumbai, would look more accurate if was just attached to the mainland (ie, add a tile east of it), at this map scale it doesn't make sense to portray it as a peninsula (although it is one in real life)
- The Baltic sea is far too fat (I'd mentioned before) - I know you don't want to extend continents as in the proposal I had made, but perhaps you can think of a different solution; perhaps you could also look at the northern coast of Germany and Poland, which is too flat right now
- Australia is too far north in relation to Indonesia, Africa, and New Zealand. 1 or 2 tiles south would be better. The Papua Island should also be moved 1S accordingly.
- Also, just to confirm - in the proposals I made before to Europe, I had included one to add four tiles of land on the western coast of the Black sea (to Bulgaria, Romania, and Ukraine). I think that helps both the shape of the countries and the water. That wasn't reliant on any continental shift or expansion like the ones you've banned. Have you settled for not including that? Or if you haven't given it much thought, could you consider it?
For your consideration, Southeast Asia looks very distorted in relation to the Himalayas, Indonesia and India. The space between the Bangladesh coast and the Himalayas is too short, i think the coastline should be further south. Compare the latitude of Dhaka and Karachi - they're the same in the map, while in real life Dhaka is much further south. The Malay peninsula should also reach much further south, compare the latitude of Singapore and Colombo (same issue). The space between Pagan and Hanoi also looks to narrow, I think the problem is in Myanmar, not sure.
I think these are all worth considering, so I'm putting this up for discussion to everyone now. Let me reiterate that my pushback on continental size changes was to prevent people from expanding coastlines everywhere out of the desire to achieve a greater level of detail for the region they were currently working on because that would just result in disproportionality with the rest of the world.
Now if here the goal is to restore proportionality or relative positions of land masses to each other I am not opposed to it, so don't feel limited in concrete proposals that attempt to address that.
Personally I think the global map helps a lot in spotting these sorts of issues, I will go back to your individual points and think about them some more and then come back with my perspective on them.
I changed some settings to allow you to fully zoom out without the cloud layer appearing (by doing this) and then just took a screenshot.
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
Tried my hand at this suggestion, and it looks like this: (Idk how to fill up the new tiles, though)
Spoiler Adjusted Bengal and Burma regions :
I managed to look at the new map in game, for once, and I noticed one small detail: the murex snails have some water ring pattern under them that doesn’t look great. It is also not animated. The other shellfish resources have no pattern or have one that is subtle and animated.
ozqar
King
Great - looking forward to other people's comments!
Great to hear! Perhaps also I should also remind you / point out again the changes to the Mascarenes Islands that I included in the Spain post earlier, as well as the addition of the Mallorca.
For Southeast Asia, h0spitall3rz I can't spot what changes you made, although it seems like Myanmar is now fatter and with its western part of Myanmar better represented compared to how it looks on Robinson. Is the Bay of Bengal smaller now? An idea would be to push SEAsia eastwards, but I think this falls within what's not allowed. I'm actually not entirely sure of how to interpret the restrictions for size changes now.
Another change would be extending the Malay peninsula southwards (add one single tile to make the peninsula longer)), shifting Indonesia and Australia (without changes) soouthwards would also be good. I think southern Vietnam and Cambodia are great as they are, I see the issue might be rather in northern-cengral Thailand and/or in south/western Myanmar.
Without having taken the time to look at it in detail, my impression that the Cambodia/Vietnam part of SEA is already suffienciently enlarged and that if there are problems with the whole subcontinent it's more along the north-south axis than east-west.
This looks too flat in general IMO.
I feel like in Burma, the central valleys should be separated from Chittagong and the western coast by a mountain range, possibly with some jungle hills mixed in. To get from India or western Burma, to central Burma by land, you should have to follow the coast down to the Irrawaddy Delta, from where you could go north, following the Irrawaddy River.
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