Do US Republicans want a failed state?

[Kaitzilla]

The gop has done nothing to distance itself from the bigots that flock to it for comfort and support.

In 2020 they're still obsessed with rolling back social gains, still obsessed with blaming sections of society for problems that their policies have exacerbated or created.

The party has made no effort to distance itself from these people.

There's a saying; the gop is number 1 amongst bigots, even if not every voter is bigoted they sure are popular and the go to choice for those that are.

Heh, remember when white supremacist David Duke said voting against Trump was "treason against your heritage"?

Trump refused to disavow him the day before Super Tuesday.

But after winning 5 southern states in the Republican primary, Trump disavowed him.

Ugly.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Heh, remember when white supremacist David Duke said voting against Trump was "treason against your heritage"?

Trump refused to disavow him the day before Super Tuesday.

But after winning 5 southern states in the Republican primary, Trump disavowed him.

Ugly.

"Fine people on both sides"

 

[Patine]

See, this is how i know Patine isn't reading my posts because i've even mentioned in the past that the dems are the lesser of the two evils; the problem with your deeply flawed thinking Patine is that currently there is only two parties we can vote for, a third party choice risks letting a republican in but you don't seem to understand that this is how dire our situation is over here; that the best we can do is attempt to ameliorate or assauge the potential damage rather than negate it at all.

Being constantly faced, every election, with a lesser of two evils choice wears on those with an ethical centre and real concern for their nation and establishing limits, accountability, and consequences for it's leadership. You see, there is a GREATER evil than either the Republican or Democratic Party of the United States, and that is the collective Duopoly and the corrupt and rigged system that keeps them in, as well as the plutocratic oligarchy that controls both parties. I would say the situation is too untenable to keep tolerating and suffering "the lesser evil," and getting nowhere, really. A mass, grassroots, "American Spring," or "Clean Hands Electoral Event," or other such thing should be organized by Americans - at least if they REALLY cared about their nation and future, and the rights and freedoms they always go on about protecting or reclaiming, and really aren't the subservient, brainwashed sheep that North Koreans are...

 

[aelf]

I don't know what you mean by "gamer word". That aside, thank you for stating the idea more coherently.

Set aside the "truly evil cops". Claiming that all cops are bad cops because they (as a group) allow corruption, when their higher purpose is to promote a safe and civil neighborhood and society, and they're typically successful in that, is not doing anyone any good. It is, in effect, pushing them toward the truly evil cops.

I suppose what I'm truly objecting to is lumping everyone together despite widely varying motives and intents, especially when it results in pulling everyone down to the most evil common denominator, and then hating them because of it. If one insists on everything being black and white, of course one is going to find a whole lotta black.

Strong borders, strong military, religion, low crime, low taxes, small government, rights, and balanced budgets are what right ringers have always wanted. (that last one is dying, sigh)
The Democrats have different priorities, and always accuse Republicans of being evil for not sharing them.

"outcomes you get would be dependent of your capabilities"
Ya, sounds about right.

"Is the current US a good outcome for the Republicans?"
Not really, reasonable discourse is dead now, and Democrats always win a war of emotions eventually.

Hey, I didn't bring up the question of whether Republicans are evil or not. The OP and the spirit of it, at least, set aside emotions in order to examine the issue. Yes, "failed state" and such language have negative connotations, but that is simply putting the matter in stark terms. A failed state might not be an evil outcome to some. It's undesirable to the majority of people, probably, but the invitation is for you to assess whether or not your intentions and consequent actions are bringing about that outcome.

And the timing of the post has to be considered. What's happening right now, and do you think the response the state has mounted is indicative of any level of success?

And those criteria Kaitzilla brought up. Strong military and strong religion? I suppose I can agree to those (although some like Patine clearly disagree on the second). Strong borders? An issue that is suffused with hypocrisy and that the Republicans are divided on. Low crime? Also filled with hypocrisy. Low taxes? Hmm, I suspect not really - maybe corporate taxes. Small government? Maybe if you discount the security apparatus entirely, which the Republicans are also divided on. Rights? LOL. Balanced budgets? Well, you said it.

