[Development] Map Suggestions

[Steb]

Suggestions for Tibet
Moorland added (French color)
Gold added to represent Thok Jalung
Both incenses moved in order to free up space for both Lhasa and Shigatse, with 2 tiles in between them (so they don't have to share a first ring, my ideal locations for them are the two squares in Tibetan color, for both of them, the incenses currently on those spots were moved, the Shigatse incense moved 1NW, the Lhasa incense moved 1W...I think Tibet should have two core cities for the bigger map.

Suggestions for Korea
Moved the river above Seoul 1S, to enable Seoul and Pyongyang to both work their entire first ring. (the two squares of Korean culture are my proposed locations for them) I think this (where Seoul is 1S of its actual location) is better than having Seoul and Pyongyang choke/crowd each other, and better than trying to squeeze Pusan in. Perhaps Japan could also be shifted 1E, so that their territorial waters don't overlap so much?

Suggestions for Western North America (all of the suggestions from here to the end of this post contain 2 screenshots - 1 with the changes highlighted, 1 zoomed out so you can see how the coastline looks)
I tried a bunch of different things to fix the US West Coast, which looked like someone took a bite out of it. This is the one that I think looks best
Added tiles in yellow, removed tiles in purple
I think it looks really nice this way, much less "off" than the current rendition.

Same thing here with Cuba - added 1 tile (highlighted in yellow) for a better looking coastline/shape of Cuba.

Northern Europe
Moved Cornwall 1N
Added 2 tiles to eastern Britain for a better-looking/more accurate shape. I experimented with several different configurations for Scotland, and this is the one that I like the best.
Added 1 tile to Northern Poland to better mimic the shape of the coast (it just out about 1/3 of the way to Kaliningrad from the Oder, instead of having a distinct point, like currently in the map branch) - moved the marsh to that tile, freeing up a better spot for Gdansk, where it won't choke/crowd Warsaw as much.
I don't have a screenshot of this, but would also move the wheat in Sicily 1E, to free up space for Palermo to be built (since it is the biggest and most important city in Sicily)

Added 2 tiles to Somalia for a more accurate looking coastline - I think it looks really nice this way, and it restores the "triangle" at the tip, which is accurate to real-life geography, too

Some thoughts:
- It seems worth it to represent the Thok Jalung gold field. I think we could remove an incense resource to compensate and make Tibet not too rich. As we've discussed previously, Tibet wasn't really a producer of the kind of incense that is traded as a fancy luxury product.
- Seoul and Pyongyang really are pretty close to each other, there isn't really a way out of that. Having Seoul so far south would look silly IMO.
- Even though I doubt it's going to happen, I do like the Cuba shape far more with that extra tile.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Some thoughts:
- It seems worth it to represent the Thok Jalung gold field. I think we could remove an incense resource to compensate and make Tibet not too rich. As we've discussed previously, Tibet wasn't really a producer of the kind of incense that is traded as a fancy luxury product.

Tibet has a small core that's full of mountains, tundra, and (in my proposal) moorland. I'd rather err on the side of making them a little too rich.

- Seoul and Pyongyang really are pretty close to each other, there isn't really a way out of that. Having Seoul so far south would look silly IMO.

Having Seoul slightly south of its real life location is better than having Seoul and Pyongyang crowd each other like that.

- Even though I doubt it's going to happen, I do like the Cuba shape far more with that extra tile.

There's no reason to doubt it, Leoreth said

If it is to correct the shape of a coastline that can be discussed.

 

[Leoreth]

Even though I doubt it's going to happen, I do like the Cuba shape far more with that extra tile.

I feel like I'm being reverse-psychologied.

 

[Steb]

Having Seoul slightly south of its real life location is better than having Seoul and Pyongyang crowd each other like that.

Better for what? If it's a choice between geographical accuracy and avoiding crowded cities, I consider it better to choose accuracy.

I feel like I'm being reverse-psychologied.

Well, not intentionally!

 

[Uncle Paul]

Better for what? If it's a choice between geographical accuracy and avoiding crowded cities, I consider it better to choose accuracy.

It's better to not place cities with only 1 tile in between them if it can be avoided. In some cases, it's not avoidable (i.e. Amsterdam and Hamburg on the current map), but in this case, it is.

 

[Dracosolon]

That can be the case but here there isn't that much of interest for Seoul to gain by putting it 1S, just two island features.

 

[Steb]

Couldn’t see if we already had a suggestion for it, but I don’t think we have a copper in Zambia? I just learned that they have a province called Copperbelt, since copper mining is really important there, so seems warranted. From what I can see the copper in the region is too far east to accurately represent that. (Unless a later update changed things)

 

[Uncle Paul]

That can be the case but here there isn't that much of interest for Seoul to gain by putting it 1S, just two island features.

Allowing Seoul and Pyongyang to work their first circle is an interest.

 

[Leoreth]

Why?

 

[Temujin8k]

Allowing Seoul and Pyongyang to work their first circle is an interest.

