[Development] City Name Suggestions

[SBlack]

Tried both Shift + ~ and Ctrl + ~ but console wouldn't open.
City names in former AH land are in German, places i think wont be core are roman>modern

Spoiler :

And could there be solution for Sicily resources to spawn depending on where the first city is settled, as of now nobody will ever settle Syracuse or Palermo.

 

[ozqar]

- Dublin (S) -> Waterford. Since Dublin has 2 tiles, there's room for another name here. However, since there's a cow on the geographically correct location I'm not entirely sure where Dublin is "supposed to be" - if it's supposed to be on this tile then obviously scrap Waterford and make the Dublin (N) tile Armagh (a bit far south, but the most important city between Dublin and Belfast IMO).

I really like all the changes you proposed, but in Ireland, it's sad this makes it impossible to ever have Dublin + Cork or Dublin + Belfast. The bigger question is of course if we'd rather see the larger more recognizable cities even if they're slightly off (that would be my preference) or if we'd have an geographicaly more accurate city name where we see these more obscure cities in games.

By the way, Cork and Limerick are the other way around - but that's beyond my question. Concretely, I'd be comfortable seeing Dublin (as a 2nd spot) in Waterford's tile, and Cork in Tralee's tile.

 

[borhap88]

I couldn't get the python console to work (did ctrl+~ but no dice), but I didn't want my work to go to waste.
Here's a Roman (plus technically Greek, since "Rhegion" and "Hipponion" are very Greek names from the old Magna Graecia colonies) map of Roman cities.
I'll keep trying to get the python console working, I suppose.

Hipponion refers to current town of Vibo Valentia, which was less important than other Greek colonies in that tile (by the way, Hipponion/Vibo Valentia should be in the spot of Rhegion). I propose, in the place of Hipponion:
1) if Greek, Sybaris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybaris);
2) if Roman, Cosentia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosenza), ancient capitol of Italic people of Bruttii, then capitol of Calabria Citra (red colored in the second map), which better matches the tile of Hipponion.

 

[Krieger-FS]

I'm too tried both ways to open the console and didn't worked.

Anyway, bellow the suggested native (Inca) city names for Andean South America. Please note that because the native peoples in the region didn't had a formal writing system, so the spelling of the city names can vary widely. As an informal rule, I gave preference for the ones that seemed least hispanized. Another note is that the Inca, as an empire, had conquered many peoples and not everyone of them were organized in urban/permanent settlements. So not every name mentioned here are proper cities, but refer to larger areas. The Inca administration was divided in four large regions (the suyus) which were futher divided in provinces (wamani), many of them named by the native tribes which lived in them. Hence, this proposed list should not be taken as definitive and I would love some feedback/suggestions.

Colombia and Ecuador:

Spoiler :

Teyuna: added as easter egg. Known as Ciudad Perdida and is older than the Inca.
Chunsa: a Muisca capital, nowadays Tunja.
Bacatá: another Muisca capital, origin of the name Bogotá.
Males: an indigenous city fortified by the Inca. Nowadays is Córdoba, in the Nariño department.
Kitu Kara: modern Quito and one of the northern capitals of the empire. I've found several spellings for the Inca name but choose the one used by Civ VI.
Jocay: modern Manta, another pre-Inca city.
Ingapirka: a large Inca fortress, located near the city of Cañar. Ideally should be 1E, on the mountain title.
Tumebamba: modern-day Cuenca. Before the Inca was called Guapondelig by the natives and was rebuilt, in similar fashion to Cuzco, to be a northern capital by Huayna Cupac.