So how much do the actual outcomes being pursued and realised overlap with those criteria that supposedly make up the Republican platform?

If you just vote Republican at the local level, I'm not sure how much of the premise of the OP applies to you. But if you're a voter who tends to vote Republican at any level because of your philosophical alignment or because of a few issues, do you want the outcome that you're getting? If not, does it make sense to continue voting Republican, whatever your intentions might be?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Being constantly faced, every election, with a lesser of two evils choice wears on those with an ethical centre and real concern for their nation and establishing limits, accountability, and consequences for it's leadership. You see, there is a GREATER evil than either the Republican or Democratic Party of the United States, and that is the collective Duopoly and the corrupt and rigged system that keeps them in, as well as the plutocratic oligarchy that controls both parties. I would say the situation is too untenable to keep tolerating and suffering "the lesser evil," and getting nowhere, really. A mass, grassroots, "American Spring," or "Clean Hands Electoral Event," or other such thing should be organized by Americans - at least if they REALLY cared about their nation and future, and the rights and freedoms they always go on about protecting or reclaiming, and really aren't the subservient, brainwashed sheep that North Koreans are...

If you think the 2 parties switching power every 4 or 8 years are bad, wait until one of them achieves total dominance.

I know what you mean about the duopoly though.
I've voted 3rd party for 12 years now after getting sick and tired of being divided and conquered by fear.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Hey, I didn't bring up the question of whether Republicans are evil or not. The OP and the spirit of it, at least, set aside emotions in order to examine the issue. Yes, "failed state" and such language have negative connotations, but that is simply putting the matter in stark terms. A failed state might not be an evil outcome to some. It's undesirable to the majority of people, probably, but the invitation is for you to assess whether or not your intentions and consequent actions are bringing about that outcome.

And the timing of the post has to be considered. What's happening right now, and do you think the response the state has mounted is indicative of any level of success?

And those criteria Kaitzilla brought up. Strong military and strong religion? I suppose I can agree to those (although some like Patine clearly disagree on the second). Strong borders? An issue that is suffused with hypocrisy and that the Republicans are divided on. Low crime? Also filled with hypocrisy. Low taxes? Hmm, I suspect not really - maybe corporate taxes. Small government? Maybe if you discount the security apparatus entirely, which the Republicans are also divided on. Rights? LOL. Balanced budgets? Well, you said it.

So how much do the actual outcomes being pursued and realised overlap with those criteria that supposedly make up the Republican platform?

If you just vote Republican at the local level, I'm not sure how much of the premise of the OP applies to you. But if you're a voter who tends to vote Republican at any level because of your philosophical alignment or because of a few issues, do you want the outcome that you're getting? If not, does it make sense to continue voting Republican, whatever your intentions might be?

People get 10% of what they want if their party wins and 0% if the other party does.

As near as I can tell, all the issues the 2 sides can agree on have already been agreed upon.

There are no more states to add or amendments to pass.

All that is left is to fight to the bitter end on the remaining binary choices that remain.
Fighting is what we are best at afterall.

Instead of burning it all down with a Trump, voters should all join a pact to vote out the incumbent by voting for the opposite party no matter what.
It maintains the duopoly, but the money flows to whichever politician can woo the convulsing beast by listening and acting better.

 

[Estebonrober]

Strong borders, strong military, religion, low crime, low taxes, small government, rights, and balanced budgets are what right ringers have always wanted. (that last one is dying, sigh)
The Democrats have different priorities, and always accuse Republicans of being evil for not sharing them.

"outcomes you get would be dependent of your capabilities"
Ya, sounds about right.