Then allowing Cairo and Alexandria, and Ayutthaya and Angkor to work their first circles are also interests.

 

[Krieger-FS]

Couldn’t see if we already had a suggestion for it, but I don’t think we have a copper in Zambia? I just learned that they have a province called Copperbelt, since copper mining is really important there, so seems warranted. From what I can see the copper in the region is too far east to accurately represent that. (Unless a later update changed things)

Zambia actually have two Copper in the map, although they are not located precisely in the Copperbelt province. There was one already and I've moved another to it from southern Congo to open space for Musumba (capital of Lunda Empire). You can see it in the post.

Angola, Western Zambia, and Southern Congo
View attachment 638287

• Removed four Marshes in the area (highlighted in Greek Cyan). The reason is to open space for some relevant cities, such as Matamba, Moshiko and Kanyembo (the almost cut out tile in the right side of the image). They were, respectively, the capitals of Matamba Kingdom, Lunda-Chokwe Kingdom and Kazembe-Lunda Kingdoms. Additionally, it allows a larger cities in Lunda/Luba areas, which housed a surprisingly large population. Nonetheless, I’ve add a Marsh tile (in the Babylonian Purple) 1N of Musumba (capital of Lunda Empire), to represent the Upemba Depression, around which the Lunda and Luba kingdoms developed.
• Switched few Jungle to Rainforest tiles to allow settling within Kuba Kingdom lands (Nsheng and Ilebo) and more workable areas for M’banza Kongo.
• Added Kwango River near M’banza Kongo/Kinshasa: an important tributary of Congo river and makes the border between Angola and DR Congo.
• Copper and Cotton moved 1S: respectively, to open space for M’banza Kongo and Musumba.
• Iron: 1S of Nsheng, it represents the iron sources that gave a technological edge for Lunda and Luba peoples to build their empires against their neighbors. The main sources were in the Coal tile, near the Upemba Depression, so I’ve put nearby.
• Salt: 1N of Mwibele (capital of Luba Empire), represents one of their most valuable products found near Lualaba river, where salt marshes were exploited.

 

[Steb]

Zambia actually have two Copper in the map, although they are not located precisely in the Copperbelt province. There was one already and I've moved another to it from southern Congo to open space for Musumba (capital of Lunda Empire). You can see it in the post.

Oh great, thanks. I thought you might have something about resources in Zambia but I didn't find it in 5 minutes of searching. Never mind then!

 

[Uncle Paul]

Why?

Because it's best not to have cities crowd each other out too much. If it's unavoidable (i.e. Amsterdam and Hamburg on the current map, Prague and Vienna on the new map), it's better than omitting an important city, but in Korea it's easily avoidable with a little distortion of Seoul's location.
Also, this prevents China/Mongols from conquering Korea in 1 turn, assuming that roads have been built in Korea, you can currently conquer Pyongyang, you will control its first ring the turn you conquer it (Korea gets those tiles back the next turn), and you can just move your units to Seoul and take it the same turn you took Pyongyang.

 

[Leoreth]

But how are cities crowding each other when the amount of useful tiles is about the same? What is so special about the first ring specifically?

 

[Uncle Paul]

But how are cities crowding each other when the amount of useful tiles is about the same? What is so special about the first ring specifically?

Because I don't think the amount of useful tiles is about the same...if both cities can work their first ring, they can both work more tiles, since they're not competing for tiles as much. This also enables Korea to develop a larger core population in case they want to do some conquering.

 

[Dracosolon]

It shouldn't be easy for Korea to be a conqueror. And if a human player wants to try their luck, they'll have a bigger core population with one city (since it's doubled) or three (with Busan grabbing sea tiles and Japanese windmills).

 

[Uncle Paul]

It shouldn't be easy for Korea to be a conqueror. And if a human player wants to try their luck, they'll have a bigger core population with one city (since it's doubled) or three (with Busan grabbing sea tiles and Japanese windmills).

I just want Korea to benefit from the new map.

 

[DC123456789]

Spoiler :

Suggestions for Western North America (all of the suggestions from here to the end of this post contain 2 screenshots - 1 with the changes highlighted, 1 zoomed out so you can see how the coastline looks)
I tried a bunch of different things to fix the US West Coast, which looked like someone took a bite out of it. This is the one that I think looks best
Added tiles in yellow, removed tiles in purple
I think it looks really nice this way, much less "off" than the current rendition.

There's been a lot of discussion about it over the years, but the West Coast is currently shaped like that because the map is based off of the Robinson projection, not Mercator or another cylindrical projection.

 

[Uncle Paul]

There's been a lot of discussion about it over the years, but the West Coast is currently shaped like that because the map is based off of the Robinson projection, not Mercator or another cylindrical projection.

It looks odd, and seems exaggerated. It's not that important, compared to other things (like rearranging resources and terrain in Tibet so they can have 2 cities), but it's still worth looking at. Leoreth, I can make a more modest West Coast proposal if you're unhappy with this one.

 

[Leoreth]

I am actually happy with the current shape of the West Coast.