North Peru:

Spoiler :

Tumbes: originally named by the indigenous peoples living there (Tumpis), became an Inca city and regional center.
Tucume: an old city conquered by the Chimú and Inca. Nowadays is an archeological site near the cities of Túcume and Chiclayo.
Kashamarka: modern-day Cajamarca. Pre-Inca large city.
Chan Chan: capital of Chimú Kingdom. Its ruins are located very closely of the modern city of Trujillo.
Wanakupampa: also known as Huánuco Pampa, was one of the northern capitals built in similar fashion to Cuzco. Also in ruins.
Pachakamaq/Rimaq: Pachakamaq was a very old (founded around 200 CE) and large city when was conquered by the Inca, also known by its large religious complex and is located 40 kilometers southeast of Lima. Rimaq was town of a same name tribe in modern Lima. I suggest that we use Pachakamaq as city name for the Inca and change it to Lima upon colonial conquest.
Kuelap: probably the capital of the Chachapoyas, who were conquered by the Incas. Located in the Peruvian Amazon, its ruins were only discovered in XIX century.
Purunllacta: another city of the Chachapoyas. Only remain in ruins.
Hatun Shausha: another pre-Inca city converted in regional center during their empire. Nowadays city of Jauja.

South Peru and Bolivia:

Spoiler :

Inkawasi: an early Inca administrative-military center (alternatively spelling Incahuasi). In ruins, it is near the city of San Vincente de Cañete.
Willkawaman: another important administrative center and a large city during Inca era (alternatively sepelling Willka Waman). Modern city of Vilcashuáman.
Wilkapampa: capital of the neo-Inca. Hispanicized as Vilcabamba, but currently known as Espiritu Pampa. Alternatively, this title could also be Antawaylla, the Quechua name of modern Andahuaylas.
Qusqu: capital of the Inca.
Raqch'i: famous for being a control point for the Inca road system and for its temple. Alternatively spelled as Racchi. In ruins nowadays.
Hatunqulla: (or Hatun Colla/Hatun Qulla)capital of the Aymara kingdom of Colla (or Qulla). Located between modern cities of Puno and Juliaca, near Titicaca.
Naska: more the name of the region and its peoples than a particular city. The most important Nazca (culture) city was Cahuachi (close to modern city of Nazca), but this city was apparently abandoned long before the Inca conquest.
Mawk'allaqta: a large urban, probably religious, complex in the region. In ruins nowadays and located in San Antonio, a small city in Arequipa department.
Ari Qepay/Ariqipa: another case of a name more of the region than a city. There was several small towns in the area during Inca era and many of them that still exist, but I gave preference to a name that ensures a nice historical continuity.
Mukiwa: (alternative spelling Muquehua, modern Moquegua) was an old city that existed since Tiwanaku era. Alternatively, it could be Takana, which was the name of a region that gave the modern Tacna its name.
Chuqyapo Marka: this is the historical and current name of La Paz in Aymara language, originally refered more to the region than the particular settlement. The city itself existed since pre-Inca era, although was small back then.
Samaypata: an Inca city/fortress located in the border between their empire and Guaranis peoples. Modern Samaipata.
Pariya: apparently was the main Inca administrative center in Bolivian Altiplano. Although I know that we cannot found cities in salt flats, I've added just as an alternative city name. Nowadays is the small town named Paria.
Chuqichaka: another case of a name more of the region than of a particular village and is the modern Quechua name of Sucre. The city itself was founded over a indigenous Charca town with same name. Alternatively, it could also be Huruncuta (or Oruncota), an Inca provincial capital between modern Sucre and Potosí currently in ruins, or even Q'ochapampa (or Kochaj-pampa), a city that became the modern Cochabamba.

Chile and Argentina:

Spoiler :

