DLC 05 anticipation thread

[Ma2ge]

The current rumour du jour on the NetherNet is that Hitler will be the other leader to come...

apparently because the copyright has recently run out on good 'ol 'Dolf, they are now interested in propogating Der Fuhrer. Money is everything you know.

As I'm German I am absolutely positive Hitler won't be an official leader for the next 10 Civ-Games. And that is good. Honestly, I don't know if I could play the game if he would be included. He represents the darkest part of German history and brought great grief to the world. Fortunatelly most of the Germans today think so too and it would be a huge uproar here, quite rightly. Remember: Millions of innocent people died. I could not stand him being in the game.

 

[Hawke9]

If the improved espionage will be a thing, I'm hoping for a Pentagon wonder.

 

[gfeier]

We could have great spies. Lots of choices, from Mata Hari to Julian Assange.

 

[Katakanja]

We could have great spies. Lots of choices, from Mata Hari to Julian Assange.

What would Julian Assange's ability be? He gets one guaranteed 100% success mission, but then has to camp out inside your capital for the rest of the game consuming resources and tweeting random pictures of cats every so often?

 

[Wingednosering]

If a new great person was introduced, I'd rather see Great Diplomats. There are even more of them to choose from and they could provide a ton of interesting abilities.

- Lessen or remove warmongering penalty
- Ceasefire
- 1 deal that swings heavily in your favour
- Small, permanent diplo boost with one AI

Etc

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

If a new great person was introduced, I'd rather see Great Diplomats. There are even more of them to choose from and they could provide a ton of interesting abilities.

- Lessen or remove warmongering penalty
- Ceasefire
- 1 deal that swings heavily in your favour
- Small, permanent diplo boost with one AI

Etc

It's all fun and games till the AI uses one to swing a peace treaty heavily in their favor and you have to give up one of your major cities. Then players would complain about it.

 

[Wingednosering]

Well you could keep it from being too ridiculous. I was picturing 2:1 luxuries or great works rather than cities. Or leave the AI unequiped to use them properly...like the current state of air combat.

Could aso make them give additional envoys, congress votes or visibility with all other nations. There's a million possibilities.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Eh, putting in more great people seems to me like it would be adding things for the sake of adding things. I wouldn't mind new/balanced versions of the GP we already have, but more categories?

 

[leandrombraz]

As I'm German I am absolutely positive Hitler won't be an official leader for the next 10 Civ-Games. And that is good. Honestly, I don't know if I could play the game if he would be included. He represents the darkest part of German history and brought great grief to the world. Fortunatelly most of the Germans today think so too and it would be a huge uproar here, quite rightly. Remember: Millions of innocent people died. I could not stand him being in the game.

Wouldn't it also be censored, forcing Firaxis to launch a different or a generic leader in Germany?

Every time I see people asking for Hitler to lead Germany in Civ I remember Firaxis showing Frederick Barbarossa at Gamescom, I imagine how big of a shot in the foot that would be if it was Hitler showing up on that screen. The producer smiling and saying "Here is the Hitler, the leader of Germany in Civ VI", while Hitler talk with a friendly atitude. That would be awkward, if not ilegal. Firaxis isn't dumb enough to do that, mostly considering that Germany is an important market for Firaxis.

 

[leandrombraz]

If a new great person was introduced, I'd rather see Great Diplomats. There are even more of them to choose from and they could provide a ton of interesting abilities.

- Lessen or remove warmongering penalty
- Ceasefire
- 1 deal that swings heavily in your favour
- Small, permanent diplo boost with one AI

Etc

More mechanics that reduce warmongering or give positive diplo modifiers would be nice, though I think it should be something more significant than popping out a Great Diplomat, in the same way liberating a city is quite significant. Actually doing something that benefit that Civ and show that you mean no harm to them, that despite your differences a good relationship with you is beneficial to them. Cease fire and favorable deal I don't think is a good idea, seems like a easy way to cheesy the AI and something players wouldn't like if the AI use against them.

 

[Ma2ge]

Wouldn't it also be censored, forcing Firaxis to launch a different or a generic leader in Germany?

Every time I see people asking for Hitler to lead Germany in Civ I remember Firaxis showing Frederick Barbarossa at Gamescom, I imagine how big of a shot in the foot that would be if it was Hitler showing up on that screen. The producer smiling and saying "Here is the Hitler, the leader of Germany in Civ VI", while Hitler talk with a friendly atitude. That would be awkward, if not ilegal. Firaxis isn't dumb enough to do that, mostly considering that Germany is an important market for Firaxis.

Well, at least showing Nazi symbols like the Hakenkreuz is indeed prohibited in Germany. Actually there have been games that were censored because of that, e.g. one or two parts of the Wolfenstein serie. So, of course, just that point will be enough for Firaxis.

 

[Arianrhod]

He represents the darkest part of German history and brought great grief to the world. Fortunatelly most of the Germans today think so too and it would be a huge uproar here, quite rightly. Remember: Millions of innocent people died. I could not stand him being in the game.