"Is the current US a good outcome for the Republicans?"
Not really, reasonable discourse is dead now, and Democrats always win a war of emotions eventually.

this is not a state. this is a social structure and its an obvious farce at this point at that. The state is the government and republicans wan to drown it in a bath tub.

These are Republicans.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/video/682162

The South is the heart of the republican party. When northern republicans show their true colors they fly confederate flags. Wake the fudge up.

 

[JPetroski]

But if you're a voter who tends to vote Republican at any level because of your philosophical alignment or because of a few issues, do you want the outcome that you're getting?

I don't think I'm getting a bad outcome. America is a place where an individual who puts forth a strong effort to make themselves as indispensable as possible to employers and their community will generally be successful despite whatever superficiality they possess. The government does a fair enough job of keeping basic services running and the streets generally safe, which is all I really want them to do. What else could I ask for?

 

[Patine]

I don't think I'm getting a bad outcome. America is a place where an individual who puts forth a strong effort to make themselves as indispensable as possible to employers and their community will generally be successful despite whatever superficiality they possess. The government does a fair enough job of keeping basic services running and the streets generally safe, which is all I really want them to do. What else could I ask for?

The problem is, a lot of employers - especially big corporate employers over small business, NGO, or, in many areas, government employers - use a LOT of tactic to minimize and diminish employee indispensability, so that they don't need to depend on specific employees, as opposed to positions, and thus have alternatives when it comes time to their employees - individually or collectively - asking for a raise or better working conditions. You must admit this is true.

 

[JPetroski]

The problem is, a lot of employers - especially big corporate employers over small business, NGO, or, in many areas, government employers - use a LOT of tactic to minimize and diminish employee indispensability, so that they don't need to depend on specific employees, as opposed to positions, and thus have alternatives when it comes time to their employees - individually or collectively - asking for a raise or better working conditions. You must admit this is true.

No one is ever truly indispensable but a very smart man once told me, "Do everything you can to be in the top 20% and avoid the bottom 20% and you'll be just fine." Epic world-changing pandemics notwithstanding, I think this is generally true. It causes some minor heart palpitations and shock waves when the top 20% depart, so a smart employer at least would want to keep them relatively satisfied (and they probably are if they're performing at that level - it's hard to have high performance without high morale).

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I don't think I'm getting a bad outcome. America is a place where an individual who puts forth a strong effort to make themselves as indispensable as possible to employers and their community will generally be successful despite whatever superficiality they possess. The government does a fair enough job of keeping basic services running and the streets generally safe, which is all I really want them to do. What else could I ask for?

Utter naivety.

Go and ask the African-American or LGBTQ community whether the government's been doing even a half decent job, you need to get out of your white, straight, cis bubble.

 

[Patine]

Utter naivety.

Go and ask the African-American or LGBTQ community whether the government's been doing even a half decent job, you need to get out of your white, straight, cis bubble.

Why can you never speak in terms of individual people, instead of absolutist, stereotyped demographic blocs? You truly cannot see the forest for the trees, and you must fence off the forest into arbitrarily divided cordons, to boot.

 

[JPetroski]

Why can you never speak in terms of individual people, instead of absolutist, stereotyped demographic blocs? You truly cannot see the forest for the trees, and you must fence off the forest into arbitrarily divided cordons, to boot.

Edit: Sorry Patine - misread who you were quoting.

 

[aelf]

People get 10% of what they want if their party wins and 0% if the other party does.

As near as I can tell, all the issues the 2 sides can agree on have already been agreed upon.

There are no more states to add or amendments to pass.

All that is left is to fight to the bitter end on the remaining binary choices that remain.
Fighting is what we are best at afterall.

Instead of burning it all down with a Trump, voters should all join a pact to vote out the incumbent by voting for the opposite party no matter what.
It maintains the duopoly, but the money flows to whichever politician can woo the convulsing beast by listening and acting better.

Ah, that's a point that I had not really considered - another defense against moral scruples: "I'm just trying to get a bit of what I want rather than nothing at all."