Ariaka: more the name of the region than a specific settlement, named by the Tiwanaku. It gave Arica the modern name.
Tarapacá: supposely the main settlement (also called Caserones, but I couldn't find if is a Spanish name or not) in the region, inhabited since 12th century CE. Is the modern San Lorenzo de Tarapacá. Alternatively, we could use Iki Iki, another case of more a region name than a city and origin of modern Iquique, or Tulor (a mud-built city near San Pedro de Atacama), even though this city would be more accurately placed on the salt flat.
Antofagasti: again a case of region name and gave the name to modern Antofagasta.
Copayapu: identical case to the above, home of the Diaguitas peoples. Gave the name to modern Copiapó.
Qulqi Tampu/Coqimpu: name of the main tambo of the area and also regional capital. Gave the name to modern Coquimbo.
Kanannay: another case of region name and gave the current name to modern Canela.
Q'illu Uta: (or Qullallust'a) a regional capital (Chili wamani), modern Quillota.
Mapocho: the latest researches and archeologic escavations revealed that modern Santiago was founded above an important Inca city, built in similar fashion to Cuzco. Anyway, the city was supposely named after the river Mapocho.
Tastil: built by the Atacameño people and conquered by the Inca. Currently in ruins and located near Santa Rosa de Tastil. Alternatively could be Pukara de Tilcara, a fortified city/fortress near Tilcara.
Sikuani: built by the Diaguitas, became a regional capital under the Inca. It is close to modern Chicoana.
Shincal: a pre-Inca town, became the main city in its wamani. Only ruins remains.
Kilmes: one of the first indigenous proper urban centers in Argentina, named after the Kilmes peoples. Only ruins remains.
Chileo: more the name of the region than a proper city. It is the place where are located some of the most important Inca ruins in Argentina. Near modern Chilecito.

There are other minor Inca tambos/settlements/fortress (pukara) south, reaching the area near Mendoza, however I've only found with Spanish names, so I don't know if we want to include them.

In another note, I think that in the future is important to discuss the indy cities in the region. As you all may know, the Inca were empire-building conquerors and Peru was one of the cradles of civilization, with large urban centers existing since 3000 BCE. In the current map, we have Tiwanaku, Tucume and Chan Chan (placed in modern Lima) spawning as independents. While Chan Chan and Tucume seems to represent the Chimú Kingdom (the archenemy of the Inca, conquered few decades before the Spanish arrival), Tiwanaku feels out of place, because their kingdom fell apart and the city itself was abandoned centuries before the Inca. In a poorly comparison, it is more or less having Babylon to be the main Mesopotamian city by the time of Arab expansion.

So, as suggestions for indy cities, I would recomend Chan Chan (capital of Chimú), Pachakamaq/Rimaq (Pachakamaq was one of the largest cities and most important religious centers in the Andes, while also would be a nice way to ensure that Lima would exist), and any of the suggested cities in Bolivia to represent the Aymara kingdoms that existed in the area during the Inca conquest (ideally, it would be Hatunqulla in Peru, but it can't coexist with Cuzco, so can be any other city).

 

[DC123456789]

I think you have to have the chipotle cheat code active to open the console.

 

[Leoreth]

That's possible.

 

[Krieger-FS]

I think you have to have the chipotle cheat code active to open the console.

Yeah, you are right. It worked now.
Below the .txt file with my Inca suggestions.

 

[Steb]

I worked on eastern Canada and adjacent areas in the US. It's not complete, but the essential cities are there. For the main cities along the St. Lawrence valley and great lakes, I allowed two tiles because they are more important than the smaller towns around them, and I expect there to be some variation during colonization. In the maritimes I wasn't sure whether to put early Acadian settlements vs. more modern cities, so you get a mix of both.

Note that this assumes the lake in Labrador has been moved as I suggested in the map suggestion thread.

Spoiler :

 

[Publicola]

...And today I learned that the original name for the city of Toronto was actually 'York'. Cool.

 

[Steb]

Here's my work on Mesoamerica. I find sources about the area hard to find and their reliability difficult to assess, so it's not perfect work. Also it's sometimes difficult to gauge which settlement was the most important in an area. But it should be a good starting point.

The names in orange are corrections and additions that I did when I didn't have the game around. (I've updated CitiesDiff manually after.) Question marks indicate suggestions that would require removing or moving the peaks.

Despite the enlargement, Teotihuacan would still be on the same tile as Tenochtitlan.

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

I think Calakmul is too important to be missing in this map.

 

[Steb]

I think Calakmul is too important to be missing in this map.

And it’s there, under its ancient name Ox Te’ Tuun.

There are a few other ancient names on the map, like Lakamha (Palenque) and Oxwitik (Copan).

