Do governments have the right to shoot down hijacked planes

IglooDude said:
Sorry, Tom Clancy managing to predict the methodology of a couple major events does not give credence to every Hollywood movie that comes along.

I agree. I hardly think an alien ship will appear as one did in "Earth Girls are Easy" or "The Day the Earth Stood Still", but the things that Clancy wrote or some shows portray are not that far outside the realm of possibility. In these days and times, a passenger jet, with some type of WMD smuggled onboard is a possibility one must consider.
 
IglooDude said:
Yeah, I was thinking about it, why not just charter a cargo plane so you don't have the risk of passenger discovery/involvement?

Could be a variety of reasons.

Payload. A fully fueled jet liner comes equipped with its own explosive payload. You would have to provide your own payload for a cargo plane.

Money. As EL_M pointed out, it is inifinitely cheaper to just take what you need instead of paying for it.

Paperwork. Chartering a plane means paperwork...that makes it traceable. Not too mention most people dont pay for such an item in cash, thus even more of a paper trail.
 
Hitro said:
How could they ever know that for certain before it happens? Okay, if they'd destroy it while it directly approaches the building that could be the case. But in general it is impossible to know unless the hijackers send happy radio messages telling everyone their target.
You could make contact with the plane and demand the hijackers to leave any inhabbited space. If their purpose is to take the plane to Lybia or something they'll agree, if not they won't and then you shoot them down.
 
The government has the right to go to war and utterly obliterate an entire nation if its own country is threatened, why shouldn't it have the right to shoot down a plane to protect a city or neighborhood?
 
Sorry, Tom Clancy managing to predict the methodology of a couple major events does not give credence to every Hollywood movie that comes along.

Psycos fly planes into bulidings attacking america. In the aftermath america is attacked by bilogical terrorists and Iraq is invaded totally unrelated to the initial Plan thing. Tom Clancy and Real Life
 
Of course, the plane should be intercepted by fighter jets first and commanded to land...it should be clearly obvious what the intent of the terrorist hijackers is before the plane is shot down.

But it should absolutely be shot down if the plane itself is to be used as a missile.
 
Xanikk999 said:
I still find it amazing that one of the planes on 9/11 that was hijacked and crashed was done with box cutters. The terrorists actually restrained the passengers and took control with box cutters. :rolleyes:

I have no sympathy for the wimps who did not attempt to fight back out of all the people on the plane that is disgusting. Its sad really. Its not like they had a gun if everyone just jumped them that wouldnt of happened.

Please remind us when before 9/11 a hijacking was done to obtain a plane as a weapon. Normally a hijacking is like any other hostage situation, they land in some other country demand a randsome and the passangers go on their merry way. 9/11 was an entirely different concept, that is why only Flight 93 was downed as they were the only ones who were aware of the real intentions of the hijackers.
 
VRWCAgent said:
The government has the right to go to war and utterly obliterate an entire nation if its own country is threatened, why shouldn't it have the right to shoot down a plane to protect a city or neighborhood?

The german government don´t have the right to go to war and utterly obliterate an entire nation, if it just threat us. Our constitution only allows a defensive war. (This different understanding of the right of going to war is the reason, why most of the germans are against the US-american invasion of Iraq.)

Maybe such a different point of view is the reason, why we have different opinions on the legal status of shooting down a hijacked plane...
 
VRWCAgent, the situation is different if your own citizens are in the plane.

If a plane full of Americans is streaming towards Toronto, Canada has the full right to shoot it down. But we don't have the right if there are Canadians aboard.

What funny is that it's unlikely that planes will be taken hostage as much anymore, because the hostage-takers will be afraid of being shot down (whereas before, they had an expectation of being negotiated with)
 
Preventive is defensive.

Imagine this (very dated) scenario: USSR fires a missile at USA. USA shoots it down. Who is the aggressor?
 
El_Machinae said:
VRWCAgent, the situation is different if your own citizens are in the plane.