I mean, I'm not really a fan of him either, but to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, 'killing a lot of innocent people' and 'bringing great grief to the world' are hardly unique traits to him. There are always lots of people in Civilization who aren't exactly squeaky-clean, as frankly there should be because the objective of Domination victories is in fact killing a lot of innocent people and bringing great grief to the world. We don't, for example, pretend the Manhattan Project did not exist -- and hell Nuclear Gandhi is an ancient meme, so great job respecting the Japanese civilian deaths there. Like, when you're actively using over two hundred thousand deaths as a joke to the point of making it your chief representation of an entirely different country, you're not really in any place to pretend you're all that much better than a base warlord.

If we're going to completely bleach history and pretend that everyone was friends with each other forever, then good luck bringing back fan-favorite Genghis. And for all the hatred I see directed at Attila, 95% of it is aimed at his 'civilization' rather than him -- so much so that I went into the ongoing leader elimination battle purely to see how quickly he'd be eliminated on that basis alone, and I was not disappointed. I use them purely as examples, and you could pretty much toss any warmonger or general here and find that death is in their job description. You don't get to be "Scourge of Europe" just by building the Hanging Gardens. Hitler just happens to represent a market that's actually important in the modern age, so it makes more financial sense to whitewash Germany's actions and pretend they never did anything wrong than to force them to acknowledge what they brought onto the world.

I don't think he'd make a great leader for a number of reasons, especially not as a primary leader for a very multi-faceted country, but at the same time I can definitely see a lot of appeal when it comes to fighting against him (which is what you're doing with leaders ~7 times as often as playing as them) -- either on principle, in re-enactments of WWII, role-playing against one of history's most villainous characters, or what have you. But he's never going to happen because it's more financially important to keep Germany's reputation afloat than to acknowledge the people they killed (as dead people cannot buy Civ VI DLC), and it's consequently easier to gloss over the Holocaust and scrub Hitler from history than to actually force them to take responsibility for what they did.

Maybe they'll do the same thing with America this time and not give us any Native American civilizations so we don't have to feel bad about our history either.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Time to drop the Hitler discussion. There's no indication that Hitler is, in any way, contemplated ever to be made part of any Civ game, much less DLC 5. Also Hitler discussion inevitably brings out the worst in some posters. So, please drop the off-topic Hitler discussion and return to the topic of this thread.

 

[leandrombraz]

A good way to return to the topic of this thread would be if some unknown achievements finally showed up in a certain game on steam... C'mon Firaxis, just do the thing.

 

[Ma2ge]

If the improved espionage will be a thing, I'm hoping for a Pentagon wonder.

And I hope defensive espionage will be improved, too. At the moment it's just setting your spies anew once in a while to prevent getting robbed or something. Not exactly fun.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

A good way to return to the topic of this thread would be if some unknown achievements finally showed up in a certain game on steam... C'mon Firaxis, just do the thing.

The Achievements have typical shown up on Tuesdays or Thursdays like the DLC releases and First Looks. So I don't see today being particularly exciting in that regard.

2kqa_b is due for an update, and that's probably the extent of what will appear today.

 

[leandrombraz]

The Achievements have typical shown up on Tuesdays or Thursdays like the DLC releases and First Looks. So I don't see today being particularly exciting in that regard.

2kqa_b is due for an update, and that's probably the extent of what will appear today.

Maybe they are so happy that today is Friday, they will just update all the stuff, get read for launch in record time and still go out for a beer. Magic things happen on Friday..

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

I'm tired of waiting. Time for another game of Fall From Heaven 2 (awesome Civ 4 mod). I wonder when the next DLC will be for that....

 

[Calyxx]

If a new great person was introduced, I'd rather see Great Diplomats. There are even more of them to choose from and they could provide a ton of interesting abilities.

- Lessen or remove warmongering penalty
- Ceasefire
- 1 deal that swings heavily in your favour
- Small, permanent diplo boost with one AI

Etc

I like the idea of Great Diplomats, but I'm not sure that these specific ideas for them would work well - maybe a three-ish turn ceasefire. Maybe something focused around envoys, or perhaps gaining permanent suzerainity of a city state regardless on envoy numbers (#1 in envoys would still get the suzerain bonus, and city state would side with them in war), or maybe generating a "trade" - i.e. free luxury and GPT - for both you and another player.

The big problem I see with game mechanics that alter diplomacy is... what does that mean in multiplayer? I've never played multiplayer Civ and I doubt I ever will, but there are a sizable number of people who do, and I can't imagine they will say "well, Joe is a huge warmonger and a definite threat to my empire, but he does have a great diplomat - so I guess we can be friends". It just seems like a game mechanic that would mean nothing outside of the confines of single player.

 

[bbbt]

The big problem I see with game mechanics that alter diplomacy is... what does that mean in multiplayer? I've never played multiplayer Civ and I doubt I ever will, but there are a sizable number of people who do, and I can't imagine they will say "well, Joe is a huge warmonger and a definite threat to my empire, but he does have a great diplomat - so I guess we can be friends". It just seems like a game mechanic that would mean nothing outside of the confines of single player.

They've implemented the entire warmongering and casus belli system that's essentially meaningless in multiplayer, so it's certainly things they've done. But I'd agree that it's better not to introduce game mechanics that only affect single player (and I think they generally try and steer away from doing so).