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, I didn't know those were the same cities.

 

[TJDowling]

And it’s there, under its ancient name Ox Te’ Tuun.

There are a few other ancient names on the map, like Lakamha (Palenque) and Oxwitik (Copan).

It's possible to have names change without changing hands right? Perhaps there should be a provision for those names changing.

 

[ozqar]

I was going to ask / propose something similar. In Mesoamerica, many cities that were dominant in their regions were later abandoned, with new cities eventually taking over. In many cases, the rise of a city is directly tied to the fall of another one, with the elites simply moving from the older to the newer city. This is the case for example of Uxmal and Mayapan, that should all in the same tile but show up at different times.

Would it be possible to have a succession such as this:
Ooxmaal (starting name), in 1200 CE change to Maayapaan, upon conquest change to Mérida

 

[Leoreth]

It's possible to have names change without changing hands right? Perhaps there should be a provision for those names changing.

Sure that's possible, for example by tech, era, or column in the tech tree.

 

[stormogulen]

Now, my take on Scandinavia.

The first screenshot is for Denmark and most of Sweden (I guess the Hedeby tile should rather count as natively German than Danish).

Spoiler Denmark and Sweden :

Second is most of Norway. The configuration of Tønsberg and Skien may be a bit questionable from a geographical point of view, but I would prefer to have both included as they have very long history and are reasonably large today.

Spoiler Norway :

Finally, Finland and the north. Of course, under the Vikings many of the cities in Finland should have Swedish names instead of the Finnish names I put on the map.

Spoiler Finland :

On the maps above, I tried to mostly include towns that were around already in the middle ages (especially in Denmark, Norway and Sweden). Below I have written down some suggested historical name changes and progressions to cities that were founded or became important later. Maybe all these name changes are a bit too elaborate for some of the minor Scandinavian settlements.

Spoiler Name/city changes :

Denmark
Ribe -> Esbjerg (1864)
Roskilde -> København (~1440)

Sweden
Ronneby -> Karlskrona (1680)
Lödöse -> Göteborg (1621)
Birka -> Sigtuna (~980) -> Stockholm (1252)
Tingvalla -> Karlstad (1584)
Selånger -> Sundsvall (1621)

Norway
Sarpsborg -> Fredrikstad (1567)
Oddernes -> Kristiansand (1641)
Oslo -> Kristiania (1624) -> Oslo (1925)
Bjørgvin -> Bergen (~1400)
Kaupanger -> Florø (1860)
Borgund -> Ålesund (~1600)
Veøy -> Molde (1614)
Nidaros -> Trondheim (~1500)
Tjøtta -> Mosjøen (1876) / Mo i Rana (1923)
Vågar -> Kabelvåg (~1500)
Trondenes -> Harstad (1904) / Narvik (1902)

Finland
Korsholm -> Vasa (~1600) (Swedish/Viking names on Vaasa tile)

 

[Steb]

I was going to ask / propose something similar. In Mesoamerica, many cities that were dominant in their regions were later abandoned, with new cities eventually taking over. In many cases, the rise of a city is directly tied to the fall of another one, with the elites simply moving from the older to the newer city. This is the case for example of Uxmal and Mayapan, that should all in the same tile but show up at different times.

I have to say I'm not a big fan of cities being renamed to represent a different city in general. (This is different from giving a city a new name that refers to the same city, which I like a lot.)

There are cases where it's justifiable, of course, but outside of specific situations I find such renaming immersion-breaking. This is especially true if there's nothing besides the passage of time (date/tech/era) to trigger the change. A more dramatic event—conquest or collapse—provides a better justification; thus Babylon should become Baghdad because it is conquered, not because some arbitrary time point has been reached.

The case of the Maya is interesting because there's been a lot of rising and falling within the same civilization over a long time period and within a small area. We could produce a city name map based on the Maya civilization at the time of conquest and it would be much—perhaps completely—different from the same map during the Classic Maya period. I struggled with that somewhat in researching city names, for instance in considering Kaminaljuyu and Q'umarkaj, two very important cities in the same area (Guatemalan highlands) but in very different time periods.