It doesn't really change anything with regard to the premise of the OP, but it sets up a different heuristic and the possibility that a Republican can lay the blame on the Democrats for not giving them what they want. It's akin to terrorists who hide behind human shields, state their demands, and then claim that not meeting the demands and taking action against them that result in the deaths of the human shields is the fault of the other side.

Again, not saying Republicans are necessarily as evil as terrorists, but I don't want to make the moral quandary easy.

 

[JPetroski]

Utter naivety.

Go and ask the African-American or LGBTQ community whether the government's been doing even a half decent job, you need to get out of your white, straight, cis bubble.

Let's talk about this individual. Does anyone who has spent a few years reading Cloud's posts really think the reason she is unsuccessful is because she's transgender?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Let's talk about this individual. Does anyone who has spent a few years reading Cloud's posts really think the reason she is unsuccessful is because she's transgender?

I worked multiple jobs to make ends meet, I hope you're not implying that i'm somehow lazy my friend, that would be a big mistake on your part, never mind the fact i've been denied opportunities on the basis of who i am.

I literally did as you said and i was treading water even before covid hit, so what the **** do you have to say about then then? That i didn't pull up my bootstraps enough?

 

[JPetroski]

I worked multiple jobs to make ends meet, I hope you're not implying that i'm somehow lazy my friend, that would be a big mistake on your part.

No, I'm implying that if the way you conduct yourself on these boards is reflective of the way you conduct yourself off of them, you're probably unsuccessful because of the way you interact with others, not because you're transgender.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I'm not sure if this is on topic, but Republicans actually caused a failed state situation in Florida.
The unemployment benefit system was set up to fail on purpose by the last Republican governor.
The low amount of people who actually got benefits meant a tax break for business and bragging rights for politicians.

Then when 1.1 million people tried to use it these last 7 weeks due to the pandemic, it broke down badly.
Right now, only 42% of the people have been paid unemployment benefits.
The rest are starving I guess.


In general, all the fired people probably lost their health insurance and will have to pay full price for a new policy. $_$

And all the people who refuse to go back to work for fear of dying will lose their unemployment benefits.

Between insane health care costs, an insane safety net, and a culture of freedom + rebels, the USA is going to get absolutely creamed by this virus over the long term.

 

[Patine]

I worked multiple jobs to make ends meet, I hope you're not implying that i'm somehow lazy my friend, that would be a big mistake on your part.

Can you please answer my question about your ways of referring to people in general rhetoric, debate, statements, denunciations, social commentary, etc.? Despite your claims of ideology, beliefs, and your desires in life, they come across, as a base mentality and type of viewpoint, as incredibly dehumanizing and typical of far-right-wing groups.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

No, I'm implying that if the way you conduct yourself on these boards is reflective of the way you conduct yourself off of them, you're probably unsuccessful because of the way you interact with others, not because you're transgender.

You don't know a goddamn thing, I act completely different off these boards then i do on it. I wouldn't ever speak like i do online offline because i've had my ass kicked for alot less.

This is where i come to relieve stress, having to bite my tongue in front of judgemental people like you, who think that those in unfortunate situations just aren't somehow possessing of the right "attitude" as if that even makes a difference when it comes to socio-economic status. Working as hard as i do didn't make a difference when i could barely afford my already crap living standards, when i wasn't paid enough to live of off, when you work retail and you get people like you who judge us because somehow we've failed in your eyes, you don't know anything.

Can you please answer my question about your ways of referring to people in general rhetoric, debate, statements, denunciations, social commentary, etc.? Despite your claims of ideology, beliefs, and your desires in life, they come across, as a base mentality and type of viewpoint, as incredibly dehumanizing and typical of far-right-wing groups.

Could you please leave me the hell alone. Don't quote my posts, don't tag me, don't make any comments or remarks about me going forward, conduct yourself as if i didn't exist.