Hey, believe me, I realize it's a terrible decision to have to make, but I can obviously see situations where it would be necessary, regardless of whose nation's citizens were aboard.
 
Exactly, and citizens are protected by the Constitution. Does your Constitution allow the proactive killing of citizens to defend the country? I would guess so, since the death penalty exists there.
 
Shoot down a few hijacked planes will ensure that hijacking will cease to be useful to any terrorist, wether for the purpose of using the plane as a guided missle or as ransom. Of course the psychological trauma of ordering such an action should the objective of the terrorists were simply for ransom is terrible.
 
Which is why fighter jets should intercept the hijacked plane at first chance and do everything in their power to prevent the jetliner from being used as a missile.
 
As much of a virtual pacifo-pinko that I am...

...I would support such things as long as every option was exhausted.

However, we should also have more robust Air Marshal forces on board those planes, so that a hijacking won't get off the launch pad to begin with.

In addition to better baggage checks, but those I can't see getting any better, to be honest.

Like I said, though i'm an almost peacemonger, I really don't think that you screw around with airplanes.
 
AVN said:
Today the German Constitutional court decided that this law violated the German constitution (it infringed the right to life and human dignity) and can't be used anymore. see BBC article.

Does the court have the final word on constitutional matters? I would hope that the German executive and legislative leaders would stand up to the court when it makes a ruling like that. I am not an expert on the German legal tradition, but in American history there are a few instances of executive and/or legislative leaders standing up to an unjust court (for instance Thomas Jefferson in some measure, mostly by rhetoric and Andrew Jackson in great masure, by rhetoric and action--and today Senator Coburn so far just by rhetoric).

In any free society it is critical that one's personal conscience be the ultimate authority and that one stands up to unjust decisions, whether they come from a panhandler, CEO, President, Congress, or Court.

Should a government have the right to shot down a hijacked plane. And in what sort of circumstances do they have that right

Absolutely. If a hijacked plane poses a danger proportionate to the loss of life in shooting it down then the civil authority has that right and not only the right but the duty, a moral imperative -- a moral imperative that goes beyond any respect owed to a court opinion.

An example of such a case might be of the hijackers on the plane communicate their intention to crash it into a nuclear powerplant such that it is certain to cause an environmental and human disaster, where perhaps ten times more people would die.

One lacuna in my opinion which I will fill is that the moral imperative does not exist when a family member, such as the executive's children or spouse is on the plane. However in such a case the executive has a moral imperative, a duty, to step down and allow succession to take place, entrusting the decision to the un-personally-encumbered successor.

The moral law of mankind precedes any laws a society constructs and so what a court or legislature may say in this particular matter is irrelevant to the affirmative obligation of the executive to protect the nation.

However a soldier, even a general, cannot act in contravention to the supreme executive. A soldier under the Commander in Chief's command must follow the chain of command unless asked to affirmatively do something which violates his moral conscience. Not acting to shoot down a plane is by definition not an affirmative action and so a soldier cannot shoot it down against the supreme executive's orders.

This does not give absolute power to the executive since the legislature (at least in the American system) is able to use the power of the purse to constrain even the military actions of the executive (for instance some Senators voted against funding of the Iraq war effort and if enough of them had voted against it, the war effort would quickly grind to a halt unless the President decides to steal some tanks from Canada). And, the court is able to without using the unconstitutional "judicial review", refuse to punish those who disobey the orders of the supreme executive. So for instance, if the court considers the Patriot Act unconstitutional, they cannot impose their opinion on the legislature or executive, but they can impose it on themselves by excluding from evidence material obtained through the Patriot Act or dismissing with prejudice any case brought with the help of the Patriot Act or after a conviction by a jury, just refusing to sentence the criminal to any sentence.

Anyway, the answer is yes when the good gained is greater than the evil suffered and it is not only a right but a duty, any opinion of any court or legislature or anyone else for that matter, not withstanding, and spurious claims that this the supreme executive (in any society) absolute power notwithstanding.
 
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