It'd be interesting to provide the possibility of renames for Uxmal/Mayapan and Kaminaljuyu/Q'umarkaj (and possibly others), but I'd rather have these renames be tied to a collapse or respawn of the Maya civilization. (If the city is founded after the trigger condition already occurred, the later name would be chosen too.)

I haven't worried at all about post-contact names, but of course it would make sense to rename many pre-Columbian cities when they are conquered (e.g. Mérida, Veracruz, Guatemala, etc.).

 

[Krieger-FS]

My take to Brazil, a mixture of old and new cities.
There are few cases that I think that both the older and newer cities that shared the title were so important in their respective times that both deserve being listed. One of the most proeminent case is Ouro Preto (former Minas Gerais capital and an important political-economic center during the colonial times) and Belo Horizonte (founded in 1893, nowadays state capital and the third largest city in Brazil). Anyways, I've made the obvservations in each case.

NE:

Spoiler :

• Fortaleza had originally been an area with few forts, hence its name. The oldest one is the Portuguese Fortim de São Sebastião (1613), but it was destroyed few decades after. Then the Dutch built Fort Schoonenborch (1649), who was taken by the Portuguese in 1654 and renamed Forte de Nossa Senhora da Assunção. It was surrounded by a village that became the modern city.
• Maceió and Aracaju are modern cities (early 19th century). Portuguese settlers should found Vila Santa Madalena and São Cristóvão respectively.
• Vila do Poti > Teresina (the new city was founded in 1852 upon the older village to become state capital)
• Porto das Caraíbas > Balsas (19th century)
• Passagem > Petrolina (19th century)
• Campo Largo > Cotegipe (19th century)
• São Salvador da Bahia > Salvador (19th-20th century)
• Arraial da Conquista > Vitória da Conquista (19th century)

SE:

Spoiler :

• Vila Rica > Ouro Preto (19th century). Shares the same title with Belo Horizonte (1893)
• Campos > Campos dos Goytacazes (19th century)

On a side note, I made few changes on resources: the Gems in Diamantina becomes Diamonds and the Bananas in Sorocaba becomes Oranges (post-independence spawn).

S:

Spoiler :

• Castro (1778) shares the tittle with modern Londrina (1934)
• Vila Iguassu (former spelling) > Foz do Iguaçu (20th century)
• Lajes (1776) shares the title with modern Chapecó (1917)
• Desterro > Florianópolis (20th century)
• Passo Fundo (1827) shares the tittle with modern Caxias do Sul (1910)

CW:

Spoiler :

Obs: most of cities in the region are relatively young (some even founded in the 1990s), especially in the Amazon area. As such, during the colonial times/19th century, most of the region was territory of few cities, like Cuiabá (1719), Goiás (1729), Vila Bela (1752) and Corumbá (1778).

• Vila Maria do Paraguai > Cáceres (19th century)
• Vila Boa de Goiás > Goiás (19th century)
• Southernmost Cuiabá (1719) title is shared with modern Rondonópolis (1915).

N:

Spoiler :

Obs: this region have a similar case to the Central-West regarding the most remote areas of the Amazon. Nonetheless, there is some old cities in the Amazon river and its main tributaries.

• Arucará > Portel (19th century)
• Alcobaça > Tucuruí (19th century)
• São Vicente do Araguaia > Araguatins (20th century)
• Porto Real > Porto Nacional (20th century)
• Vila da Palma > Palmas (identical case to Teresina, however Palmas was only founded in 1989)
• São José do Tocantins > Niquelândia (20th century)
• Forte São Joaquim > Boa Vista (20th century)
• Serpa > Itacoatiara (19th century)
• São José do Rio Negro > Manaus (19th century)
• Vila Rondônia > Ji-Paraná (20th century)
• Forte Príncipe da Beira > Costa Marques (20th century)

 

[JHLee]

Um, can you work on this without opening the game? Like, with a spreadsheet or something?
I can't open the console..